PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2285, 29 July 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PBBfIS ASSOCIATION TEIBQBAM. J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, i , Thubsday, July 23. . The Council met at 2.30 p.m. ’ The Hon. E. Whitakbb informed the Hon. * P. Buckley that Messrs Seed and Batkin’s report on the South Island would bo received in a few days. The Imprest Bill was road a second and third time. The Adoption of Children Bill was read a third time by 22 to 6 votes, and tho Married Women’s Property Protection Bill was road a third time by 15 to 11. The Vagrant Act Amendment Bill and the Hawke’s Bay and Marlborough Rivers Act Amendment Bills were read a third time. The Taranaki County Council Loan BUI was read a second time. On the motion for the second reading of tho Waitara Harbor Board Loan Bill, tho Hon. G. M. Watebhousb moved that it should bo thrown out, as there would be bo security for tho bondholders. The debate was adjourned at 5 p.m., when tho Council rose. HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES. Thubsday, July 28. The House met at 2.30 p.m. PETITION. Mr Weston presented a petition from the legal profession at Christchurch complaining of tho Law Practitioners Bill, introduced by Sir Q, Grey. BBBACH OP PBITIDEGB. Mr Reeves called attention to an article appearing in that morning’s “New Zealand Times ” accusing the Qovernmentof favoritism in letting certain contracts. He asked that it should be dealt with as a breach of privilege. Mr Speight said ho proposed to put a question to the Government on the subject, and on that understanding the request with withdrawn. questions. Replying to Major Harris, The Hon. J. Hall said thai tho proposal extending the time for the use of railway return tickets on the Auckland and Waikato line to the day following their issue was one which affected the interests of railways throughout the whole colony, as the principle of return railway tickets was regulated on tho one basis throughout the colony. They would, however, consider the point, and afford such relief as they deemed practicable in tho circumstances. Replying to Mr Gisborne, The Hon. T. Dick said that it would take some months to prepare census tables showing the adult male population in each county and electoral district of the colony. Replying to Mr Andrews, The Hon. T. Dick said that Government had no power to appoint Deputy-Registration Officers, but as the office of the Registrar of Births, Deaths, and Marriages at Christchurch was deemed an eligible place, a supply of election forme would be provided for. Replying to Mr Taiaroa, Tho Hon. Major Atkinson said that Government had no interest in the question of the Hon. Captain Baillie’s alleged disqualification. It was a matter for action on the part of the Legislative Council itself, and tho law could be put into operation by that body if it thought fit. Replying to Mr Seddon, The Hon. W. Eoidbston said that Government would take stops to prevent Chinese working on goldfields without miners’ rights, as provided for by the Mines Act, 1877. Replying to Mr McDonald, The Hon. W. Bolleston said that Government had received with regret notice that a prominent member of the Waste Land Board, Auckland, had resigned. He thought he had done so under a misapprehension. Government would be guided by the law on the subject as to the question of vesting the powers and functions now vested in the Board in the County Councils of Auckland Provincial district.

Replying to Mr Eeeveg, The Hon. T, Dick said that he was not aware that Charles Hyland Tylden, Auckland Provincial District, had been bound over to keep the peace for twelve months when they appointed him to a Commission of the Peace. They had then and still had every reason for believing he was a very suitable person to hold such a commission.

Mr Reevbb gave notice that he would repeat the above question, and add that if the Government found he had been bound over to keep the peace, what action would they take under the circumstances.

Replying to Mr Macandrew, The Hon. T. Dick said that no steps had been taken for laying off any portion of the Seaoliff Reserve for Otago Industrial School purposes and that a Bill for boarding out pupils had been prepared, with the view of being submitted to Parliament. Replying to Mr Taiaroa, The Hon. W. Eollbston said that the Middle Island Native Land Purchase Commission evidence was most voluminous, and Government saw no necessity for having it printed. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. J. Hall said that Messrs Seed and Batkin’s report on the Middle Island service had only recently been received. They had not yet considered it. In all probability it would contain remarks which would make it unadvisable to place it before the House. Replying to Mr Macandrew, The Hon. J. Hall said that with the view of better protecting the seal fisheries Government had under consideration a proposal to lease sealing rights at the Snares and other islands, where these fisheries were liable to abuse. Replying to Mr Seymour, The Hon. W. Eollebton said that Government would not be disposed to remove further restrictions provided for by section 5 of the Arms Act, as to selling and purchasing fire arms, gunpowder, caps, &0., in so far as it applies to the Middle Island. NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time: —Westport Coalfield and Harbor Administration (Mr J, B. Fisher), to Amend the Gold Duty Act, to Amend the Mines Act (Mr Reeves), to Amend the Contractors’ Debt Act, 1871 (Mr Finn), the Waimate Racecourse Reserve (Mr Studholme), Fencing (Mr Bryce). NO OONBIDBSCB DEBATE. The no-confidence debate was resumed by Dr. Wallis, who complained of the unfairness of the whips on both sides in having undertaken to bring the debate to a close that night. It looked to him like partiality. They had allowed a certain latitude to members who had already spoken for addressing their constituents, and it was not fair to restrict those who had not yet spoken in that way. He conceived that the Government scheme was the best that had been brought forward. He had a better proposal to make than theirs however. What they required was unity. Let them form districts on the principle of parishes, and give them certain power. He would then transfer to them the property tax, so as to enable them to carry on operations. Alluding to the Eating Bill, he denied the statement that the Native lands had not been benefited by the Public Works expenditure. The fact was that those lands were not worth a farthing an acre until Europeans came, and European expenditure took place. If the amendment were carried Mr Ormond would be sent for, and finding that he could not form a Government, a dissolution would be granted. That was a most undesirable thing. In a few months they would go to the country in due course, and there was no good to be gained by precipitating events. But for the noconfidence issue raised he would probably have voted otherwise than ho proposed doing. He did not believe that the Government had the confidence of the country. They were a mixed lot, but he desired to see the Government kept on the Treasury benches until the end of the session. Mr Tomoana complained that tho Government had not done justice to the Maoris, and for that reason he intended to oppose them on this vote. He left the Government because he felt that it had fallen into the evil course of the previous Government, and he cautioned them that unless they wore prepared to do more substantial justice to the Maoris there would soon be three parties in the House —the Government party, the Opposition, and the Maori members would form the third party. Mr Jobes complained that the Government was strong in its centralising tendencies, and its whole aim was to legislate for the wealthy classes. In support of that he quoted from speeches made by tho Premier on tho Ballot and Electoral Bills, and he challenged him to reconcile those speeches with the assumption now put forward by him to represent the great liberal party. The local bodies through-

out the whole colony were dissatisfied with the Bills now put forward, inasmuch as these were not founded on principles of common sense. He then proceeded to criticise the Local Works Board proposal, contending that, sitting as it would in Wellington, the local bodies would be put to serious inconvenience and expense. It was a notorious fact that unless a member supported the Government . ho could not get even reasonable consideration for hie district. That evil would be perpetuated and intensified by this Board,audits tendencies otherwise would be to demoralise the House. Government took credit for having effected a retrenchment policy, but as a matter of fact it had been forced upon them by the other side of the House, and in many other respects they had attempted to sail under borrowed plumes. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. no-oonvxdknce debate.

Mr J ones continued the debate. Ho blamed Major Atkinson for taking advantage of the failure of the Glasgow Bank to aggravate the financial difficulties of the colony. He denied that there waa any danger of another Maori war, and therefore it was not necessary to maintain such a'large and expensive military force on the West Coast. The men of that force wore, he knew, guilty of moral improprieties in regard to the Natives. He strongly condemned the action of the Government towards the telegraph officers who struck, and asserted.that the circular sent to Australia to prevent the strikers getting employment was directly at the suggestion of the Premier. Gross favoritism had also been shown in the police reductions, and the Government dare not allow an enquiry into their action in the matter. The Patetere business was one of which Ministers should be ashamed. Were it enquired into, such facts would be elicited as would make even a Boss Tweed blush. Even if they were not turned out on this occasion, the time was not, he was sure, far distant when Ministers would sink into their political graves unwept, unhonored, and unsung. They would die by their own act.

Mr Pyke said that the House having so considerately waited until he had returned from his visit to the South, he felt bound in courtesy to express his views on the question at issue. The country demanded a largo measure of reform in the direction of local government, and a large extension of power to the local bodies. At present County Councils had powers bub little larger than pariah vestries. Otago had fought gallantly against abolition, but had accepted the new institutions most loyally. The burdens of the province had descended upon the County Councils, but no means were given to sustain them. People had been anxiously looking for a remedy for the great evils existing, but they were grievously disappointed with the Government proposals. There was discontent everywhere, and on every side a demand for reform. He denied that Ministers were entitled to credit for the improved state of the public finances. If their treasury balance were larger, it had been made so by what he must term public robbery and violence. Such, for instance, was the enforcement of a ten per cent, income tax on the Civil Service, and the deprivation of local bodies of the funds formerly at their disposal, and which had been solemnly guaranteed to them. The result of that was, that the public works of the districts were knocked on the head, and the trade and commerce otherwise paralysed. Then again, he denied that the Native mind had been pacified. They were as little satified as the Europeans, and their representatives were unanimously opposed to the Government and its policy. Unless funds were provided for carrying out the functions of the local bodies, then Government would have to take upon themselves the control of local government, and administer the affairs by clerks from Wellington. The measures now before them were precisely the rejected measures of last session, measures rejected on that occasion with scorn. The proposal to rate Crown lands was a mere subterfuge for the paying of the subsidies out of consolidated revenues, instead of taking them out of the land fund. The Bill as a whole was utterly worthless. He next alluded to the Boads Construction Bill. It simply meant an attempt to govern the whole country and its affairs from Wellington. The country could not and would not submit to this. Their aim ought to be not centralisation but decentralisation. That was the expressed and determined will of the people. He was not going to propose any policy or scheme. The Government was placed on those benches to do that work. He did not opine that the country would over go back to provincialism. What they required was an extension of the counties scheme, with increased powers and means. Referring to the amendment, he said that he was not there to listen to any side issue depending on it. The threatened dissolution had no terror for him. He was not there to express confidence in Mr Ormond. What he was there to do was to express no confidence in the Government as constituted. Then again, an attempt had been made to intimidate by the threat that there would be no Redistribution of Seats Bill. He did not believe, even although there was no dissolution, that they would get redistribution. If the Government meant honestly in this matter, he asked why was not that Bill, as also the Railway Construction Bill, before them. Government had had a ten months’ recess, and when they were called together some few trifling measures were cast down to enable them to fight over while the real business was kept back until all hope of getting it passed this session was out of the question. He would vote for the amendment, leaving those who condemned the measure but refused to vote for the amendment to reconcile their conduct with their conscience. Even although the amendment was not oanied, he was sanguine that this discussion would be the means of compelling the ignominious abandonment and withdrawal of the Government measures, and in that case this discussion would not have been in vain. If the Opposition were not strong enough to turn Ministers out, they could at least perform their legitimate function of preventing them doing mischief. If those measures were not withdrawn, as he had stated, there would be little prospect of the session closing this side Christmas. Mr Sbddon said that there was too much government. They had some 800 governments in the colony, and they had far too little common sense. They were surrounded on every hand by evidence of misrule, evidence of incapacity, and other evidence to show that they were not faithful to the trust reposed in them by their constituents, and the sooner they went to the country and allowed the electors to return men fit to do the business properly the better. In 1879 the amount administered by the borough councils was £1,200,000, and the expense of that administration amounted to £300,000. Such a state of matters was utterly absurd. In Westland the amount was £51,000, and the expense of administering that fund £12,000. Such being the case, it was no wonder that they could not find money for needed public works. He condemned the property tax, and denied the statement made by the Treasurer that it had been contributed freely. They had collected it with their hands as it were to the throat of local industry. Ho insisted that mining machinery ought to have been exempted from its operations. He propounded a scheme for local government, based on the proposal that the colony should be subdivided into local districts, with only one local governing body called the local council, administering all local matters —police, education, surveys, railways, prisons, mines, and justice excepted ; the boundaries of these districts to be fixed by commission ; the present provincial districts to bo subdivided into five ridings, with power to administer waste land matters ; the members of the Board to bo elected by the ridings. Referring to tho Bills mnder consideration he said he supported the rating proposal, but found fault with the Boado Construction Bill. Under existing circumstances he thought it would be unfair to stop borrowing. Ho would give his vote with the view of sending the House to the country. He would therefore vote for tho amendment.

Mr J. B. Fisheb regretted that the Go. vernment had not stated its views after the lengthened debate that had taken place. At the outset they showed more anxiety on the matter. Ho could only account for it on the plea that they kept the debate going until they had manipulated members and secured a majority. The question as he recognised it was centralism against decentralisation. The Bills before them wore of a centralising tendency, and as such ho looked upon them us unsatisfactory. The county system was built in a day, and although he did not desire to too it swept away, still he thought that it required reorganising. Its defects were a want of power and a want of money. The best thing ho could boo was for the Govern-

ment to take the stamp duties, property tax, and - customs, leaving the rest of the taxation to be levied by the counties. He would give them power to make laws affecting municipal matters, and strike such rates as they could bear. He would also be in favor of the districts electing judges, magistrates, and justices of the peace, also establishing these Courts. They were able to do this quite as well as the Government. He had seen drunkards, gamblers, &0., occupying judical benches, and on representations being made to the Government the onus of sheeting home the offence was left to devolve on the district. He knew a Magistrate over head and ears in debt, whose dishonored bills had been exhibited in the shop windows, and whoso very beds were mortgaged. Such men would be better loft to be dealt with by the districts themselves. The Bating Bill was a small measure, and otherwise paltry in its proposals. The exceptions re Crown lands and property, was a defect in the Bill. If the Government buildings and wharves in Wellington were excepted, why not those of Dunedin and Christchurch. Railways exemption was also a mistake. In the classification proposed to be made in the Crown lands there was no reason or principle of sound sense. The Boads Construction Bill was one of the most vicious proposals ever brought before a Parliament. It simply meant that the Treasurer would exercise the whole controlling power. The Government could shield itself behind the Board, while in reality the Board was the Government. The motto might well be bribery and corruption, for that was what the Board would kmount to. The objectionable system of lobbyism and buttonholing Ministers for money for public works would be greatly aggravated by the proposal now before them. Ho deprecated the conduct of those who objected to the measures, but avowed their intention of voting against that conviction to save the Government from the probable accession of Sir G. Grey to it. Considering the incomplete state of the railways, they paid well. The tendency of the present Government was to put the drag on, and not complete these works. He believed that they had had on the drag long enough, and the time had come for them to go ahead a little. No company would undertake these lines unless they expected to make something out of them. In that case it would be better for the colony to make the linos and net the profits, which otherwise will go to the companies. In a few years the Government will bo glad to purchase these railways, and that at enormous profits. Alluding to re-distribution, he de nounced the excuses made for not having that measure brought down before this as being false and unfounded. He was inclined to think that the Government had everything to lose by a new Representation Bill, and the Opposition everything to gain. So strongly was he convinced of that, that although the amendment might be lost, he thought they would go to the country without this Bill. He defended Mr Ormond against the accusation made against him of having deserted his party under circumstances amounting to a surprise. He would vote for the amendment. He believed that the Government had a majority from having secured doubtful members. They would hear no more of their Bills, as they intended withdrawing them. The question was then put that the Bill be now read a second time, and the House divided. The following is the division list: — Ayes, 41. Messrs Allwright Messrs Mason Atkinson McOaughan Bain Murray Beetham Pitt Bowen Richardson Brandon Bolleston Bryce Bussell Bunny Saunders Oolbeok Seymour Dick Shanks Sir W. Pox Stevens Messrs Pulton Stndholme Gibbs Sutton Hall Swanson Hirst, S. Trimble Hurst, W.J. Wakefield Hursthouse Weston Johnston Whitaker Kelly Whyte Kenny Wright Levin Nobs, 37 Messrs Andrews Messrs Montgomery Ballance Moss Barron Ormond Brown Pyke DeLautour Beeves Pinn Beid Pisher, J. B. Seddon Pisher, J. T. Sheehan George Shrimski Gisborne Speight Sir G. Grey Tsiaroa Messrs Hamlin Tawhai Harris Te Wheoro Hutcheson Thomson Jones Tole Levestam Turnbull Lundon Wallis Maoandrew Wood McDonald Paxkb. —Ayes—Messrs McLean, Oliver, Moorhouse, Collins. Noes -Messrs Stewart, Bastings, Tomoana, Shephard. Mr Lundon stated that having voted with his party against the Bill, he would now, for the benefit of his constituents, vote for the Bill. Mr Babbon hoped if the Bill were read a second time its provisions would be considerably altered in committee. The Bill was road a second time. The Hon. Major Atkinson moved it be committed to-morrow fortnight. Mr Dk Lautoub asked if this was an indication that the Bill was to be withdrawn. If so they should say so at once and not waste further time. Mr Moss and Mr Speight spoke to the same effect. Mr Sbddon moved—“ That it be committed to-morrow week,” He should now support the Bill. After some further discussion, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that of course the Opposition always knew better how to conduct the Government business than the Government did. As long as they wore on those benches, however, they intended to conduct their business their own way. The Bill was ordered to be committed tomorrow fortnight. The House rose at 12.30.