PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2271, 13 July 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[FBBBB ABBOOIATION TELEGBAM.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, July 12. The Oounoil met at 2.30 p.m. The ImDrest Supply Bill, Otago University Reserves Vesting Bill, and Hawke's Bay and Marlborough Rivers Aot Amondment Bill (from the Lower Homo), The Alienation of Land Facilitating Bill (Hon. F. Whitaker) and the Legalieing of the Adoption of Children Bill (Hon. G. M. Waterhouse) were road a first time.

Beplying to the Hon. Oolonol Brett, The Hon. F. Whitakkb said that a verdict of accidental death had not been returned when a boy was shot under circumstances not accidental, at tho Thames. The evidenco showed that the verdict was a proper one.

Beplying to the Hon. W. Wood, Tho Hon. F. Whitakbb said that Government did not intend to introduco a Bill to alter the jurisdiction of tho District Court to £2OB, or allow the Supreme Court to try cases to that amount by District Court rules. By the ond of the month the final report of the Judicature Commission would be received, and then tho whole question would be open to consideration. On the motion for the second reading of tho Auckland Beservos Exchange and Exchange of Trust Bill, tho Speaxbb ruled it a private Bill, and referred it to tho joint committee on Bills. On the Hon. W. Robinson's motion, after a short debate, it was ogreed that in the opinion of the Council the fares and freights on the railways should, so far as practicable without entailing loss, be so adjusted as to enable tho lines to compete with outside carrying companies. The Port Chalmers Cemetery Bill was briefly disousfed on the motion for the seoond reading, and the debate was adjourned. At 4 p.m. tno Council roße. HOUSE OF BEPRESENTATIVES. Tubsday, July 12. The House met at 2.30 p.m. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr McDonald gave notice of motion affirming the desirability of the funotions of Waßte Land Boards being vosted in the County Councils. Mr Andbbws gave notice of motion in favor of holding next session in Ohristohurob, and for an address to the Governor to place a sufficient sum for the purpose on the estimates. Mr Bain gave notice that he would ask if the Government intended to provide for the resumption of nominated emigration. THE MAOBI PBIBONBBS. The Hon. J. Hall laid on the table a despatch from the Governor to the Seoretary of State relative to the detention of the Maori prisoners. He explained that there were other despatches besides that prodnoed, which Government considered it would be detrimental to the publio interest to make public at present. QUESTIONS. Beplying to Mr Shanks, The Hod. W. Bolleston soid that the land known as Otara block had boen withdrawn consequent upon the construction of the Edendale Railway, and that three months would have to elapse before it could be disposed of. Steps, howover, had been taken in that direction. Plans had boen prepared to be submitted to the Lccal Waste Lands Board, and a portion of the land would be disposed on the deferred payments system at the upset prioo of 30s per acre, the remainder being disposed of for cash payments. Beplying to Mr Stewart, The Hon. J, Hall said that Gsvernmenfc had entered into an agreement with the Bay of Islands Coal Company, Limited, but doubts hod arisen as to when the same should be carried out, and the opinion of the law officer was being taken on the point. Beplying to Mr Kelly, The Hon. T. Dick said that Government did intend to equalise tho salaries of gaol officials throughout the colony. Beplying to Mr Beed, The Hon. W. Rollbstoic said that in the present state of the case Government considered it unwise to reduoe the price of moat of tho rural land on the Weat Coast, as recommended by the Wostland Land Board, or otherwiie unduly stimulate the disposal of waste lands in auriferous country.

Replying to Mr Sutton, The Hon. T. Dick said that Government had not paid the whole of the cost of the Wellington Hospital; £37,000 had been voted by the House from time to time, and about £IO,OOO came from the Hospital Trust Fund. As to furnishing, the House had voted £ISOO, and the romainder of tho money which it had oost had been found by the trust. As to maintenance, the whole coat h&d only devolved on the Government when the subsidies were abolished. Most of the other hospitals were in the same position. Fro* viously, Government had Riven £1 for £l. Replying to Mr Pitt, The Hon. J. Hall said that although not prepared to give a decided answer on the point, he had no doubt that satisfactory arrangements would be made, authorising railway guards on the Nelson railway line issuing passenger tickets available for the whole of the intended journey. Replying to Mr Jones, The Hon. W. Rollbbton said that he believed the Mooraki Bush Reserve had been granted to half-castes, in virtue of the Middle Island Half-castes Lands Grants Act.

Replying to Mr Jones, The Hon. T. Diok said that so far as Government was awaro the claims of the enumerators engaged in the late census in the Waitaki county had been paid. HEW BILIO. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—For the Reduotion of Charge for Miners' Rights; to Amend the Education Act 1877 (Mr Pyke); for the Establishment and Management of a High Bchool at Rangiora (Mr Bowen) ; for the Establishment and Management of a High School at Akaroa (Mr Montgomery) ; to extend the Parliamentary Franohise to Women (Dr Wallis) ; the Armed Constabulary Act 1867 Amendment (Mr DeLautour); the Gisborne Harbor Board (Mr McDonald) ; Waimakariri Harbor Loan (Mr Bowen). LICENSING BILL. The Licensing Bill was recommitted for the consideration of clauses 12, 22 to 28 inclusive, 30, 31, 32, 37, 54, 81,122, 126, 137, 140,141, 194, and 218. Oa olause 12 Mr Richabdson moved that it bo made to read " five persons to be a lioeneing committee to be elected triennially " instead of " elected annually." The House divided on the question thut the clause as printed be retained. Ayes, 39; noes, 34, Clause 27 —Mr Rbid moved that subsection 5, providing that unmarried females may be holders of licenses, be struck out. Mr Andbewb moved that it be made to road "any widow " instead of "unmarried" woman. The sub-section as printed was passed. Clause 28, providing against any licensee being interested in more than one license. Mr Mtjebat moved that the words licensed publican be made to read " person." The question was put that the clause pass as printed. Ayes, 41; noes, 24. Mr Bastings moved that it read, no publican shall havo any beneficial interest, "Except aB a partner in one firm," in more than one liconse. The House divided—Ayes, 46; noes, 20. The amendmont was carried. On the question being put that the clause aB amended stand part of the Bill, the motion was negatived on the voices, and the whole clause was struck out accordingly. On clause 29, Mr Russell moved that the "club license " be struck out. The question was put that it stand as printed. Ayes, 37 ; noes, 18. The House adjourned at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. Tho House resumed at 7.30. Progress was reported on the Licensing Bill. ministebial statement. Tho Hon. Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the Crown and Native Lands Rating Bill. In doing so, he wished to state the views of the Government on the whole question cf local self-government, which, he believed, was agitating the mindi of members a great deal more than il was the minds of tho country. He did not intend to press the second reading of the Bill that night. The first difficulty in the question was that no two members seemed agroed as to what local government was. Thus Sir G. Groy wanted the ro-establishment of provincialism, not local government, while Mr Wood's desire was for the establishment of sovereign states with federal government, and

Mr Ormond wanted, not local governmont, but something between local government and general government, and Mr Murray wanted something else. None of them touched the real question of local government. If members wanted something else, they should say what it was, and call it by its proper name, not miscall it local governmont. The Government held that the country had got local government already. If the people were consulted, counties and Eoad Boards would remain the local government of the country. What the couutry desired was a simplification of what they already possessed, its extension in certain directions, and sufficient funds to work with. He.Qenied the assertion frequently made that local government had disappeared with the provinces, and all local administrative powers had been centred in Wellington. Ho held in his hand n return of all the local powers so contred. Of all the administrative provincial Acts only twenty were now administered from Wellington, and of thoßO thirteen must, under any circumstances, be ao administered as of general application. Of the other seven four might with advantage be dealt with locally. These were—Animal Protection, Licensing, Cemeteries, and Auctioneers. The othors were Land, Negleoted Children, and Bankrupts. The remaining Acts were eithor administered locally or jointly, and must necessarily bo so. Instead of oontralising the Government had decentralised and were decentralising administration as far as possible. They had given looal bodies many powers formerly centralised in the provinces. As to Mr Ormond'b allegation that grievances had no remedy, it was the first duty of that House to remedy all grievances, and if they did not do it they should do. They could not hand over the duty to an inferior body. He reviewed at length tho present constitution of both general and local governing bodies. Tho first question was were all these bodies nocessary; could they not be amalgamated and made more efficient. He thought that very little good could be done by abolishing any of the existing bodies. Thero was great difficulty in getting competent men to administer affairs. It was, therefore, better to get men who understood a special subjeot, and who were willing to give up their time to deol with those subjects only. This was the case with Biver Boards, Harbor Boards, Education Boards, tea. There was no leisure class here able to give up time to large bodies dealing with all theso subjects. As to Waste Lands Boards, ho had no great love for them, and Government had it in contemplation to abolish them, and to consult County Councils on all questions affecting land within the counties. As to boroughs, that looal government was working very satisfactorily, although they, perhaps, wanted more money. As to County Councils and Road Boards no two persons seemed agreed as to what should be dono. In some places the county did the work and in some the Boad Boards, but in no case had they been asked to join two counties. If the ratepayers wished union of this kind they would effect it. One point on which all these bodies were agreed was a desire to get more money. There was still a feeling abroad that money oould be obtained in some other way than out of the pockets of the ratepayers. They must recognise the fact that there was no other way of getting money than out of their own pockets. This was the view en which the Government sohemo of local fi nanoe was founded. It was founded not oa partnership or the land fund, but on the principle that all obtained from the land should be expended on the land. Ho repeated that the scheme would supply all the wants of the local bodies. If the Opposition would not accept the scheme they should in duty to the country bring down some other proposal to meet the necessities of the country. He was prepared to fight for hia own scheme. Government held lhat every facility should be given for counties amalgamating and for merging Boad Boards. They proposed to take power to delegate to councils all powers of administration under the local or general Acts, which could be delegated safely, also to give power to counties to levy the rates for Boad Boards, and where the Boad Boards desired it, to spend the money for them on definite works. They proposed also to give County Councils powers now exercised by the Government as to Boad Boards boundaries, and until the property tax valuation roll was available, to allow existing valuation rolls to be used with annual amendments. Then as to Boad Boards, Government proposed to introduce an Act for the simplification of Boad Board machinery, especially in regard to elections for which the Local Elections Act was too cumbersome. This would be permissive. Extended power for merging would also be given to Boards. No portion of a county should be outside of Boad Boards, and as far as possible road districts should be eleotoral districts of the county. As to Hospital and Charitable Aid Boards, he considered them absolutely necessary, and that tho districts must necessarily be large, in order to provide suitable buildings and medical aid. Unless they were to have a poor law administered by officials, they would require these Boards, consisting of the people doing tho work for love, and administering local contributions. He believed these proposals would meet all legitimate demands for local self-government.

Sir G. Gbbt considered that the Government had arrived at a lame and impotent conclusion to satisfy the wants of 500,000 people. Ho contended that no real local government now existed in New Zealand. The way votes in local districts were proportioned to property rendered real local government impossible, and for this the Government proposed no remedy. He denied that there was no other way of getting money than out of the people's pookets. There were other means whioh could easily be got at, and which the House, he was sure, would got at sooner or later. He had been taunted about not really meaning to introduce a Local Government Bill, but the only hint he ha i yet given on the subject had been eagerly seized on by the Government, and that was as to the rating of Native land and the method of collecting the rates. The Government had, he was glad to say, taken his suggestion. His Bill was now in the hands of the printer. He wa not afraid to show bis hand. All his cards were the property of the people of New Zealand, and it was for them to say how they were to be played. There should be large local bedies constituted, taking in the whole counties and boroughs, and then full powers should be given to the people in thoße districts to determine the form of their own administration of local institutions, so as to best meet their own requirements. All the present woes of the people arose from the abolition of provincial institutions without any commensurate substitute being provided. The peorie should be given full power to manage their own affairs, and determine the form of institutions best calculated to meet their own necessities. A very short measure could provide a complete system of self-government. Ample powers for making by-lawß should be given. The geographical formation of the colory rendered such a system necessary and desirable. The looal bodies should have power to make by-laws on almost all subjeots on which the provinoes used to legislate. While he would not give them power to legislate *on external or internal defenoe, he thought the volunteer force might be placed under local control. He thought the volunteer force was likely to become the finest force in the world. They should not be allowed to pass by-laws about telegraphs and one or two other matters, but should have power to make all regulations for mining purposes. He denied that the House oould ever do justice to the whole colony in redress ing grievances. It could not sit long enough or bear tho expense. Power to redress grievances promptly and on the spot should be given to local bodies to establish Courts having large powerß, but inferior to SupremeiOourts. Powei to appoint their own judges should be given, and thus justice be brought to each man'sdoor, and then they would no longer have the Bench occupiod by Judges actuated by strong party feelings. By reducing the work of the Central Government, the House could be reduced one-half, and the other Chamber found to be a redundant blessing, with which they oould dispense. There would be plenty of money available for local bodies. Tho surplus revenue, after provision for general purposes, should be divided amongst the local bodies in proportion to population. Hates on Crown and Native lands should be imposed by local districts, and be expended by them, the rate being the same as on all other property. Largo landed endowments should be granted to the local bodies, and rendered inalienable. In time the rents from these should free the people from all taxation and provide for all their wants. Future generations would bless them if they did this, but tho Government proposed a oontinuance of a system of legislation belonging to an expiring civilisation, instead of welcoming the new civilisation which was dawning on the earth.

Mr McLean said he would like to see Sir G. Grey's Bill, and consider the whole matter more fully before going on with tho debate. He accordingly moved its adjournment. This was, after some discussion, agreed to, the debate to be resumed at 7.30 on Tuesday evening next. LICENSING BILL. The Licensing Bill was further considered in committee. On clause 29, Mr Pitt moved the restoration of the bottle license. The motion was negatived on a division by 38 to 31. The following is the division list: — Ayeß, 31 —Messrs Baliance, Barron, Brown, Collinß, DeLautour, Dick, Finn, Fisher, J. B. (Buller), Gibbs, Sir G. Grey, Messrs Hall, Hursthouso, Levistam, Lundon, Maoandrew, McLean, Mobs, Oliver, Pitt, Pyke, Beeves, Beed, Bolleston, Shanks, Shepherd, Shrimski, Stewart, Tolo, Trimble, Turnbull, Wood. Noes, 38—Messrs Allwright, Andrews, Bain, Bryce, Bunny, Colbeck, Fisher, J. T. (Heathcote), Sir W. Fox, Messrs Fulton, George, Hamlin, Johnston, Jones, Kolly, Lovin, Mason, McDonald, Montgomery, Murray, Ormond, Bichardson, Saunders, Sheehan, Speight, Stevens, Studholme, Sutton, Swanson, Taiaroa, Tawhai, To Whooro, Thomson, Wakefield, Wallis, Weston, Whitaker, Whyte, Wright. Mr Oliver moved that the New Zealand wine license be struck out.

The question was put, that the words " New Zealand " stand part of the clause : —Ayeß, 33; noes, 32.

The following is the division list: — Ayes, 33 —Messrs Atkinson, Bain, Balance, Beetham, Colbeck, Collins, DeLautour, Dick, George, Gibbs, Sir G. Grey, Messrs Hall, Hamlin, Harris, Hursthouse, Johnston, Levistam, Lundon, McLean, Ormond, Pitt, Russell, Sheehan, Sutton, Swanson, Tawhia, Tole, Trimble, Wakefield, Wallace, Whitaker, Whyte. Noes, 32 Messrs Allwright, Andrews, Barron, Bastings, Bryco, Bunny, Finn, Fisher, J. B. (Buller),"Fisher, J. T. (Heathcote), Sir W. Fox, Messrs Jones, Kelly, Levin, Mason, McDonald, Montgomery, Oliver, Pyke, Beevec, Beid, Bichardson, Saunders, Shanks, Shepbard, Shrimski, Speight, Stewart, Studholme, Thomson, Turnbull, Weßton, Wright. Colonel Thimble moved that the clause be amended to road "New Zealand grape wine license."

The motion was negatived on tho voices. Mr Stewabt propoeed tJ add, as a subsection, " Bottle licenses in such districts as they at present exißt." The motion was carried by 36 to 25. The following is the division list:— Ayes, 36—Messrs Baliance, Barron, Beetham, Brown, Colbeck, Collins, De Lautour, Dick, Finn, Fisher, J. B. (Buller), Gibbs, Harris, Hursthouse, Johnston, Levistam, Lundon, Macandrew, Moss, Oliver, Pitt, Pyke, Beeves, Beid, Bolleston, Shanks, Sheehan, Shephard, Shrimski, Stewart, Swanson, Tawhai, Tole, Trimble, Tutnbull, Wallis, Whyte. Noes, 25—Messrs Allwright, Andrews, Bryce, Bunny, Bain, Sir W. Fox, Messrs George, Hall, Jones, Kelly, Levin, Mason, McDonald, Montgomery, Ormond, Russell, Saunders, Speight, Stevens, Studholme, Button, Thomson, Wakefield, Whitaker, Wright. Clause 30—Mr Tubnbull moved the extension of hours from ten to eleven o'olook for ordinary licenses. The Hon. T. Dice opposed, pointing out that the hours oould, at the option of the licensing committee, be extended to twelve o'clock.

The motion was negatived on the voices and the clause passed as printed. On Clause 37, Mr Bastings moved that the words requiring payment of an additional fee for the extension of the license to twelve o'clock be struck out.

The motion was negatived. Mr Wbbton moved that the fee be £2 instead of £lO.

The motion was negatived. Mr Bastings moved the omission of the sub-section requiring the payment of an additional fee for extra bars.

The oommittee divided on the amendment, whieh was negatived, and tho clause was retained as printed by 33 to 26. Tho following is the division list:— Ayes, 33—Messrs Andrews, Brandon, Bryce, Banny, Colbeck, Collins, DeLautour, Diok, Finn, Fisher, J. T. (Heathoote), Sir W. Fox, Messrs Fulton, Hall, Johnston, Jones, Kelly, Mason, McLean, Montgomery, Murray .Oliver, Saunders, Shephard, Shrimski, Speight, Swanson, Te Wheoro, Thomson, Trimble, Wallis, Whitaker, Whyte, Wright. Noes, 26 Messrs Allwright, Baliance, Bastings, Beetham, Gibb, Hamlin, Harris, Hursthouse, Levistam, Levin, Lundon, MoDonald, Moss, Pitt, Pyke, Reeves, Reid, Russell, Sheehan, Stevens, Stewart, Sntton, Tawhai, Tole, Turnbull, Weston. Clause 64, "Licensing committee may of its * own motion take cognisance of objections."

Dr Wallis thought this should be struck out, as it gave power to refuse any existing lioenie without assigning any reason or granting any compensation. Tho amendment wae not pressed, and the clause was amended, on Mr Sheehan's motion, to provide that not less than seven days' notioe should be given. Olartse 80 —lt was proposed to strike out subsection 4, allowing renewals to be refused if the house was not required in the neighborhood, or was near a church or school, or likely to disturb the quiet of a place. The amendment to strike out the whole sub section was withdrawn, and a proposal by Major Habbis to omit the words relating to places of publio worship, schools, and hospitals, was agreed to, and the clause as amended passed. Clause 108, license fee subsection —Mr Ptzb moved to insort the words "having a population of 1000 persons " after the word borough. Mr Babbon suggested that the number should be 500.

Mr Mubbay moved that the fixing of the amount of the license in each case should be left to the local body receiving the fee.

Mr Oliyeb said this question was so important, and the hour so late, that he moved that progress be reported. Tho motion was agreed to, and the Hones rose at 12 45.