PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2255, 24 June 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PBBSS ASSOCIATION TBLBGBAM.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thubsday, June 23. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. In reply to the Hon. R. Hart, The Hon. E. Whitakbb said that the question of amending the Property Tax Act was now under consideration. A Bill would be probably brought in remedying the defects, among others possibly settling tho question of the liability of persons like Mr Tollemache. The Hon. F. Whitakbb informed the Hod . M. Holmes that a Fencing Bill would be brought in if there was any ohance of getting it through. If otherwise, a temporary Validation Bill for Provincial Acts could be passed. The Hon. F. Whitakbb informed the Hon. N. Wilson that a letter had been received from Sir J. Vogel of such a nature that it had been returned to him. The Hon. N. Wilson then carried a motion that all correspondence should be presented. On the Hon. F. Whitakbr's motion, goldfields and mines and Native affairs committees were appointed. The Hon. Dr. Mbnzieb moved that Government should enquire as to the practicability of passenger steamers carrying electric lights to be used to reveal danger. After a short debate, the motion was carried. On the Hon. M. Holmes' motion, a committee to inquire into the rabbit nuisance was appointed. The Native Lands Frauds Prevention Bill, and tho Native Succession Bill were read a second time, with a brief discussion, and referred to the Native affairs committee. The Council adjourned at 4.15. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, Juke 23. The House met at 2.30 p.m.

questions. Replying to Mr Richardson, The Hon. J. Hall said that field and travelling allowances to cadets and junior ofEoers of the Public Works Department had been withheld for the past three months in consequence of a much-needed alteration being made in the regulation affecting suoh matters. These amended regulatiens had now been completed, and the allowances would be paid without further delay." Replying to Mr Sutton, The Hon. J. Hall said that Government had under consideration what regulations should be made providing certain holidays for railway employes without stoppage of pay. Replying to Mr Stewart, The Hon. Major Atxinron said that when it could be dispensed with fresh surveys were not required in cases whore part of a block of land included in a certificate of title under the Land Transfer Act is transferred or otherwise dealt with. As a rule, however, it was not desirable, to register plots of land without being surveyed. However, he would make further enquiries, with the view of affording as much relief as possible compatible with security of title. Replying to Mr Stewart, The Hon. W. Johnston said that Government had not communicated with the Governments of any of the Australian colonies desiring them not to employ telegraphio officials dismissed or retired from the service of this colony. The names of certain parties who had taken a prominent part in the recent strike were, however, reported to the telegraph departments of those colonies. Replying to Mr George, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that to make further improvements in the entrance to Kaiparo harbor a lighthouse would be required. He was unable to say when a lighthouse would be erected, but it was one of a number of similar works at present under consideration. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. W. Rollbston said that under the Act of 1873 it was competent for the Government to reserve land on whioh gold had been found, and that Government did not see the necessity for further legislation on the subject. Replying to Mr Fulton, The Hon. T. Dick said that a Bill was in preparation authorising the boarding-out of children committed to reformatories or industrial schools, and if time permitted it would be brought down this session. Replying to Major Harris, The Hon. J. Hall said that enquiries would be made as to the necessity for the appointment of a station-master at Manurewa station, Waikato railway. EIBBT HEADINGS. In committee, a Bill to enforce and collect the duties on the estates of deceased persons, was introduced and read first time (Hon. Major Atkinson), and also a Bill to declare lands of the Crown and Native lands rateable property (Hon. Mojor Atkinson). FINANCIAL STATEMENT. The Hon. Major Atkinson said that he proposed to-morrow (Friday) eight days, or at latest'on the following Tuesday, to be able to make his financial statement, and that on the first sitting day thereafter he would explain fully the views of the Government on the matter of local government. SECOND BEADINOS. The following Bills were read a se<"<nd time: —Auckland: Exchange of Synagtyues Site (Mr Speight). Wellington : Queon's Wharf and Stores Sale (Mr Levin). Port Chalmers Cemetery Bill (Mr Macandrew). Mr Shbimski moved the second reading of the Oamaru Harbor Board Bill. Mr McLean opposed the Bill. The land might be required for other purposes. It might prove to be auriferous, and if dealt with under this Bill, great loss would be sustained by the colony. All he desired to do was to warn the House as regards the dangers of the step proposed to be taken. Mr Macandbew supported the Bill. The Hon. W. Rollbston said that although not personally in favor of the Bill he had deferred to the opinion of the Waste Lands Board. The motion was carried. LOCAL GOVBBNMBNT. Mr Mubbay moved —" That in the opirion of this House local government is conducted under great disadvantages, (1) from defects in the system, (2) from the local funds for the payment of rates t? effect local improvements being absorbed by general government taxation, (3) from the counties having been deprived of the 20 per cent, of land fund (except in the case of New Plymouth), and that the Government be requested to bring in a Bill this session to remedy the above causes of complaint, and others whioh may be established during the debate upon this resolution." He had been induced to bring the motion forward at the instigation of the Oounty Council of the county he represented, as well as other neighboring counties, and after tracing the different steps by whioh the provinces were shorn of their local revenues,

he went on to Buy that abolition had led to disastrous result!. What he suggested was, that the present Parliament Bhould prepare a scheme of local government whioh might be laid before the various constituencies for their consideration and approval. What was wanted was a system which for a minimum of official expenditure will do the largest amount of useful work. We wanted thrift inculcated by the wholesome rule that those who spend the money must provide it. Wo wanted extraneous aid on a definite and equitable principle, not determined by a Parliamentary scramble for public monev, degrading to public morality and destructive of economy and independence. The prudent and thrifty t should not have to pay for the extravagant I and improvident. The principle by which a portion of the price of land was returned to the land to render it available for profitable colonisation should be restored. The 20 per cent, land fund and deferred payments should be paid to the shire councils towards road making approved by the Government. What he would propose was this : —That cities returning members of J Parliament should retain their independent form of local government; that other boroughs should become wards of tho shiro in which situated, but preserve their interests and autonomy, their mayor representing them in the shire council; that ridings and highway districts should be identical, the chairman being annually electod by the ratepayers, and being their representative to the shire council; that there should be one general valuation and rate for general purposes, but that ratepayers in particular districts should bo allowed to rate themselves for special works and purposes; where three or more counties and cities united, the chairmen and mayors should form the Waste Lands Board of the united shire, and should be endowed with tho net proceeds of the land or property tax in their districts ; that such shires should have the maintenance and management of hospitals and charitable ■ aid, with suoh powers as to sec»ro local supervision and local knowledge towards ensuring

economical management and relieving Parliament from work it cannot satisfactorily perform. Mr Obmond Baid that he had agreed to second the motion, but, after the statement made by the Treasurer, he felt somewhat embarrassed. He was one of those who regretted that the subject was not dealt with in the Governor's speech. There were three large questions before the publio at present. The first was local government, the second public works, and the third division of taxation. Ho hoped that during the debate on this motion the Government would indioate the direction in which they proposed moving. This question of local government should take precedence of such questions as hospitals and charitable aid, an the latter broached the subjeot of local government. After alluding to the municipalities and thoir functions he said that that left them with the counties and the Boad Boards. These two bodies had precisely the same work, and in faot they dashed. Litigation had taken place between those two bodies in certain places as a result of that dashing. The universal opinion, he maintained, was that the counties wero not performing their duties satisfactorily. In that oase what was the direction local government should take ? Their first step at improvement must be decentralisation; they would also have to make permanent provision for the local bodies. It was only the Government that could do that. He had an idea, however, what would be the best finance. He would not, as a private member, go further than to say that direct taxation was the proper method. Next as regards decentralisation. For years back they had bee" building up the central administration, but the question was what powers could they give the local bodies. The county system had not been a success, and it would be unfair to continue them by a name that had not been in the past a success. The Government should define the distriots larger than they were, keeping always in view the faot that they had a community of interests. There could be no doubt but the management of waste lands should devolve upon the districts. He would propose that the powers of the Waste Land Boards should be vested in these District Boards, and the Waste Lands Boards themselves abolished. The complaint was that the people had no voice in the administration of these Waste Lands Boards. Tho transfer of these powers as indicated would be of immense advantage to all concerned. Then again the opening of land for settlement was a funotion which might very well be relegated to their local bodies. He did not refleot on the Minister for Lands, but Btill the fact remained that this branch of the waste lands administration had caused no end of dissatisfaction to the districts. That arose simply because they had not a direct voice in the management of these lands. He next referred to eduoation. The power of education Boards might very properly be vested in the looal Boards. There were other functions, such as charitable aid, which might properly be relegated to the looal bodies. He next alluded to railway management, and would give them that funotion also. He. would give them all powers in the Aots referring to local matters. He meant by that all that referred to the affairs of daily life in country distriots, and such matters as the readjustment of Boad Boards' boundaries, &c. At present such a subject had to be dealt with by the Government as a subject on which they had no local knowledge whatever. Under the old provincial system the people had a ready , means for obtaining redress of grievances, but under the present system the same ready means for obtaining that redress did not exist. If a settler who had a grievance came to tho Government he had great difficulty in getting a hearing at all, and when a hearing was got the one reply was generally given, viz., that his letter had been received. In that respeot alone a return to some suoh form of Government as previously existed would be weloomed by all. The objection he had been mainly met with was how this was to be provided for. Last session the Government brought down a method in the Local Public Works Bill. Whether that was the best means or not, one thing was certain thatit was better than the pre* Bent system of funds going through the hands of the central Administration. He would ask if this House was at all likely to deal satisfactorily with this large question. Not only would they not deal satisfactorily with the matter, but he contended that they had no right to attempt it. It should be relegated to the people. In that case the business of the session should be done as soon as possible, the Bedistribution of Seats Bill framed, and then they should go to the country in connection with this subject.

Tha Hon. J. Hall said that it was impossible for him to speak on the subject until the Government had put their views on the point before the House as promised by the Treasurer. He would therefore ask them to adjourn the debate until they had had an opportunity of placing their proposals before the House. Mr Bbowh characterised the statement just made as an extraordinary one, and insisted that the Government ought to be prepared to indicate their policy on the subject.

Mr Geobgb read a series of resolutions on the subject passed by looal bodies belonging to the district he represented, recommending that County Counoils should be abolished, and the main roads taken over by the Government.

Mr Bunny moved the adjournment of the debate for a fortnight, to enable the Government to bring down their proposals on the subject. Mr Mosa felt that the conclusions come to by Mr Ormond were lame and impotent. He scouted the idea of leaving the whole question to the next general election. Ha asked them to oonsider the question carefully, with the view of elaborating a oomplete scheme. The proposal for the Government to take over the main roads had been laughed at by the Government* His opinion was that they were bound to take over these roads. They had taken all the revenue, and they had left the districts nothing to work upon. His opinion was that the Redistribution Bill should not be settled until this ques-

tion was deoided upon. A proper soheme of local government would enable the number of members of the Legislature to be reduced at least one-half, besides a great reduotion in the expense of their attendance at Parliament. In that caße they might hand over to the local bodies the property tax and other sources of revenue at present absorbed by the central administration. If the motion was put, he would ask that the following addition be made to it—" That no Bill will be satisfactory which does not provide a system of local government which will relieve the General Assembly of the necessity for local legislation, thereby reducing the number of members of both Houses, and effecting a corresponding reduotion in the enormous expenditure of the central Government." Mr Sutton said that the county system in the North Island had worked moderately well. In Hawke's Bay the Council had spent more in the construction of roads and bridges than the Provincial Council during a corresponding period. At present the Road Board and county system were in antagonism, and what he wanted to see was the fusion of these two bodies into one. Crown lands should be rated the same as other lands, and by that means the local bodies would be recouped by the expenditure in virtue of which the value of their lands was greatly enhanced. Mr Wood agreed in the opinion that the motion should be adjourned until the Government had brought down their proposals. The whole question resolved itself into one of finance and finance only. At present they had got a machine, but no motive power ; it waß a constitution that could not be got to go. The revenue of local bodies was insufficient for their purposes, and unless they could find them money they could do them no good. This might be made an electioneering cry, but it could do no real good. Where the money was to come from he did not know. If the Government succeeded in bringing down an efficient system, they would do a great work indeed ; but he did not look forward to it. One thing, true, had been Baid in the debate, viz , that under present circumstances they had come to a stoppage of their public works. Such, ho was sorry to say, was the real facts of the case, and that meant something very serious indeed for the colony. Men were placed on small patches of land wholly shut out from any market, and could do literally nothing. The ratepayers were fully alive to the fact that a great deal of money was spent in administration and very little on roads. What the settlers wanted was money; that was what they asked for, and instead of giving them money the House gave them institutions. They were sent there to devise a scheme of local selfgovernment, and if they went back to the constituencies and said we cannot do it; you will have to do it yourselves—that would mean i that very few of them would come back again. He was sorry that this business had ; not come on sooner. They had been a fort-

night in session listening to long lectures on teetotalism. Then they were told that they would have other eight days before the real work came on ; that meant that it would not come before them until such a period of the session as would prevent anything effective being done, and the session would end just as other sessions had done, without any real good being aohieved. Dr. Wallis was speaking at the 5.30 adjournment. ——- EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. SECOND BEADING. Mr Riohabdbon moved the second reading of the Harbor Act Amendment Bill, which, after a brief discussion, was agreed to. DBAINAGB BILL. The House went into committee on the Drainage Bill, which was reported with amendments, and ordered to be read a third time that day week. LICENSING BILL. The House went into committee on the Licensing Bill. Clause 108—Olub license, £2O. Mr Ahdrbws moved that it be reduoed to £5. The objeot of licensing clubs was to suppress bogus establishments. This oould be attained by a small as well as by a large fee, while a large fee would be a hardship to genuine working men's clubs. Mr Babtingß thought the club fee should be £4O, the same as publio houses. Mr Jones concurred in this view. Mr Baundebs pointed out, as a reason why no license fees should be reduced, that the effect of their present legislation would be to reduce the number of all kinds of licenses, thereby increasing tho value of those left in existence. The amendment was negatived on the voices and the fee passed as printed. Sub-seotion s—New Zealand wine license, £l. Mr Bastings moved that it be increased io £2O, contending that these licenses would be abused for the sale of other than New Zealand wines. Messrs Wakepield and Geobgb strongly supported suoh licenses as being an encouragement to a valuable local industry. Mr Tubnbull opposed the proposal to grant these licenses altogether, although every facility should be granted to looal manufacturers to dispose of their productions. Mr Bebtbs thought that a colonial beer license should be provided for. The proposed lioense would simply be a cover to sly grog selling. Dr. Wallis supported these licenses. The amendment was negatived, and the original £1 license carried by 36 to 17. The following is the division list:— Ayes, 36—Messrs Bain, Ballance, Beotham, Brown, Bunny, Oolbeck, Collins, DeLautour, Dick, Fisher, J. B. (Buller), Fuller, George, Gibbs, Hall, Harris, Hirst H. (Wallace), Hursthouse, Johnston, Kelly, Levestam, Lundon, McLean, Moss, Murray, Ormond, Pitt, Shanks, Stevens, Sutton, Swanson, Tawhai, Tole, Tomoana, Trimble, Wakefield, Wallis. Noes, 17. Messrs Allwright, Andrews, Bastings, Fisher J. T., Sir W. Fox, Messrs Hutchison, Jones, Montgomery, Oliver, Reeves, Richardson, Saunders, Shepherd, Speight, Stewart, Thompson, Turnbull. Subsection 7—Packet license, £lO. Mr Colbbob moved that after lioense the words be added—" for vessels exceeding fifty tons register." Mr Lbvbstah moved that the amount be £2O instead of £lO. Mr Mubbat wished to know how the fees were to be disposed of. For instance: Would the Union Company's steamers pay the fee at Port Chalmers ? The Hon. T. Dick explained that the Bill made provision that the fees should be paid in at the place where the license was taken out. Mr Colbeck's amendment was agreed to. The other was rejected, and tho fee passed at £lO for vessels over fifty tons and £5 for vessels under fifty tons register. Subsection B—Wholesale license, £lO. Mr Ahdbkwb moved that it be incroised to £2O. The amendment was adopted. Subsection 9—Conditional licenses, a sum not exceeding £3O, at the discretion of the authorities. Mr AKMiwa moved that £3O be struck out and £5 per day be inserted. The House divided on the question that the clause as printed bo passed. Ayes, 26; Noes, 24. Mr Tole moved as an additional subsection—A confectioner's license, authorising persons who shall keep refreshment houses and shall pursue therein the trade or business of a oonf ectioner, or shall keep open such house as an eating-house for the purpose of selling victuals to be consumed therein, to sell liquor to be consumed with suoh victuals during such times between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. as the lioensing committee shall determine; provided such licensee shall sot keep any publio bar or tap-room on such premises : Fee, £5. The House divided. Ayes, 19; noes, 27. Tho motion was lost. Mr Pitt moved as a further sub-seotion that an accommodation lioense shall authorise the licensee to sell and dispose of any intoxicating liquor on the premises therein specified, and such license may be granted on the terms of repairing or keeping in repair any road or bridge in the vicinity of suoh premises, keeping a ferry or providing good accommodation for travellers or on such other terms as the licensing committee shall think fit, inoluding the payment of a fee of not exceeding £2O, to be fixed by the licensing committee.

Sir W. Fox objected to the clause, alleging that this was the description of house in which such abominable decoctions known as Maori rum, which was well known to be fast destroying the aboriginal race, was sold, and where sawyers and shearers underwent the process known as “lambing down.” The Hon. T. Dick thought that the provision for special licenses under clause 7 would meet all reasonable requirements for accommodation houses situate in remote localities. The House divided. Ayes, 33; noes, 11. Progress was reported, and the House rose at 1.20.