MR BRYCE, M.H.R., AT WANGANUI.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2208, 24 March 1881, Page 3

MR BRYCE, M.H.R., AT WANGANUI.

f PRESS ASSOCIATION TELEGRAM.] WANGANUI, Mured. 23. At his meeting to-night, Mr Bryce spoke as follows with reference to Native affairs : Now I come to the question of my retirement, from the Ministry. It is a step which has, 1 think, been made rather too much of, and it is a step which ought to become more common than it is. If a gentleman belonging to a Ministry sees that there is a divergence between him and the bulk of his colleagues which he cannot compromise, he should leave the Government, more especially if the point of divergence has reference to something connected with his own department, because it is

somewhat unreaeonable to expect a man either to carry out in his own deportment the views of which he does not ipprovo, or to abstain from doing things which ho believes ought properly to be done. I am in some what of a difficulty in regard to this matter. Of course it is not my place to divulge anything that ought to bo kept secret, nor do J intend to do it, and again, as I believe the plan I suggested for dealing with Te will have to be carried out, I do not think it would bo right to describe that plan in all its details. I think if an impartial observer had marked my conduct and my utterances he would have seen that I had one consistent plan in my mind from the beginning, and that there was unity of purpose at any rate in my own mind. At any rate, when moving the second reading of the West Coast Bill, I said the object the Government constantly had in view was the settlement of the claims of the Maoris, but at the same lime the state of affairs which had existed on that coast for so many years must exist no longer, and settlement must proceed on that coast and the authority of the law must be established there. Justice to the Natives was to go hand in hand with a thorough determination on the part of the Government to establish the authority of law upon the coast. Those were the principles I laid down, and everything I have said or done since has been consistent with those principles. The two things were so closely connected that really they must be regarded as one. Now, how was this to be accomplished ? That was the question. The whole of that coast with regard to olsims and promises in respect to land restored or to be restored was in the most tangled and complicated condition that it was possible to conceive, and the more you look into it the . more you will see the difficulties of the position. Well, then the Government came to a determination to appoint a commission to inquire into the claims and grievances of the Maoris. Let me point this out, that that had also been the determination of the previous Government. In fact, they had appointed Mr James Maokay a commissioner for the purpose. Bat we, while agreeing that a commission should be appointed, thought that it would be better to appoint different men. It was necessary to appoint the Commission to satisfy the Natives that the colony meant to do justice to them, but at the same time I took it that it was necessary to show the Maoris that we were fully determined to carry out our purposes, and have our will upon that coast; to show them in fact that settlement must go on and the authority of the law be upheld. It was with the latter idea of convincing the Maoris that we had the power and will to do that that I moved the Armed Constabulary across the Waingongoro river. Since the time I did so much has been done on that coast. Such great changes have taken place that people have almost forgotten the state of things that existed there fourteen months ago. Why, when I asked for money to make roads, a member of the late Government tried to get me to promise that I would make no roads without the consent of the Natives. People felt convinced that it meant war, and from various influential quarters the Government were urged not to advance the Constabulary across the river until the Royal Commission had completed its labors. I knew that in that case the Royal Commission would be a farce. I knew that the only thing to give the Royal Commission a chance of success was a display of force at the same time. I, therefore, moved the force across the Waingongoro, and I did it in pursuance of the very principles I had laid down at the outset. Do not suppose I took that step without a deep sense of my responsibility. One may not regard it so now, but at that time it was very generally regarded as a most important step, a step which would not improbably lead to war. There were scarcely two men in the colony who thought differently, and I knew if things went wrong, if settlements were mined and people murdered I should be resting under a heavy responsibility, and should be accused of bad judgment and so on. It was a time of grave anxiety to me. and in the innocence of my heart I did think that at any rate I bad some little right to expect sympathy and countenance and support from the press of Wanganui. Bnt how did I get it. Sir, at the very agony of the time, at the most critical jenod, when the balance was quivering >etween peace and war, a paper in this town took the opportunity of publishing a series of sketches inflammatory to the Natives and degrading to Europeans. What did these sketches teach? They taught Maoris that they might revel in the blood of our countrymen 5 that they might oome down the coast and kill every man, woman and child, and that the poor deluded pakeha could be caught in first one trap and then another in their simplicity of heart; and that they could carry everything before them until they reached a certain point. And then it went on to teach that the white man, unable to fight the Maoris, would have to call in the aid of a foreign race. Degrading and inflammatory though the sketch was, I settled my plana with anxiety ; but, still, I prosecuted them. I, acting, of course, for the Government, moved the constabulary across the river, I made roods, and I made them without the consent of the Maoris ; I completed the telegraph lines, which Te Whiti had resisted ; I caused the lighthouse to be begun to which To Whiti had refused his consent ; I falsified all his predictions and put the camp within two miles of Farihaka, and the law was vindicated, as the fencers who were sent down to obstruct this roadmaking were captured and put in prison. That served two purposes. It vindicated the law and it weakened Te Whiti’s strength. The land was surveyed and prepared for market, and everything went on well till September last. Till then wo continued to advance, and my plan had proceeded without interruption. I admit that there was a pause then, and I am now coming to the point of divergence between myself and the majority of the Cabinet. What I ought to have been permitted to do at that time was to have paid a visit to Te Whiti, I ought to have gone and seen him with such a force at my back as would have commanded respect. 1 ought to have gone, in point of fact, with as large a force of the Armed Constabulary as could have been collected together, and I ought to have said this to Te Whiti, “This is a very small country, too small to bold two separate authorities. If yon are the man of sense some people suppose you to be, you will see that for yourself, and yon will also see whiob of the two authorities must prevail. Either the Queen or you must prevail, and I must see that the authority of the law shall from this time forth prevail at Farihaka as well as elsewhere.” I would have told him that he could no longer be permitted to harbor criminals; that such a thing was fraught with danger to the community. I should have told him that particularly he could no longer be permitted to give refuge to murderers, and I should have told him that there was one murderer there who must be arrested, and that I had oome to arrest him, and then and there I should have arrested that man. You will not expect me to detail the plan I had made to render that arrest effective, but I have little doubt that it would have been effective. If Te Whiti had quietly consented i there would have been no necessity for the 1 arrest of To Whiti himself, except this, that ; it would have been done through the neoea-

jity to destroy his prestige among the Maoris. His prestige so far as it wont was hostile to onr authority, but I am bound to say this, that if be resisted I should have appro bended him with ns little hesitation as I would have apprehended any other person who resisted the law. Whether he resisted or not this step would from that time forth have placed him under the control of the law, and his mana, so far as it was hostile to us, would hare been seriously shaken. I do not think ho would have resisted. He would have seen perfectly well that his means of resistance were too weak—that our power was too strong. Ho would have known as well as I knew that within ten days I could have concentrated 2000 upon him, and another 1000 within another ten days, and he would not for a moment have entertained the slightest idea of resistance. If ho had resisted—and I am

1 bound to dwell upon it, because I know the point had weight with my colleagues I should have arrested him, and that ! believe would have been the best thing which could have happened for the solution of the West Coast difficulty. I have been accused in the public press of a great many things. I have been told that I was going to make a desperate advance, and occupy Parihaka, violently arrest Te Whiti, and bring on a war ; in foot, I have been represented as a blood-thirsty wretch, who only wanted an opportunity to have his name handed down as the instigator of another massacre of Glencoe. I 8,111 n 0“ going to defend myself from these charges, but there is one charge which has run through the Government section of the press which I should like to say a few words about; this is that I had departed from the lines of the re- ' commendations of the West Coast Commission. I cannot say that I felt myself particularly bound by those lines, but I deny the fact that I have departed from them. (The hoa. gentleman here read an extract from report of the Commission, setting forth that while liberal provision should bo made, the provision should and must bo conditional upon the European settlers getting a guarantee of good behaviour from the Natives.) I think, therefore, no one can accuse me of departing from the lines of the recommendations of the West Coast Commission, and I regret that before making such charges these gentlemen did not ascertain what those lines were. I have now indicated generally the points of divergence between the majority of the Cabinet and myself, and I should like to say this If you leave Te Whiti with the power of harboring criminals at Parihaka, it is not a very indirect encouragement to crime. I believe Hiroki murdered McLean out of private malice, but immediately he went to Parihaka and said it was because of the land ho became a hero and honored guest and so remains. Is it not in human nature that Maoris who may be a little disposed in that way will go and do likewise ? No doubt, if Tuhi had not, by’the activity of the Armed Constabulary, been prevented from going to Parihaka, he would have told the same tale, and would, no doubt, have been similarly treated. I believe we would have gone and arrested him, but it it would have been right to have arrested Tuhi, it must bo also right to arrest Hiroki. It has been said that wo are no more bound to arrest Hiroki than any of the murderers in the Waikato or in the King country; bat to ray mind that argument has no force. It would have been undesirable to have attemped the arrest of the murderers of Moffat at Upper Wanganui because it would have been useless to do so ; but suppose they had come up to Putiki, and stayed week after week and month after month, would we not have been bound to go and arrest them ? Certainly so. With the Waikato and King country that would simply bring about a war, but there was a strong force _ within two miles of Parihaka, where Hiroki is flaunting himself. I do not attach so much importance as some people do to the expense, because I know it is over-estimated, but one thing Ido attach importance to. There are several little quarrels in various parts of the colony, and as a result of keeping this force on the plains, the law cannot be vindicated at Napier, the Waikato, the Thames, and other places, and so long as these matters are allowed to hang on there will be constant risk of such outbreak as would, if it occurred, necessitate the withdrawal of a part of the force from the plains. That is another reason why some thing definite should be done at once. I may be asked, and, indeed, have been asked, “ if this view presented itself to yon last September, why did you not resign ? “If the time was then ripe for this action, why did I not then resign ? That seems a pertinent and reasonable question. My reply is, as a matter of fact, I did resign last September. I sent in my resignation on the ground of divergence between myself and the Cabinet, but I withdrew that resignation, because I thought I saw good ground for hoping that by giving up certain points to that portion of the Ministry which differed from me I should get my own way on the essential point, and between September and the time of my resignation I was always trying to promote unison in the Cabinet on the subject. I consented to some things against my judgment in order to get that which I hoped for, with a great deal of assurance, up to the last. When I found I was unsuccessful I retired from tho Government. It was a very painful thing for me to retire, because I was associated with men whom I highly esteemed .whom I believed were necessary in the carrying on of the good work of restoring the financial condition of the colony to something like a proper tone, and yet I felt compelled to resign. There was another thing that added bitterness to it. As a rule, I am not an ambitious man, but I had some personal ambition in this matter. I did strongly desire to associate my name with the settlement of the West Coast difficulty, which had bafiled successive previous Governments for years. I thought I had brought things to such a state that the fruits of my anxious labour might be fairly gathered, and I assure you it was a bitter moment for me when I had to turn away disappointed. Nevertheless lam bound to say—and I say it with the most perfect sincerity—that the 'members of the Government who differed from me (it has been said the Government was unanimous against me, but that is not so) had a perfect right to their judgment. It was by no means a departmental matter, but a great matter affecting the colony, and they had a perfect right to exercise their judgment. I do not doubt they exercised it in tho most conscientious manner believed to be to the interests of the colony. The question is—what is to be done now ? For my own part, Ido not think it is of any use to negotiate with Te Whiti. I do not think there is any case in New Zealand of any Maori having consented voluntarily and in direct terms to confiscation, and from the character of Te Whiti I take it he is one of the last men likely to do it. I believe the idea of negotiating with To Whiti to be perfectly preposterous. There has been an idea mooted of forming a military settlement, but I cannot tee that any good would result from that. [The hon. gentleman illustrated by a map the position of the country, and argued that there was 100 much frontier to be protected by a military settlement.] If you established a military settlement you would either get men who would be useless as settlers, or men who would not fight unless paid for it. Certainly I am convinced that not a single sixpence would be saved. No doubt the present policy may proceed, settlement may progress, and the population increase, and in time the difficulty will be removed. But remember this, so long as Te Whiti is there with his present mana there will be a danger of crimes being committed and criminals seeking refuge at_ Parihaka. There is another point. It is due to the Maoris themselves that Te Whiti’s influence over them should be broken. I believe that they are in a state of most intense fear of him. It is true that their faith in him, to a great extent, is gone. They no longer take to Parihaka clothes to clothe the dead who may bo raised to life by Te Whiti. They no longer expect any great things from Te Whiti, but they have a dreadful fear of being be-deviled to death by him, and it is about time that that fear should be broken. Moreover, there is another very great practical difficulty. There are a great many Maori prisoners in gaol at present, and if Te Whili’s supremacy is allowed to remain I do not see now these prisoners can be liberated, because as sure as they return they will increase his power. I have no doubt that until tho power of Te Whiti is broken these prisoners cannot be safely returned. That is a practical difficulty which I think the Government will have to bear in mind ; and there is this one other point—that while our success upon that coast has been very great (and it has been very great, as you will see if you compare the state of things fourteen months ago and the present aspect of affaire) it has been due to the impression that the Government had the will and tho determination and tho power to carry on settlement, and establish law and authority there. It has been entirely due to that. I don’t know that the Boyal Commission has yet succeeded in detaching one single man from Te Whiti, but our success has been due to the fact that we showed a determination to have our own way.

Mr Bryce spoke for over two hours, and was patiently listened to. A vote of thanks and of confidence was moved by Mr Somerville, chairman of the County Council, and was seconded by Mr Sharpe. Mr Geo. Hutchinson, speaking to the motion, wsrmly attacked the Government over their land policy j and said the Pa*<tare would prove their grave. He supported the motion, but made a reservation that the action of the Government did not entitle them to his confidence. The motion was put, and was timed unanimously.