SEVERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 2007, 30 July 1880, Page 3

SEVERAL ASSEMBLY.

£pbb pbbss association bpbciaii wtbb.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thubsday, July 29. In the Legislative Council, In reply to the Hon. W. Peters, The Hon. E. Whitakee said that a deviation had been made in Mount Somers Railway and in the plan of the Oxford and Temuka line because it was found desirable to do so. No special authority was wanted for the alteration. The Auckland College and Grammar School Trustees Declaration Bill (Hon. Dr. Pollen) was read a first time. The Treasury Bills Bill was passed through Committee unaltered, the Hon. G. M. Watbehousb protesting that under the power given to issue Treasury Bills in London the Government would be able to break their engagement not to borrow for three years. The debate on the appointment of a committee to inquire into Mr Taiaroa’s disqualification was resumed by Sir E. D. Bell, who alluded to the persistent efforts of Sir G. Grey to degrade the Council in the eyes of the country. He explained that Dr. Pollen had not meant on the previous day that the late Premier had made appointments to the Council with the object of degrading it, which assertion had given great pain to the members appointed by Sir G. Grey. He blamed Colonel Whitmore for associating with the head of a Government whose hostility to the Council was so notorious. The debate lasted nearly the whole afternoon, several other members urging that former Premiers had also vilified the Council, whose dignity, however, would be beat consulted by their treating such vilification with contempt. Ultimately, after a very long and personal discussion, a committee was appointed to inquire into the subject of the disqualification. The debate on the coat of education was resumed by The Hon. Captain Phases, who said that the expense to the State might be lessened a third if children were kept away from school until the seventh or eighth year, as was advocated by medical men and leading writers on education. The debate was adjourned, and the Council rose at 5 p.m. HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES. Thttesday, July 29. The House met at 2 30 p.m. BEPOET. Mr Kelly brought up the report of the Public Petitions Committee on the petition of Mr Ehrenfried, complaining that the Licensing Bench at the Thames had refused a renewal of the licenses to five houses in that district. The Committee found that the Bench were authorised by the Act to judge whether or not it was in the public interest that such licenses should be granted or refused, and the Committee advised that the House should not interfere in the matter. MAOEI DETENTION BILL, The Hon. J. Beyob asked leave to introduce the Maori Detention Bill. As it was a matter of urgency, he requested that he might be allowed to carry it through all its stages to-morrow. NOTICE OP MOTION. Mr Saunders gave notice of motion for the appointment of a Select Committee to consider and report upon the expense of the officials connected with both Houses of Parliament. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Reid, The Hon. R. Oliveb said that Government had received an official report from the Warden stating that a number of claims had been taken up on the recently discovered goldfields at Mapouraki, Okarito district. Replying to Major Wheoro, The Hon. R. Olivbb said that the engineer in charge of the road from Alexandra to Pinua advised that the proposed line should bo abandoned and another route selected. Government had not yet considered the proposal, but would do so as soon as practicable. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. J. Beyce said that the claims sent in for compensation by constables who had got, notice of dismissal were under consideration, and until they were disposed of it was manifestly unfair to ask the intention of the Government in respect to individual constables. Replying to Mr Barron, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that Government would not, in addition to the amalgamation of the Marino with the Customs Department, the practicability of which the Colonial Treasurer has promised to take into consideration, also with a view of further retrenchment endeavor to effect an amalgamation between the Land and Deeds Registry and Stamp Departments. Replying to Mr Masters, The Hon. R. Oliveb said that Government recognised the importance, and next session would introduce a Bill to amend the Regulation of Mines Act, 1874, to provide for the issue within the colony of certificates of competency as managers of coal mines to those persons who are anxious to pass an examination to prove their fitness to hold such. The

preference shown by coal owners to appoint certificated managers only was placing at a great disadvantage those who, though thoroughly competent, cannot now obtain certificates in the colony. OAMAEU HARBOR BOARD BILL. The House went into committee on the Oamaru Harbor Board Bill. Mr Murray objected to the principle of the Bill, and moved that progress be reported. Mr Hurst concurred, stating that the member in charge of the Bill had shown no necessity for the measure. The Hon. J. Hall said that the Government was not enamoured of the Bill, tut the House had decided that it should go on, and he deprecated any attempt being made towards its obstruction. Mr Murray said that the object of the Bill was to take this endowment out of the hands of the Waste Lands Board. The land was under lease for fourteen years, and there was no pressing necessity for the legislation sought. Mr Jones said that they wore not asking for an endowment. All they asked for was the administration of one already secured, and in virtue of which the Harbor Board had contracted largo liabilities. In the hands of the Harbor Board it was likely to be better administerd than it would be if left in the hands of the Waste Lands Board.

The House divided on the question that Clause 3 be struck out —Ayes 13, noea 38. The Bill was then passed and reported with amendment, read the third time, and passed. TARANAKI SMELTING WORKS;

The House went into Committee on the Taranaki Iron Smelting Works Land Act, 1874, Amendment Bill. The Hon. Major Atkinson protested against the Bill as giving away the public estate, but as the House had decided on carrying the Bill he would not further oppose it. He showed that the company had not fulfilled the conditions of the grant. They had not raised the requisite capital, and to make good the deficiency they had granted a certain number of shares to a man named Smith, on account of a patent said to belong to him. On asking the chairman if, in the event of the company being wound up, they were prepared to pay Smith the amount of these shares, the reply was, “ Oh, no. Ho (Smith) would have no claim at all.” The company had never acted in good faith, end no effort had been made to smelt iron. It was simply giving away 5000 acres of the public estate. Messrs Macandrew and Ballancb denied that no effort had been made to smelt iron, the former stating that ho was present and witnessed a smelting experiment, and the latter that £6OO had been spent on appliances. The matter had been before several committees, and they had all decided in recommending the proposal now made. The Hon. W. Rolleston said ha would vote in every way against the Bill, with a view of preventing it possible a fraud being perpetrated on the public. Colonel Thimble said the company’s capital was not bona fide. It was simply a loan, being put away until this claim had been asserted, and afterwards would be paid back to the lender with interest. Mr Murray said he had ascertained that shares had been bought up by speculators, in the hope of this Bill passing, and thereby making something out of them. The complexion of the transaction had changed materially in his estimation. Mr Turnbull said that a goodly number of shares were held by residents In the South Island and that the land was promised at the time the company was formed, and the shares subscribed for. In that case he considered it would be a hardship to withhold the land, simply because the affair had not turned out successfully.

Mr Kelly said that there was no intention of making up the capital to work the sand. They had simply made it up to secure the land. T.'-'.o affair had not been a bona-fide one. He contended that the had neither complied with the letter nor spirit of the condition under which the grant was promised. Mr Stewart said that this was an attempt to deprive the company of its just rights. Their proceedings throughout proved a bona-fide intention on the part of the company. They had spent more than twice the amount which by law they were bound to spend. The Bill passed through Committee and was reported without amendments. bills passed. The Nelson Gas and Waterworks Sale Act, 1877, Amendment and Wanganui Harbor and River Conservators Board Grant Bills were passed through Committee without amendment, read a third time and passed. The House adjourned at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. MORNING BITTING. The Hon. Major Atkinson moved that the House meet to-morrow morning at 11 o’clock, to dispose of Bills of a non-political character, more especially the Revision of Statutes Bill. Mr J. B. Fibhbb said the Government could not have considered the proposal. He, for one, had business of importance in committee at 11 o’clock to attend to. If the House sat on Monday and Saturday he did not see how the work was to get on at all. Mr DbLautoub said it was unreasonable to ask them to sit from 11 a.m. till one or two next morning. Mr Montgomery understood that this was a proposal for that Friday only, and that only unopposed Bills were to be taken. The Hon. Major Atkinson said that nothing but unopposed Bills would be taken, and if they found any Bill opposed they would agree to its postponement. The motion was put and carried. MISCELLANEOUS. Mr Moss called the attention of the Government to the valuable reports of the inspectors of schools laid on the table yesterday. Hitherto these reports had formed part of the departmental reports. The Hon. W. Rolleston replied that some of these had been received too late this year, but he appreciated their value and would see that they were printed in the appendix with the report. The District Courts Acts, 1858, Amendment Bill was withdrawn. The Municipal Corporations Act Amendment and Friendly Societies Act Amendment Bills were postponed. Th e Fire Brigade and Hospital and Charitable Aid Endowment Bills were reported with amendments.

Mr DbLautoub moved the second reading of the Education Reserve Act, 1877, Amendment Bill.

The Government agreed to the motion on the understanding that a fall discussion would take place on committal, and the motion was carried. The Justice of the Peace Act, 1866, Amendment Bill was discharged, and the Mines Act, 1877, Amendment Bill postponed. Mr Tolb moved the committal of the New Zealand University and University Colleges Bill, and explained its provisions. The Hon. W. Rolleston said the Bill proposed an expenditure which the colony could not afford. With the principle of the Bill he fully agreed. He would support the Bill going into committee, but no further. IK COMMITTEE. The House went into committee. Sir G. M. O’Robkb expressed surprise that no notice had been taken by the Government of the recommendation by the Commission of higher education. He had seen the advantage that the South Island obtained from its university, and he earnestly desired to see the North Island enjoy similar advantages. After making every possible allowance for the straightened circumstances of the colony, ho hoped the Government would make the concession sought for in the cause of higher education in the North Island. Whatever the issue might be he felt sure that the present state of matters in the North Island would not be tolerated much longer. On clause 2 being proposed, The Hon. W. Rolleston moved that progress be reported. Sir G. Geby said that their primary education required to be supplemented by education of a higher order. He believed that the establishment of four colleges in New Zealand, all teaching different branches of education, would turn out men of varied knowledge and attainments. He saw an objection to only jfour being established, as they would have one at Dunedin, one at Christchurch, one at Wellington, and the fourth at Auckland. "That would place them all on the East Coast. He would like to see one established say at Taranaki, and one on the West Coast of the Middle Island. At Otago and Christchurch the Colleges were established by public funds, and he did not see that any exouse would avail for not giving a similar concession to the North. He would say take the fund from some endowment in the Middle Island, if no other means could be found. The North had as good a right to a higher education as the

South. He did not think that very expensive buildings were required. It was intellect that constituted a College, not gaudy buildings. The points relating to the constitution of ' universities might very well stand over for a year. He would give the fullest and freest scope for the selection of a chancellor. He objected to the narrowing down of the selection as proposed by the Bill. He hoped that the Government would go so far as to acknowledge the importance of these establishments for this Island. He hoped that the wisdom that guided the South in securing these advantages would guide them in securing similar benefits for the North Island.

M* Montgomery agreed with what had been said as to the desirability of the establishment of colleges in the North Island. Temporary buildings might be secured to make a start in. He could testify to the advantage secured to the South Island from its colleges, and he would like very much to fee a similar advantage secured for the North. Ho did not agree in the proposal to take funds from the South for the purposes of the North. Ho could assure them that the South had (oo little for their own purposes. He would have liked to have heard it said rather that the funds necessary for the South should bo taken out of the colonial revenues, and he trusted that the Treasurer would see his way to provide the necessary funds for the purpose proposed. Mr Macandrew said that the Bill proposed to spend £30,000 on buildings, and £BOOO per annum on professors. That was more than the colony cculd at present afford. The North could if it liked take advantage of the South Island Universities. Then it might be urged that a University should be established in other places besides those named, in fact in every town. Ho was startled at the bare proposal of establishing these Universities at the cost of the South Island, There were valuable endowments in the North Island, and they might be devoted to the purpose, at all events, of establishing at least one University. In the meantime it was manifestly unfair that Otago, where they had sold their land at £1 and £2 per acre, should be made to hear the cost of places that had parted with their lands at 5s per aero, Mr Bowen agreed that it was necessary that means should be devised for establishing a system of University education all over New Zealand. It was not to be expected that the sons of settlers in the North could go to Dunedin, or even Christchurch. They might just as well be expected to go to England at once. He recognised the difficulty that surrounded the question. At present the funds were not available, but something might be done towards improving higher education in the North Island, The first degree taken by a lady in New Zealand was taken by one educated in England. Mr Mooehouse said that if education or religion were worth having, they ought to be paid for by those getting them. Public propriety ought to recognise its duty of maintaining both its religious and educational institutiona without making them a charge on the state. Reasonable justice would be done to the North Island it they were provided with buildings, but beyond that be would not go. All endowments of this description he would reserve for the State, and if necessary dispose of them in relief of public burdens. He did not believe in endowments. The best way was to sell them, pay the debts, and make the public pay for these and other advantages. Colonel Trimble said they must recognise the fact that these endowments were colonial, and not made for mere provincial purposes. Still, he would deprecate the suggestion made for appropriating the South endowments for North Island purposes. Mr Hurst was afraid that the colony was in danger of falling into the extreme of overeducating. The result was that the professional walks of life, those of barristere, &0., wore being crowded, to the detriment of other pursuits more directly of a reproductive character. Mr Moaa cautioned them against the superficial stylo of education followed out in some of tae colonial universities. Sir G. M. O’Rohke disclaimed any intention of appropriating the South Island endowments for North Island purposes. What he desired was that similar provisions should bo made for the North to those which existed in the South, The motion for reporting progress wos carried. The Otago Harbor Board Empowering Bill was further considered in committee, reported with amendments and read a third time, after Messrs Shepherd, Hurst, Macandrew, Enlton, Shrimski and Bowen had spoken against the Bill, and the Hon. T. Dick in its support. The Bill was then passed. Mr Hutchison moved the second reading of the Chinese Immigration Bill. The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the Government was in communication with the other colonies with a view of concerting joint action on the subject. He hoped that would be sufficient to justify the withdrawal of the Bill. It was a measure which ought to be taken in hand by the Government. Mr Hutchison said he would be content to take the fate of the Bill on the voices. The Bill was ultimately withdrawn. Mr Reeves moved the second reading of the Mining Companies’ Act, 1872, Amendment Bill. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill ordered to go before the Goldfields Committee, On the motion of Mr Fulton the Otago Rivers Bill Committee was reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. Mr Moohhousb briefly moved the second reading of the Deceased Wife’s Sister Marriage Bill. Mr Macandrew said that every member had no doubt made up his mind on the question, so he would without remark move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. On a division, the second reading was carried by 27 to 9. The following is the division list: — Ayes, 29 —Messrs Atkinson, Barron, DsLautour, Dick, J. T. Fisher, Fulton, Gisborne, Hamlin, Hirst, H, Hurst, W. J. Hursthouse, Jones, Kelly, Masters, Montgomery, Moorhouse, Oliver, Beeves, Rolleston, Seymour, Shanks, Shephard, Shrimski, Swanson, Trimble, Whitaker, Wright. Noes, 9 —Messrs Bowen, Harris, Hutchison, Lundon, Macandrew, Tainui, Tawhia, Tomoana, Wallis. Mr Moorhouse wished to have the Bill committed forthwith, but Dr. Wallis objecting, this could not bo done. On the motion that it be committed next Thursday, Mr Swanson moved the additional words “ at 7.30.”

This led to some discussion, and the motion as amended was carried. The House then rose.