GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1999, 21 July 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[pee pbess association special wise.]

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. i Tuesday, July 20. la the Oonacil, A nmnber of petitions were presented in favor of Bible reading in schools, and The Hon. Mr Menzibs gave notice to move for a return of the number of petitions, and the number of signatures 'presented on the subject, during the last two years. The Hon. F. Whitakbb gave notice to introduce a District Courts Act. The Babbit Nuisance Bill wae read a third time. The Hon. Mr Taiaeoa moved for the printing of a return of the dismissed and reduced Native Assessors. In speaking to the motion Sir F, D, Bell and the Hon. Colonel Whitiioeb censured the Government for depriving chiefs who had done great service in the past of the small pensions tbey had been given under the name of assessorships. Hon. F. Whitakkb said he would support giving pensions pure and simple to eminent -chiefs, but would not uphold the bestowal of sinecures. The motion was carried. The greater part of the sitting was occupied in committee on the Elections Petitions Bill and Native Reserves Bill, in neither of which were any important amendments made. The Council adjourned at 5 p.m. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, July 20. The House met at 2.30 p.m. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr Stbwabt gave notice to move for leave to introduce the Friendly Societies Act Amendment Act, I 86 0; also that he would ask if the attention of the Government had being directed to the fact that a solicitor of the Supreme Court at Ashburton had been committed to prison for contempt of Court, and if so what action they propose taking in the matter. PETITION. Mr Hubst presented a petition from fourteen settlers residing in the county of Wallace, Southland, praying that the payment of deferred payment settlers’ instalments bo extended from ten to fifteen years. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Ormond, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the reduction of 10 per cent on the salaries and wages of the employes in the Civil Service was not a question of income tax, and that the two things were not connected in the mind of the Government when the reduction was decided upon, therefore it was unnecessary to associate it in any way with a Bill to tax provisional incomes ; further, that Government had not any intention of introducing such a Bill. Replying to Mr Stewart, The Hon. W. Rollkston said that the last advices they had from England were to the effect that applications for an Inspector of Prisons for the Colony had been invited, and the appointment will probably be made by this time. In the present condition of the colony, the Government thought such appointment imperatively necessary. Replying to Mr Hamlin, The Hon. J. Bbycb said Alex. McDonald had been appointed Native lands purchaser, his salary being £350. The appointment was merely temporary. Replying to Mr Reid, The Hon. J. Hall said that, considering the period of the session, and the amount of work to be got through, Government did not see their way to take any steps this session with a view to amending the law in respect to criminal and civil actions for libel. second eeadings. The following Bills were read a second time: —Ashburton County Council Waterworks and Malvern Water-race Transfer Bills. LEAVE OP ABSENCE. One week’s leave of absence was granted to Mr Reader Wood. FIBBT READING. On the motion of the Hon. E. Richardson, a Bill to amend the Christchurch District Drainage Act, 1875, was introduced and read a first time. UAOBI PRISONERS BILL. The House went into committee on the Maori Prisoners Bill. Sir G. Geey, Mr De Latjtoub and others asked that Government would at once state what they proposed doing regarding the trial the prisoners.

i The Hon. J. Bbtcb said it was plainly the i intention of the Gorernment to release the i men without the necessity of resorting to a trial. It would be no use attempting to try them. Enough had already transpired to prore that eren if they were brought into Court they could not possibly be got to plead. It was nonsense to say that those men had resorted to ploughing operations with a new of getting their claims brought under the notice of a judicial authority. In accordance with the orders of Te Whiti they had resorted to ploughing outrages for the express purpose of extending their own possessions, iney had shown a thorough contempt for European law, and had asserted that le Whiti was their cole law giver in fact their conduct throughout had gone to show that they were utterly indifferent to our Courts, and would not be got to plead at all. Mr J. Fhbbhab said that as a matter of policy they should be subjected to trial. If they were not they would be sent bsck and the opinion would get abroad that there was no law that could touch them. They would at once jump to the conclusion that Te Whiti’s prophecies had come true, and by that means a great evil would be wrought. He would propose as an amendment to the Bill a clause providing that these prisoners should be brought to trial before release. He would move that os an additional clause to the Bill. McDbLautoub moved the following amendment on clause 2—“ This Act shall remain in force until the last day of October, 1880, and no longer, unless the Governor shall be satisfied that it is necessary from time to time by proclamation to extend the date during which the Act shall remain in force for any period not exceeding t hree months ; provided also that no such proclamation shall have any force or effect at the close of the next session of Parliament.” The amendment was agreed to and the clause as amended passed.

On clause 3, Mr J. B. Pishes proposed an amendment providing that the prisoners waiting trial for default of entering into sureties to keep the peace may be detained in custody until the expiration of the Act. I On a division the amendment was lost by 25 to 34, and the clause as printed was passed. On clause 6, Mr Sheehan moved an addition providing that no prisoner shall be discharged unless he shall be released on his trial, according to law, in respect of the offence with which he is charged. On a division the amendment was lost by 26 to 35, and the clause as printed was passed. The Bill as amended was reported, read a third time by 36 to 25, and passed. OAIIABtT WATEEWOMB. The Oamaru Waterworks Act, 1875, Amendment Bill, was passed through committee, read a third time, and passed. NATIVE LANDS SALES BILL. The adjourned debate on the motion for the second reading of the Native Lands Sales Bill was resumed. Mr Tainui spoke in opposition to the provisions of the Bill. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. Major Te Whbobo continued the debate on the second reading of the Native Land Sales Bill. He asked the Government to allow the Bill to stand over till next session, and get the opinion of the Natives in the meantime. Mr Macandbbw said it would be well to refer the Bill to a committee. It contained a great many technicalities, which it was quite impossible to expect the House to muster. There was a mystery attached to the whole Bill, and he would ask the Government to adopt the suggestion he made. It seemed to him that the Bill proposed to give more power to the Native Land Court, and that was one great cause of all the Native difficulties. The Hon. Mr Bevoe said that the Bill did not deal with Native Lands Courts at all. Mr DeLautoub concurred in the opinion that the Bill ought to be sent to a committee to make a careful report. The Native Minister in introducing the Bill had not furnished all the particulars respecting its proposals. It proposed to deal with a million of money, and yet it had not been surrounded by those safeguards requisite for the administration of such a large sum. The Bill had to be considered in connection with the Native Lands Contracts Validation Act. The two measures had to be taken together, and yet the Native Minister did not say a word on the subject of the latter Bill. It was a matter of notoriety that large contracts were pending, and information on the subject ought to have been given. The Native Minister did not come before the House with his policy in a straightforward way. The policy of the Sales Bill was this: the Boards of the districts in which the lands were situate were to satisfy themselves that all parties are consenting parties. He would like to know how they ware to satisfy themselves on that subject. They could only do so by the employment of agents. He instanced the Auckland Land Board, and argued from its constitution that the land speculators would find its operations moat accommodating for their purposes. The present land purchase system clothed the Native Minister with too extensive powers. The present Government proposed to alter that policy, but they did not propose a safe means for protecting themselves against themselves, or from outside pressure. The agitation got up in Auckland by a company to get Native lands at Patere thrown off was alluded to at con- ' eidorable length. On that occasion the Native Minister was the only person solicitous about 1 securing the repayment of his advance, and no real regard was snown for the interests of the Natives. The deputation that waited on the Ministcrregarding Patere had been illegally in competition with tho Government for the purchase of these lands, and had the Minister done his duty he would have ordered them out of sight. Instead they were sent away fortified with the Minister’s promise. These men had been law-breakers to a far greater extent than the men who were kept in prison, and yet that was the way they wore treated by the Government. Correspondence connected with the transaction all through showed that the Native Minister was in confidential communication with these speculators and their solicitor, and no apparent regard was being had for the Natives or their interests. The whole affair was arranged in a manner which loft the Natives almost no alternative but to consent to the translation. The Native Minister was playing a double hand negotiation, directly with speculators and at the same time smoothing over tho Natives and telling them that if he wore to be offered £14,000 he could not agree to remove the proclamation, as he could only take the money from the owners, and yet at this very time he was intimate, in fact on the most confidential terms, with tho solicitor for the speculators. Such an example of double dealing was discreditable to the colony, and no consideration of pecuniary advantage to tho colony could possibly excuse it. The whole transaction evidenced duplicity highly discreditable to the Native Minister. The correspondence showed that the Native Land Court had even been used to advance these designs, and yet this was the Court whose power they were asked to extend by this Bill. The whole thing proved that the Minister and the company were on the most intimate terms as regards these negotiations, and yet the Minister told them he was no party to the transaction. Then, again, they found the Act had been strained in the most monstrous manner, to enable the Court to deal with the block at all. The judge intimated that unless tho Native Minister assented he would not put the blocks through, and that assent was given by the Minister. They could now see how a certain member had not been in his place for so long a time. He was interested in keeping away until the transaction wae settled. It pained him to go into these transactions, but he was forced to do it. Ho hoped that the Native Minister would bo prepared to meet these charges, and ho would be glad if he could meet them satiafactorily. Captain &US3SLL regretted the digression, still he thought the Native Minister was to blame for having attempted to draw a red herring across the scent. Ho believed that it was necessary for tho benefit of the Natives themselves to have a perfectly free system in dealing with these lands. He denied that the Native Lands Courts had been tho origin of , the evils. He noted that no Native Lands Bill had ever been brought down which satisfied the Native members. Ho was afraid it would not be possible to frame a Bill that i would be acceptable to these gentlemen in all respects. In many instances the accusations i made against parties and their agents engaged in the purchase of these wore no 1 doubt to some extent true, but it was a mistake to think that thcee parties

hod been loss scrupulous than the Government land purchasers. It was absolutely necessary that they should give facilities to get land into the hands of .Europeans, and as a pro liminary it was impossible to avoid allowing the lands in the first instance to go into the bands of that much-abused individual, the land shark. It was for the most part rough, without roads or bridges, and utterly unfit for the purposes of a small farm population. It was a well-known fact that these lands had to pass through three hands before they were fitted for settlement. It was quite impossible that they could perfect any system whereby these lands might be got from the Natives and put into the hands of small capitalists with advantage either to themselves or the country. They ought to insist on the individualisation of the Bill, and a clause should be embodied in the Act compelling the Natives to take legal advice in selling their lands. That would be of great importance to the Natives, as it would be the means of protecting them from fraud, and on the other hand it would tend to confirm the title in the hands of a bond fide purchaser. It would facilitate matters if trustees were appointed to act on behalf of the Natives, It was hard that a purchaser should be compelled to get the consent of as many as 200 Natives for the sale of one block. He would support the motion, and when the Bill got into committee he would bo prepared to suggest certain amendments. Mr Tawhai spoke in opposition to the Bill. , ~ - Sir W. Fox said, that while the Maori members had invariably denounced the land laws brought down, they had never favored the House with an exposition of the measures they desired substituted. It was a difficult problem to solve, and by way of relieving them of the difficulty ho would suggest that the Government should offer a reward to any one producing a Bill that would satisfy all sides of the House. The Natives had talked about the indirect taxation they paid on their lands, and pointed to the large profits made by the Government on the sale of these lands. He had to remind them on the other hand that until the Europeans came here and constitutional Government was established, their lands were practically valueless. The fact was that the Natives were practically exempt from taxation altogether. Another complaint was that the Native office had been filled up with Europeans, and not Natives. Ho admitted that such was the case, but reminded them that that the attempt made to import Natives into the department proved an utter failure. When they came to the country the right of purchase was vested in the Queen; subsequently that right was shared in by private persons. Then came a law by which the Government simply took up the position of standing by to see that the purchase was conducted fairly as between the Europeans and Natives. The Bill now before the House proposed to make Waste Bands Boards stand between the purchaser and the Natives. Ho was prepared to support this Bill, the principles of which he was pleased with. He believed that they might very judiciously import into the Bill a special settlement principle, that system having in his opinion been one of the greatest incentives to colonisation that had existed in New Zealand. The Hon. W. Gisbobnb supported the second reading of the Bill.

Mr Baiiasob recognised tbo difficulties that attended the purchase of lands direct from Natives. The Natives had not confidence in the Waste Lands Boards to administer their estates. It might be considered how far it was advisable to modify the constitution of these Boards to meet the circumstances by providing for Native representation on them. Free trade in land meant that a few speculators and capitalists should secure a monopoly of these lands, which must of necessity get into the hands of men of large means, and in support of that contention ho instanced the case of Manawatu, which had been out up from the first into small holdings. While approving of the principles of the Bill he believed that in Committee it would have to undergo certain modifications. Ho would support the motion, Mr Moss regarded the Bill as an avowal on the part of the Government to abandon all land purchases in future. He was afraid that the Bill would not work, as the Natives would not be induced to take advantage of the Waste Lands Board. Again, if put into the hands of a Board, the delays under the Bill would be so numerous that the chances were it would be taken out again long before it could bo sold. He favored the idea of trustees being appointed to deal with the Native lands. If they passed the Bill without providing an alternate means for disposing of the lands, he believed they would be doing an injustice, and he would vote against it. Mr Tamoana did not consider that the proposals of the Bill were satisfactory from a Native point of view. The Maoris should be consulted about any Bill of the kind. Mr Tainui spoke in opposition to the Bill. At 1.15 the House divided on a motion to adjourn the debate—Ayes, 18 ; noes, 27. The debate proceeded. Mr Hamlin moved the adjournment of the House, and a desultory discussion followed. The Hon. J. Hall regretted that members wasted time in preference to going on with business, and accused the Native members of being put up to talk against time and to stonewall. , Messrs Tb Wheoeo and Tawhai deni 3d this. The Hon. J. Hall stated he would agree to adjourn the debate if it were resumed at 2.30 next day. Mr Sheehan and others objected to the private members’ day being taken for Government business.

Ultimately the motion of the adjournment of the House was negatived, and the adjournment of the debate till 2.30 on Wednesday afternoon was agreed to. The House rose at 2.15 a.m.