GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1994, 15 July 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[pee PBES3 ASSOCIATION SPECIAL WIEB ]

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, Judy 14, In the Legislative Council, At the request of Sir P. D. Bede, the Hon. J. T. Peacock’s motion re honorarium was adjourned till next day. Mr Peacock and the Speaker expressed themselves perfectly satisfied with the explanation given re the misreport of the motion. The Hon. Mr Menzibs moved—“ That the Education Act be so amended as to permit of the Bible being read in schools, subject to a conscience clause.” The mover spoke for an hour without adducing any new argument in favor of the proposal. The Hon, E. Whitakbe, in summing up the reasons in favor of the present system, said that Government were firmly determined to resist any change to the present Act, Several speakers followed, all deprecating the raising of the question, but asserting that education could be much economised. Ultimately the previous question was carried by 14 votes to 8. Upon the motion for the third reading of the Deceased Wife's Sister Bill, The Hon. Mr Acland moved that it be thrown out. The Hon. Dr. Gbacb pointed out that a man who married hie sister-in-law here might travel to England and there discard her while the English law was unaltered. The third reading was carried by 14 votes ' to 9. A large amount of important business was 1 disposed of, and the Council adjourned at 5 1 p.m. i HOUSE OF EBPRE3ENTATIVES- < i Wednesday, July 14, 1 The House mot at 2.30 p.m. NOTICES OF MOTION. ( Mr Muebat gave notice that he would i move on the 21st inst—l. That, subject to < approval and confirmation by Parliament, 1 Government should invite offers for the purchase of a half interest in sub-sections of the i public railways as from time to time it may ’ bo considered for the public advantage to deal with, on the following terms: 2. Purchasers 1 to work such railways and to have all profits t thereon up to £3 per cent, on the price paid by 1 them ; thereafter, the profits up to £7 per i cent, to be yearly divided with the Govern- e mont. 3. Government to have the right to regulate freights and fares and inspect and e audit accounts by a Board properly oonsti- ( tuted. 4. Government to have the right to ( re-purohaso at a valuation any such ( half-interest, at any time after three ! years from the time of sale thereof by the i Government. 5. That from monies so received Government to advance to corporations i or individuals half the expenditure for con- I structing and completing such railways as i may from time to time be authorised by Parliament, and under sufficient safeguards and limitations as to cost and otherwise, and i upon the same terms and conditions as are i stated in paragraphs 2,3, and 4. 6. That ( corporations constructing railways under paragraph 5 through Crown and Native lands i should have special privileges of purchasing i for the purposes of settlement. i Dr. Wallis gave notice that he would move for the amendment of the Electoral Act of last session, so as to extend the franchise to leaseholders. PETITION. i Sir W. Pox presented a petition praying : for religious teaching in schools. QUESTIONS. I Replying to Mr Thomson, The Hon. T. Dick said he was in possession . of information showing the extent to which i settlement had advanced under the Land Act i Amendment Act Amendment Act of last session, and specially under clauses relating to village and special settlements, and that it would appear in the report of the Crown 1 Lands Department. i Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. R. Oliteb said that an Inspeo- 1 tor of Coal Mines had been appointed but not an Inspector of Gold Mines for the I Middle Island. The cost of such an appoint- 1 mont would be very considerable, and in the present state of the finances be did not think such an expense could be judiciously incurred. Replying to Mr Tainui, The Hon. W. Rollebton said that Government were desirous of affording every facility for Native girls attending European schools and that instruction in needle-work would, as far as possible, be given. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. J. Hall said it was not the intention of the Government to erect police quarters, court house, etc., at Seventeen Mile Beach, Grey "Valley. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. "J. Hall eaid that the use of railway trucks had been given to the Westport Colliery Company, but the conditions would not be stringently enforced, as Government wished to encourage the development of the company. No bond had been given by the company. THE BIBLE IN SCHOOLS. Sir W. Eox moved—“ That in the opinion of this House the Education Act should be so amended as to provide for permissive power being granted to Education Boards to introduce the reading of the Bible in schools, subject to a time table and conscience clause.” He contended that it was the feeling of the majority of parents in the colony that the Bible should be read in schools. Ho admitted that he bad not much faith in the motion being carried at present, but professed hie belief that eventually it would be carried. He called upon the Government to take steps for ascertaining the opinions of parents npon this subject. He would suggest a house to house canvass. Nine-tenths of the population professed some form of religion based on Bible teaching, and yet that was the only hook prohibited. They might use books dealing with heathen mythology, or any other book they liked, but the Bible, the foundation of the faith of so many religions, was the only book excluded. They were practically speaking a Christian nation. In illustration of that, he pointed to the fact that they commenced the day’s proceedings with a Christian prayer. This colony and Victoria were the only places where the reading of the Bible was prohibited in schools. In America not only was it read, but the Lord’s Prayer and Christian hymns were used in school. He was in favor of a conscience clause and a time-table. By that means scrupulous minded people could keep their children away. In the London schools a conscience clause was in force, and it was found that only one child out of 400 was kept away during the reading of the Bible. The tendency to larrikinism he attributed to the non-reading of the Bible in schools, pointing out that the larrikin element was composed of the better class of boys. He asked them not to shirk the question. Dr. Wallis seconded the motion. Ho denied that the teachings of the Bible were exclusively of a religious character. It was a book from which intellectual training was to bo obtained, and as for moral teaching that was undoubted. The Hon. W. Rollebton could not support i the resolution, although he agreed with much i that had been said. The question was suri rounded by many difficulties, intensified by ecclesiastical feeling that had boon imported i into it. He believed that the popular mind was religious, but ho could not agree in the ; opinion thata’housa to house canvass would re--1 suit in favor of the reading of the Bible. i One-eighth of the population were Roman i Catholics, and it was no use saying that their ■ verdict would be in that direction. The t question was this : Would the introduction of I the Bill foster the national system of education ? He maintained that it would not.

The motion was inopportune, and if carried would destroy that system. It was wrong to say that the system of education admitted every description of book into school teaching. After considerable experience in America, they had come to the conclusion that moral and religious instruction were inseparable from their education system as a proper basis. He did not wish to see their school system driven back to denominationalism, nor yet did he wish to see it got wholly into the hands of a class having a contempt for all religious instruction. He believed that the public voice was in favor of their teaching being so far religious as the difference of opinion that existed in religion itself would permit. He could not agree that larrikinism was the result of their educational system. It had its root in other causes. The importation of families from different parts of the world without any fixed religious training, was to a great extent responsible for that state of things. Tho educational system as it stood had not yet had a fair chance of bearing fruit, and it would bo a great pity to destroy it before its results and effects were made known and felt. No denominational system could possibly bo founded iu this country; nothing but a national system of education could bo devised to reach the outside masses of children. Ho hoped they would pause before they attempted to break down a fabric which they had been at so much trouble to erect.

Mr Stews ht said that the reading of the Bible in schools was essential for the proper training of the children. In the Courts of Justice it was a most lamentable thing to find children, on being called in evidence, admitting that they knew nothing whatever about its teaching. In consequence of that lack of training it was not untrequontly found that the ends of justice were defeated. He heartily supported the motion, Messrs Saunders and leeland opposed the motion. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. NEW BILL. The Deceased Wife’s Sister Marriage Bill was received from the Council, and read a first time. CHAIBMAN OF COMMITTEE, On the motion for going into Committee, The Hon, J. Hail moved that Mr Hirst act pro tern, as Chairman of Committees. Mr Macandeew thought that an older and more experienced member should be selected. He named Mr Thomson.

Mr Sheimski formally moved Mr Thomson to the chair. Mr Andebws said that Mr Hirst’s selection was a most objectionable one. Sir G. Qeby blamed the Government for having taken the House by surprise on this occasion.

The Hon. T. Dick replied that 1 on a former occasion Mr Hirst had been nominated as Chairman pro iem. by a member on the other side, and he had discharged its duties satisfactorily. Mr Swanson said that in the Provincial Council Mr Hirst had had a considerable amount of experience in these duties, and he could see no reason why any opposition’should be male to the proposal. Mr Moobhousb suggested that the amendment should be withdrawn [if it could be done without disparagement to anyone. Mr Thomson said he was not consulted as to his name being put forward on this occasion. He was sensible of the honor intended, but he could not think of occupying the chair unless he was called to it unanimously. He asked that bis name might be withdrawn. Mr Reeves said that this was another attempt on the part of the Government to confer honors on a political partisan. He contended that Mr Hirst had not the confidence or respect of the House as a whole, and he looked on the proposal as a deliberate insult to that side of the House. Mr Baebon suggested that the Government could very easily find another member to preside who would not be objectionable to members. Mr Thomson’s name was withdrawn. Mr Seddon suggested that Mr Hirst’s name should be withdrawn, and with a view of at once ending the difficulty he proposed Colonel Trimble. Mr Macandeew suggested that the motion as it stood should be put at once. Those opposed to it could record their votes, and save time. Sir G. Geey appealed to the Government not to press the motion, seeing that it was so very objectionable to that side of the House. Mr Shephabd appealed to Mr Hirst to solve the difficulty, and decline to allow his name to be put to the vote. By that means ho would prove his fitness to be elected at eomo future time.

Colonel Teimblb said it was out of the question that a mere routine piece of business should be taken oat of the hands of the Government. He was sure that the Premier had no party feeling when they proposed Mr Hirst.

Mr Stewaet moved the previous question, but was ruled out of order, as there was an amendment.

Mr Speight urged that the matter should be decided by going to the vote at once. The Hon. J. Hall said that, after the the speeches made on the other side, it would be impossible for Government to withdraw from the position they had taken up, or for Mr Hirst to retire. He complained that these speeches were unjust, and designed to wound the feelings of an hon. member. Mr Reeves said that the Opposition knew that Government could put their man into the chair by brute force, still ho hoped they would see their way to withdraw. On the question that Mr Hirst’s name stand part of the question, the House divided Ayes, 37 ; Noes, 33. Mr Stewaet then moved the previous question. He pointed out that the division showed that there was a large proportions! the house against Mr Hirst. No man with any self-respect would think about occupying the chair with a bare majority of four m his favor. No one would occupy the chair who had not the unanimous, or all but unanimous, vote of the House. Mr Bunny seconded the motion.

The Hon. G. McLean said that Mr Stewart had been indebted to the Government party for his return for Dunedin, and when ho left that side of the House to join the Opposition did they attempt to persecute him as he attempted to persecute Mr Hirst. His (Mr Stewart’s) going over was one of the most barefaced cases of ratting that had ever taken place in the House. Ho left them because ce was to get a seat in the Government which never got into existence. Had Mr Stewart been proposed for the chair he could quite understand that not only would two-thirds of the members vote against him but they would actually walk out. He concluded by asserting that Mr Hirst was as fit a person for the chair as they could get in the House.

Mr Reeves eaid that with such a bare majority it wao quite impossible to say that Mr Hirst could conduct the business with any degree of credit to himself or advantage to the House. Mr Moobhousb said that the motion was simply a device to prevent effect being given to the voice of the majority. Mr Seddon argued that there was no majority ; at all events, not a majority which would warrant anyone taking the chair. Mr Lundon moved the adjournment of the House.

Mr Stewaet said that the member for Waikouaiti had gone out of his way to cast unjust aspersions on bis character. He could assert that he possessed the confidence of the public in as high a degree as the member for Waikouaiti. If he (Mr Maclean) persisted in these unjust aspersions, he would take the opportunity to have him brought before the Bar of tho House in a manner he did not expect. He defended his conduct in objecting to Mr Hirst, which was perfectly reasonable. The hon. member for Waikouaiti laughed, but he could make that hoc. member laugh in a very different way if ho liked.

The Hon. O. Maclean challenged Mr Stewart to make any personal revelations he could. Ho felt sure of this, that if Hr Stewart could do him any harm he would do it on the spur of the moment. The hon. member hud gone to Dunedin and got fifty of his friends to attend a meeting. In the course of his speech ho wearied out the few constituents that came to meet him, and after they hud gone they got his friends to pass a vote of confidence in him. Mr Stewaet denied the truth of this, and Mr Baeeon corroborated him. The motion for adjournment was negatived on the voices. The House divided on the motion that the question be now put—Ayes 41, Noes 37. Ayes—Messrs Adams, All wright, Atkinson, Bain, Beetham (teller), Brandon, Bryce, Dick, Driver, Sir ,W. Box, Messrs Pulton,

I Gibbs, Hall, Hirst, Hursthouse (teller), John- > ston, Kelly, Kenny, Levin, Mason, Masters, McLean, Moorhouse, Murray, Oliver, Ormond, Pitt, Richmond, Richardson, Rolleston, Russell, Saunders, Stevens, Studholme, Sutton, Swanson, Trimble, Wakefield, Whitaker, Wood, Wright. Nobs—Messrs Andrews, Ballance, Barron, Brown, Bunny, De Latour, Finn, Fisher, J. 8., Fisher, J. T., George, Gibson, Sir G. Grey, Messrs Hamlin, Harris, Hutchison, Jones, Lundon, Macandrew, McDonald, Montgomery, Moss, Reeves, Reid (teller), Seddon, Shanks, Shephard, Shrimski, Speight, Stewart (teller), Tainua, Tawhai, Te Wheoro, Thomson, Tole, Tamoana, Turnbull. Willis. Mr Beeves said that in the present frame of mind in which the House was it was plain that no business could be done. Ho moved that the House now adjourn. Mr Turnbull seconded. Mr Hirst said that the Premier had asked him to take the chair that evening. Beyond that he had nothing to do with the matter. He felt that ho would hove been doing himself an injustice if ho had, os he was strongly disposed to do, followed the example of the member for Olutha and retired. The main objection against him was that he had scon it to bo his duty to change sides. He did it in all good faith, but at the'same time ho felt it was an injustice to him to try to destroy his public reputation. Ho regretted what had transpired that evening, and he now begged to withdraw from the position to which he had been votod. Aspersions had boon oast on him by members whom he hardly know, and he felt he had been most unjustly treated. The Hon. J. Hall said that tho conduct of the Opposition forced the Government to insist on tho motion. Now, however, that Mr Hirst wished to retire Government would not object. At the same time ho desired to express the opinion of tho Government that the course adopted by Mr Hirst had been a dignified one. Mr Beeves withdrew his motion for adjournment. IN COMMITTEE. The House went into Committee on the Members of tho General Assembly Expenses Bill. After a few unimportant clauses had been considered, The Hon. G. McLean moved that progress be reported. The House divided—Ayes, 34 ; Noes, 33. Progress was reported, and the Bill made an Order of the Day for that day week. Tho House went into Committee on tho Dentists Bill, which was passed with amendments. The House wont into Committee on the Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill, Subsection 2 of danse 1, was struck out on a division by 27 to 20. Clause 19 was struck out. At 12.30 the House adjourned.