GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1988, 8 July 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[pub pbbss association special wibb.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. / Wednesday, July 7. In the Legislative Council, The Hon. Mr Williamson was given fourteen days' leave. The Hon. F. Whitakbb promised the Hon. Colonel Whitmore to make known in a few days the intention of Government re the late Volunteer outrages. The Building Societies Bill, Animals Protection Bill, Married Women's Property Bill, and Dog Registration Bill were read a third time and passed. The Thames Water Supply Bill passed through Committee. The Hon. Colonel Whitmobe gave notice to ask if all future appointments to the Civil Service, in view of the proposed reductions, will be made from those discharged. On the motion for the third reading of the Native Land Court Bill the Hon. N. Wilson moved that it should be thrown out, which, after a short disoussion was negatived by 21 votes to 5, and the Bill read a third time. The Native Succession Bill and Native Land Frauds Prevention Bill, and various Bills were further advanced in committee. The Council adjourned at 5 p.m. Wednesday, July 7. The Houbo met at 2.30 p.m. NOTICES OP MOTION. Sir W. Fox gave notice that he would ask if an officer employed in the railway department who was paid a salary of £ISOO per annum received a bonus from the Government of £SOO, and if bo, by whose authority that bonus was paid. Mr Shephabd gave notice that he would ask if a statement in defence had been made by the North Island Railway Commissioner similar to that made by the South Island Railway Commissioner. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Macandrew, The Hon. R. Oliyeb said that Joseph White, who gave evidence before the Civil Service Commission at Christchurch, was simply employed as a temporary clerk, and so soon as the work was done his services were dispensed with. Replying to Mr Thomson, The Hon. J. Bbycb said that no fresh negotiations for the purchase of Native land had been entered into by the Land Purchase Department since the accession to office of the present Government. Replying to Mr Finn, The Hon. W. Rollbston said it was intended to orect a lock-up at Queenstown, and as far as possible to minimise the number of small district gaols throughout the colony. Replying to Mr Finn, Tho Hon. R. Omveb said t was true that the running of the daily train between Lumsden and Kingston has been altered to a tri-weekly one, the estimated saving being £9OO a year. Replying to Mr Tamoana, The Hon. J. Hall said it was not intended to bring forward a Bill this session to increase the number of Maori members. NEW BILL. The Hon. T. Dick introduced the Hawkers and Pedlars Bill, which was read a first time. THB LAND PTJND. Mr Pykk moved—" That in the opinion of this House the balance of the surplus Otago and Canterbury land funds should be paid to the inland counties of those provincial districts, on the same principle as sanctioned by the House in re payment of subsidies to the said counties on account of the year 1876." The Hon. J. Hall thought'that the House had not sufficient evidence upon which to decide the question. He would suggest that the matter be referred to the Public Accounts Committee. The suggestion was adopted and a motion to that effect put and carried. MISCELLANEOUS. The following motions were put and carried : By Mr J. B. Fishbb that there be laid before the House a return showing in respect of each postal town in the colony—(1) The number of officials, other than police, holding office in such town ; (2) the offices filled by each official; (3) salary paid in respeot of each office ; (4) the total salary paid to eaoh officer. , By Mr Georob, that there be laid before the House a return showing the area of Crown lands in the county of Rodney, and also the area of Native lands in the same county. By Sir G. Gbby, that all papers laid before the House relating to the Patere block of land be ordered to be printed. Mr Rbid moved—" That it be an instruction to the printing and debates committee to enquire and report to the House in what manner retrenchment can be best effected in the cost of publication of ' Hansard.' " He explained that the cost of "Hansard" had averaged £6OOO per annum for the last five years. The corrections alone averaged £I3OO, and it was thought that some means might be devised to reduce the outlay. Mr Bain, in seconding the motion, said that as a member of the committee he would be prepared to go into the matter hoartily, but hoped their report and recommendations would receive more consideration than a similar report received last session. The Hon. Major Atkinson agreed to the motion, which was carried. Mr Adams moved that there be laid before tho House the three petitions presented by Butter, late keeper of the Nelson Lunatic Asylum, and the correspondence between him and the Government.

Mr Pitt opposed it, and said that ample justice had already been done to the petitioner in the matter. The papers contained disgusting details, and he thought the motion should be Withdrawn.

The motion was put and negatived. Mr Tomoana moved that the speeches of the Maori members delivered in the House be printed for circulation among the Natives. Mr Muekay suggested that the motion be referred to the Reporting Debates Committee to be considered in conjunction with the remit made about " Hansard."

Sir W. Fox said there was no reason why the Natives should not have a paper of their own publishing this and other information. Effortß in that direction had hitherto failed for want of support. Had the Natives subscribed freely they might have had a flourishing paper. It was a slur on the Natives themselves that a good Native organ did not exist. A kind of Maori "Hansard," with only the Maori members' speeches would, however, be a very meagre affair. If they could got a translation of " Hansard " as a whole it might do good. He agreed in the proposal to refer the question to the Committee.

The Hon. J. Hail agreed in the opinion that to make a translation useful it would have to be a summary of " Hansard " as a whole. The present was a moßt unfortunate time. If the Natives could establish a paper then the Government might subsidise it to tho extent of giving a translation of the parliamentary proceedings. He supported the proposal to remit the question to the Debates Committee.

Mr Speight thought it unfair to ask the Maori members to subsoribe anything for getting their speeches circulated. Members as a whole might just as 'well be asked to bear a similar expense for the circulation of their speeches. After some further discussion, the suggestion for referring the matter to the Debates Committee was adopted, Mr Reeves moved that a return be prepared and laid before the House, showing under separate headings the quantity and value of all the manufactured articles imported to the colony during the last financial year. The motion was withdrawn. Mr McDonald moved—" That all correspondence between the Government and Land Purchase Office of the East Coast distriot or any other person relative to negotiations for the Mutaia and Oarangi blocks at Wairarapa, East Coaßt, be laid beforo the House." The motion was put and sgreod to. Mr Tubnbtjll moved—" That a return be laid before the House showing the amount of money paid to Messrs Grant and Forster or any other persons for expenses in connection with the vißit of those gentlemen to the colony." The motion was agreed to. The Hon. J. Hall moved—" That tho report of the Controller and Auditor-General . on the subject of the payment of £3OO to Mr ■ Sievwright be referred to tho Public Accounts Committee."

Mr Whitakbe said that in connection with this matter rumors had been circulated connecting the absence of the late Native Minister •with this transaction. No such thing was the case. Mr Sheehan was engaged

conducting urgent judicial business which would close that day. He had every confidence that when Mr Sheehan did arrive in Wellington he would acquit himself. The motion was put and carried. Dr. Wallis moved—" That this House is of opinion that Government should cease to borrow further, either for the purpose of carrying on the immigration and public works policy or for defraying any portion of the ordinary expense of Government." The discussion was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House met at 7.30 p.m. NOTICE OP MOTION. The Hon. J. Hall gave notice of motion for rescinding the order that the House rises at 12 30 a.m. PAYMENT OP MBMBBBB. Mr Sbddon moved the second reading of the Members of the General ABSombly Expenses Bill. The liberal measures of which they had heard so much would not be complete without a measure of this kind. As members, they ought to bo placed in a more independent position than they were placed. In despite of what had been said to the contrary, he argued that the members of the Upper Chamber were entitled to be reimbursed reasonable expenses. It was not the intention of the Constitution Aot that members of the Upper House should be men of large means, and bo long as that was the case they were bound to recognise their claims for payment. They were net put to the same expenses as members of the other Chamber, consequently he had fixed the amount at half that proposed for members of the House of Representatives. It had been argued that this was an inopportune moment to bring forward such a proposal. His reply was, that as they had not more than eighteen months before going to the country, and by affirming the principle the country would have an opportunity for expressing its views on the point. It was the wish of the people that members should be paid, as evidenced by the fact that on the occasion of the late election none but Liberal members were returned. On that acoount he argued that this Bill was demanded. A _ certain amount of expense was inevitable at an election, no matter how oarefully they might guard these with the Corrupt Practices Bill, and if nothing in the shape of reimbursement was provided for them tho contests would be limited among the fewest number. On that account the Triennial Parliaments Bill without a measure of this kind was not complete. He instanced a number of plaoei in which this course was followed, and argued that that course had been approved of by the popular voioe. He did not care if the amount was fixed at £IOO. All he desired was that they would be spared the pain of a sessional wrangle over this honorarium question ao had all along been the case. Mr Moss seconded."

Tho Hon. J. Hall acknowledged the spirit in which the measure had been brought forward. It was a mistake to say that the other chamber represented property, and if they laid it down that members of that chamber were not to be paid, they would exclude some of the most valuable members from taking their seats. Still, while he admitted that reasonable provision should be made, he hoped they would be careful not to fix upon a sum that would make it a matter of personal profit to members. He agreed with the importance of getting the matter placed on a permanent footing. Under ordinary circumstances he would have supported the Bill. Just now in the existing circumstances he oould not do so. They were cutting down expenses in every direction, and if they settled the question now they would be compelled to fix the amount at a lower rate than they would otherwise. Hence the measure would not be a final settlement. Having affirmed the principle, he hoped tho mover would be content and withdraw the Bill.

Mr Moss said that payment of members had been a recognised principle all along, therefore they were not introducing something that was new, but merely establishing a recognised rule. It would be better if amount was understood and recognised as one of the permanent charges of the colony. Without payment of membors they oould not expeot to have more than one class represented, and that was the monied class. The sum paid to the Legislature was as low as could possibly be made. Looking at other Legislatures, he found it was also, considering all the circumstances, far below the average. Then there was no Legislature so surrounded by disqualification as this was. They were called on to act as Royal Commissioner*, for which they could not take a farthing beyond aotual expenses. He would not make any distinction between this House and the other chamber but for the fact that its members had not the expense of contested elections to face. In Victoria the payment was £3OO, and he argued that the New Zealand Legislaturewas notless than other Legislatures. In England there were exemptions that thiß Legislature did not enjoy. They had no Disqualifications Bill, and he was told that on the Petitions Committee eaoh member gets a sum of £5. Without payment of memberß, the ballot, the extended franchise, and other liberal measures would not be of any praotical advantage. Dr. Wallis contended that a sum of £2lO was tho lowest figure at which the amount should be fixed. If a working man had the confidence of a constituency, it was but right that he should be plaoed in a poaition to come there. Regarding the Upper House, he contended that it should be made elective, and in that case they would do away with the grounds for distinction between the payment of members of this and the other ohamber. He heartily supported the measure

Mr Ghobge alluded to the fact that during a late evening's Bitting last session the honorarium was reduced. Next morning, on the fact becoming known, the utmost consternation was created in the lobbies among members. They went about crying out about what had been done, and the result was that the item was re-committed and again raised to its old figure. It was to prevent such an unseemly proceeding as that that this Bill was brought forward. In Committee of Supply he intended to move a reduction of the amount by 10 per cent. Mr Pitt said that in Committee of Supply ho would move that the honorarium to members of the Upper House be fixed at the same rate as that lor members of this House. He would vote that that amount be reduead in accordance with the principle of the reductions applied to the other branohes of the public service. Mr Mubbay moved that the Bill be read that day Bix months. The distinction that the Bill proposed as between members of the Counoil and the Lower Houbo was in his estimation invidious. Mr Babbon suggested to get over the difficulty that the honorarium this year of 200 guineas should be reduced 10 per ce ■ t., but that the amount should bo fixed at 100 guineas. That was not a farthing too much. They should put no restriction on the ohoioe of the people. Between them and the Civil Service there was a great difference, and the fact that they reduced the former was no reason why they should reduce the latter. Constituencies did not wish any reduction, and he would dispute the fact that a majority in the House wore pledged to support a reduction. He would oppose it. Mr Tamoana would vote that the Upper House be dealt with the same as this House. In that chamber they desired to make the laws equal to both races. Mr Sbddon replied that he could not understand how the Bill should be opposed while at the sa-r e time members acknowledged the principles of the Bill. He left himself in the hands of the Committee as regards the amount to bo decided upon. He did not think 200 guineas was a farthing too much, still ho would leave himself as regards that in the hands of the House. They were in the position of a lawyer and his client, and if they did the work of the country, liko the former, they wero entitled to be paid for their services. The motion was put and carried on the voices, and the Bill read a second time.

MISCELLANEOUS. Mr DeLautotjb moved the Becond reading of tlio Dentists Bill. He said that tho dentists of this colony were desirous _of raising their profession to a proper footing and at. tho same time to protest thoir interests. It was based on the principle of a similar measure passed at home. The motion was put and carried. Replying to Mr Pitt, The Hon. J. Hall said that Government intended to introduce a Municipal Corporations Amendment Bill this session. It would only contain a few amendments on the existing Act. The Houbo went into Committee on the Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill, tho various clauses of which were conlidered and amended. The House rose at 12.30.