GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1982, 1 July 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ■Wednesday, June 30. In the Legislative Council, The Hon. Mr laiaboa gave notice of motion that where lake draining was unjust to the Natives, as at Ellesmere, through spoiling their fishing, compensation should be made. In answer to the Hon. Captain Eraser, The Hon. P. Whitakeb said that a mining ■inspector had been directed to report whether the Shag Point Mine was properly venH'ated. Tho Alien Bill and Marriage Bill Statute Revision Bills were read a third time. The Bankruptcy Law Committee was given a month’s extension of time to bring up its report. The whole of the afternoon was occupied in the discussion of the Wellington Earing ■Club Bill, on a motion for its re-committal. The debate was merely of local interest, except a vigorous denunciation by the Hon. Colonel Brett of racing generally, as conducted in the colony, where acta were done such as no honorable men would do. He expressed his intention of opposing Racing Bills as long as he lived, in the interests of the rising generation, and he moved the throwing out of the present measure. This was negatived by 23 votes to 4, and the Bill re-committed. ■Some progress was made in committee with tho Dog Registration Bill, and the Council adjourned at 5 p.m. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, June 30. The House met at 2.30 p.m. CHINESE ISOIiaEATION. Mr Hutchison gave notice that he would introduce a Bill to restrict Chinese Immigration. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. W. Roldeston said that the rent payable for Government House at Hokitika was £3O. The value of the furniture ■was £3OO, and the rent was paid into the Treasury. ■ Replying to Mr Reeves, The Hon. J. Beycb said that the sum of £224 had been advanced upon Matahea and Orangi blocks at Waiaupa, East Coast, but was afterwards refunded, and the proclamation of the land was removed. The land was understood to bo in the occupation of Captain Porter, who was lei see of the block. It was not acquired by a land purchase agent. Stringent regulations prohibiting such agents from acquiring land while in the Government service were issued in 1878. A telegram was read from the Laud Purchase Agent, challenging inquiry into the allegation that he had so acquired property. Mr Stevens asked whether the colony had paid £BOO, or any of the sum, to plaintiff’s solicitors in the “ Waka Maori ” case more than ought to have been paid, and, if so, by whose authority. The Hon. T. Dick said that the same question was put on the previous day. Ho had discovered that he was in error in saying that no such payment had been made. He had now ascertained that a sum of £BOO had been so paid. It had been done by the authority of the late Native Minister.

Mr Stevens—Then may I ask the Government if they do not think that thiais a proper subject to be remitted for inquiry by the Public Accounts Committee.

The Hon. J. Hall replied in the affirmative, promising that that course would bo followed.

Replying to the Hon. W. Gisborne, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that the report of the Colonial Marine and Public Works Engineer on the breakwater at Timaru and the report of the Harbor Board of Timaru would be produced to-morrow. Replying to Mr Stewart, The Hon. T. Dick said that the Government did not see its way to alter ita determination in consideration of the numerous petitions from residents in the Provincial District of Otago i,to make provision in the Licensing Bill for bottle licenses. Replying to Major Harris, The Hon. W. Rolleston said that at on early day the Waimate Plains would bo sold. They were now being surveyed. Replying to Mr Pyke, The Hon. Major Atkinson said it was proposed to pay rates on all pastoral and agricultural land belonging to the Crown, but a enow covered mountain would bo excluded from the area.

Kaplying to Mr Tele, Tie Hon. W. Eollsston said that the recommendation of the Royal Commission to offer appointments in the civil service as prizss to be competed for by students of the Mew Zealand University was being considered, tut it had not yet taken a practical shape. Mo doubt Government was moat desirous of encouraging the pursuit of technical eduoa- ■ tion,and when the whole question came under

consideration Government would endeavour to make arrangements aooordingly. • ) Replying to Mr Thomson, s The Hon. Major Atkinson said that i £14,000 was estimated for stamp duty, i interest, and one-eighth per cent, commission I for the conversion of the loan. The estimate i was made on the last charge for the conversion of the two and a half millions. Replying to Mr Finn, The Hon. W. Rolleston said that the objection made by the Licensing Bench at Invercargill to the renewal of publicans’ licenses being granted, on the ground that their houses wore not constructed of briok, stone, or concrete, was done in pursuance of a Municipal by-law, and Government was not disposed to interfere with Licensing Commissioners in the execution of their duty. Replying to Mr Finn, The Hon Major Atkinson said that tho surplus Land Fund of Otago and Canterbury had been paid over in accordance with the Financial Arrangements Act. Replying to Mr Barron The Hon R. Olives said that the chief engineer for tho Middle Island had reported that there was no foundation for the statement made in the report of Royal Commission page 6 —“ Waggons built by contract at Dunedin wore delivered in Christchurch at the end of the year in a state thus described by a witness : some of these were disgraceful ; bad workmanship, bad timber; the ; timber was unseasoned ; stringy bark was put in instead of iron bark; joints not properly made ; some them had bottom frames held up by nails in the flooring boards. Some of them we have had almost to rebuild within six weeks.” Replying to Mr Barron, The Hon. B. Oliver said that a deposit of £IOO, with two bondsmen for £SOO, was required from lessees of railway refreshment rooms, and £5 deposit with similar bondsmen lor lessees of book stalls. Replying to the Hon. W. Gisborne, The Hon. Majoe Atkinson said that preliminary arrangements had been made for the quinquennial investigation of tho Government Insurance Department. No actuaries had yet been appointed. Replying to Mr Shrimaki, Tho Hon. R. Olives said that Government had not nor had they been asked to release the owners of tho Shag Point Coal Company 1 from any penalties contained in the penal clauses of the contract for supplying the Government with coals. 1 Replying to Mr Seddon, 1 The Hon. Majob Atkinson said that Government would be glad to equalise taxa- I tion as far as possible, but they could not say J that they would support any measure having ’ for its object the equalisation of taxation for local purposes upon gold miners and gold ' mining properties until they saw the measure. new bills. j The following Bills were introduced and j read a first time :—Legalising Payment of ‘ Members of the General Assembly (Mr j Seddon) to Amend tho Port Molynoux Reserves Leasing Act, 1876 (Mr Thomson), the * Fire and Marine Insurance Companies (Hon. * T. Dick), The Jackson Bay Settlement (the , Hon. W. Rolleston). J PEEBS TELE&BAMS. On the motion of the Hon. J. Hall, it . was agreed that a Select Committee be ap- J pointed to enquire into and report what further facilities can be given by the Govern- 1 ment to .the public press for the use of the telegraph. ■, NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE. 1 The Hon. G. McLean resumed the debate on j the no-oonfidence motion. In three years tho ] whole five million loan would be paid away for ] interest on our public debt. It would, he ( believed, take a large amount of misgovern- j ment to kill New Zealand, and still he had to j remind them that a very great deal of mis- t government had occurred. He counselled , them to forego factious opposition, and face ] the extremities of the case in a spirit of j honest determination to grapple with tho , difficulty. f Mr Seddon said that after what had been ( said about tho Civil Service and its abuses, he j for one would much rather go about begging , his bread than belong to such a service. That j service was the only outlet for a certain class. ] Had trade and manufactures been properly encouraged. there would have been a more ex- ( tended sphere for labor. He would look forward with interest to the report of the Local ( Industries Commission. The debate was interrupted by tho 5.30 p.m, j adjournment. j EVENING SITTING. 1 NO - CONFIDENCE DEBATE. I The House resumed at 7.30. Mr Seddon resumed the debate. He i charged tho Government with having obtainod their seats at the expense of damaging i the credit of the colony in the estimation of | the Home Country, Tho colony bad suffered i most severely through party tactics, and he | hoped they would hear no more of it. He i described tho beer tax as most crushing. He ] said he was not at all surprised that the tax 1 should have been protested against. The 1 Bill now on the table proposed to raise tho general license to £4O, and he contended that 1 it was not possible that one branch of in- I dustry could bear such a crushing impost. He j asked the Government to reduce it at least onehalt. He hoped that both sides would support I the Government in a firm manner for the way in ; which they had grasped Native affairs. He hoped they would soon see the Waimate plains open 1 for settlement, believing that that was tho i only true solution of the difficulty. There i wore only two alternatives for the Natives, i either to civilise or to exterminate them. For his own part, he would prefer seeing the former course pursued, believing as he did that they were a noble race, and in many : respects superior to the European. They ; would have to alter the constitution of Waste Lands Boards. In many instances these Boards were situated at too great a distance from the land. If companies were formed with sufficient capital to lease the railways, he would like to see them leased. It was a well ascertained fact that these works never were as economically worked by Government as by private enterprise. He believed that they would do much better without a Government at all. Let the heads of departments be i responsible direct to members of this House. The fact was they aimed at too much. Party politics were the curse of the colony, and he loped the day would come when it would all be swept away. It was not right that they should carry out retrenchment in such a way as to bring the administration to a stop. Ministers should be colled upon to make reductions gradually, and compensation should be paid in cases involving particular hardship. He did not intend to vote with tho Government, but on the question of local finance he was with them. In alluding to tho property tax, he advocated the imposition of a license fee of £4O on all doctors and lawyers. He would not consent to the proposal for the Government to pay rates on Native land. The proposal was preposterous, and there, would be an outcry against it from one end of the colony to the other. They were told that in many districts tho Natives actually volunteered to pay their rates. The proposition was a most unfair one, and he hoped to see the proposal amended. He thought thot the sooner the House was dissolved tho better for the country. The Hon, Majob Atkinson said ‘.hat the Government was bound to reply to the many accusations made against them. It seemed to him that the purpose of the House was to discuss the financial proposals of the Government rather than to discuss tho shortcomings of Ministers. Such being the case, the discussion had taken place under most unfavorable auspices. He would pass over a large number of points, because they would have to be re-argued. Points had been raised personally to himself. It had been asserted that bis finance had consisted mainly of Treasury bills. Ho would put a few facts before them to show how far these allegations were correct. Ha would go back to 1870. It had been said that the people of tho colony were responsible for the present state of affairs. He would show that they were not. To do that he would divide the period from i 1870 to 1875 and 1877 to 1879, when the member for the Thames was ejected from office. Ho blamed the difficulty up to 1877 to i the fact that the provinces had not been . abolished. From 1875 they took their votes in large sums from the Government, and were left to spend these as they liked. • In 1875 all standing votes were re- • pealed, and since then to 1877 the i House had absolute knowledge of all that I was going on. In 1877, when ho left office, it was stated that there was a deficit. Ho had prepared, with the aid of the Secretary to the - Treasury, a statement which would show that o in September there was in the Treasury a sum s of £909,000. Tho labilities wore £980,000, e so that would have left tho colony somo 1, £BO,OOO to the bad led it been wound up at ). that time ; but of £276,000 for land purchase f only to the present date £98,000 had been paid, so that in reality when tho late Govern - r ment took office there was a sum of £IOO,OOO

■ in the Treasury. Out of £333,000 of Treasury bills issued, £282,000 had been paid directly to the provinces. That was the full extent to which he had committed the colony to Treasury bills. It was exceedingly fortunate, considering tho state which the provinces wore in, that more of these bills wore not issued. When Mr Macandrew took office there was ample means on hand to meet all liabilities. Then the House voted for him two and a half millions for general works. At the end of that year he had to his credit about two millions for public works. Tho truth was the hon. member got more than he asked for. He asked for four millions—one million to take up the loan of 1876, £500,000 for provincial liabilities, £833,000 for Treasury bills, and £300,000 to repay the Public Works fund. They relieved him of the last two items, and showed him that £300,000 was enough for provincial liabilities. The House would then see that they had actually given him more than he asked for. That of itself proved that he was not embarrassed as he had attempted to make out. They were then told that tho country was in such a flourishing condition that fresh taxation was not necessary. That was their verdict after they had had time to examine into the maladministration of tho late continuous Government. That was in tho year 1878, and ho had demonstrated that everything was at that date in a satisfactory state. It is evident that the responsibility for their present condition dates from that year. They proposed to rely upon nn enormous land fund ; they based their estimated expenditure on a land revenue of two millions. Tho Minister for Public Works proposed to borrow three millions to complete his scheme. The fact was that he had got flvo millions, and he loft them to say how far tho scheme was completed. When the member for tho Thames loft office, ho left in the Treasury a sum of £BI,OOO, against which he loft liabilities, including deficiency bills, of three and a-half millions. They had actually, during their term of office, received in hard cash, £4,243,000, and they left, as ha had sa'd, a liability of three and a-hulf millions. These wore tho men that asked to replace them in the administration. He would supply detailed particulars of what ho had said, and if the member for Port Chalmers failed to call for that proof, he would ask tho House to accept what he said as absolutely true. Ho would say that the statement on the table of the House was certified to by the auditors.' They had also trifled with the credit of tho colony. They were content to let month after month go, and depend upon tho telegraph being up, whether they paid interest or not. The hon, member actually wished the Agent-General to get an advance to pay interest on loan due in August, September, and October, in tho hope that he would get authority from the House, which he did not call together till July, to raise a loan. He asked the Agent - General to got an advance on that projected loan. That was the kind of finance they carried on, and yet in the face of these emergencies tho hon. member told his constituents at Port Chalmers that it would have been a good thing for the colony if the loan had missed fire. The hon. member says “No.” Will ho toll us where he was going to get the money to keep hia engagements in London p Mr Macandebw—By the issue of Treasury bills. The Hon. Major Atkinson—Yes, that is very like the resource “ Tho Lord will provide.” Regarding tho five million loan, Parliament was not called together till tho latest moment. There was no reason why Parliament should not have been summoned two or three months before. When they did meet, he proposed a Loan Bill for tho £5,000,000. Tho Opposition were obliged to swallow this without the least consideration in order to provide interest which should have been provided for before. That was the position the hon. member left them in. Who, then, was responsible for the present state of affairs ? It was not tho scheme of 1870, or the Government of 1877, as they left money to meet all their liabilities. Major Atkinson was not to blame, as he left sufficient money to meet all the liabilities he had incurred, nor were tho people of New Zealand to blame, for tho moment their voice could he heard they ejected those gentlemen from office. It was now narrowed to a small compass. The persons responsible were—Mr Ballance, who persuaded the people that they had means they did not possess ; the member for Port Chalmers, for having manufactured a paper land fund, and entered into engagements accordingly; and lastly and most of all, the responsibility mainly rested with the member for the Thames, as ho was the head of this Government—who had undertaken to introduce thrift and economy into the Government, and who permitted all these things to go on. In fact it went on by his authority, when a word from him would have put a stop to it. It was unfortunate that the local finance scheme should be discussed before they knew what it was. The Bill would be down in a few days, when he would bo prepared to discuss the proposal. The talk about the repudiation in connection with the abolition of the subsidies was absurd. Either they had to abolish the subsidies, pay them out of loan, or impose fresh taxation to pay them. That was the spirit in which he wished them to approach the subject. What ho proposed was, to make the expenditure and revenue for the forthcoming year square each other by carrying forward £225,000 of tho liabilities. They must bear in mind that they would next year have to provide £IOO,OOO additional for interest, or in round numbers they would have to provide next year an additional sum of £350,000. ■ The most ardent rotrenohers had not attempted to reduce the expenditure more than £250,000, so that £IOO,O-0 would still remain to be provided for. In that case they would see that fresh taxation was absolutely necessary. Government proposed to deal with the matter by retrenchment, the property tax, a tax on beer, and an increase of the Customs duties. Parties in tho house had demurred to tho mode in which tho tax was to be levied on property, and the amount of the beer tax. Government recognised the importance of retrenchment, but that could only be accomplished by dismissing unnecessary officers and reducing salaries. Little saving could be made this year in dismissals, as the officers dismissed would have to be compensated. If they were to do anything appreciable it would have to be done by reducing the public conveniences, and the salaries payable to officers. Ho would toll them what had been done already in that direction. Taking tho expenditure on ten of the principal classes for 1878-79, the expenditure was £1,675,000. On that expenditure they proposed a reduction of £105,000. They had not then tho report of tho Civil Service Commission, nor did they know that the House would support them in that dilection. Now that they did know it, when they went into Committee each Minister would bo prepared to say what further reductions could be made in their departments. They were trying in earnest to reduce the expenditure within a reasonable limit. They had been accused of imposing crushing taxation. He pointed out that over the estimate of revenue for 1878-9, as made by the late Government, all they proposed in the shape of taxation was £246,000. Had the late Government been in office, he had reason to suppose that a much heavier taxation would have been proposed. They had gone some length in that direction if report were true. It was stated that they had prepared au Income Tax Bill and an increase of tho Land Tax to twopence per acre. That was a lively prospect for the country. He denied that the property tax would go down to the working men. The statement was absurd. Working men were not alone dependent on wages ; mony of them were to a certain extent men who had properties, consequently they had a very great say in tho regulating of wages. He had not been able to understand what was meant by the property income tax, as spoken of. He held that they should never touch man himself as long as hia property was sufficient for tho purpose. Tint was the real distinction between the property tax and tho income tax. The latter was tar more inquisitorial and difficult of collection than tho former. Had the member for Christchurch consulted the Act he would have found that ho was not entitled to give the assessors any of the information ho mentioned in his speech, but tho information relating to real property, and that information could have been got by anybody who took the trouble to consult tho public register. They had been told that the property tax would drive away capital and prevent improvements. Tho fact was that English capital was coming into tho colony very i largely, and, so far’ns ha could hear, none of the : monetary institutions of the colony had the i slightest fear of the tax. Any capitalist i afraid of tho tax was better out of the colony ■ than in it. He could not believe his own ) ears when he was told that the tax would

stop improvements. Say a land owner had £IOOO in the bank ; he would have to pay leas if he expended it in fencing, &3., than if ho loft it undisturbed in the bank. In fact, the tax gave a direct premium for improvements. They had been told it would affect the springs of industry. He was told that that was machinery ; but ho understood that it was the bone and sinew and brain power of the country. Well, that was not taxed. Machinery was simply the result of accumulated capital, not the springs of industry. That was simply protection. One man invested £IOOO in land, and another his £IOOO in machinery ; the one was to be protected from taxation, while the other was to bo subjected to it. Ho now came to the question of exemptions. Ho thought some exemptions were fair enough. To make exemptions such as machinery would bo to break thte principle of the tax. Ho did not think tae exemption of personal effects touched tlßb principle, although ho had yielded very unwillingly to it. Ho hoped the property tax valuation would be generally accepted by local bodies, and if this were done, the cost of the property tax would be very small to the country. Ho condemned the land tax as a most vicious one, and the idea of its reaching the unearned increment was fallacious. The Government, if they remained in office, would next year bring in a Bill to prohibit entail, and regulate the bequeathal of land, as they felt that the acquisition of large landed estates in families would be most injurious to the colony. They had no sympathy however with the attempt to burst up largo estates by a land tax. He had adopted the beer tax moat unwillingly. He did not think it would yield more than he had estimated from the experience of the fifty-nine days it was in force last year. [This message was unfinished at 2 a.m., when the telegraph office was closed.]