THE MINISTER FOR LANDS.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1871, 21 February 1880, Page 3

THE MINISTER FOR LANDS.

DEPUTATION OF THE CO OPEEATIVJE LAND SOCIETY. A deputation representing the Co-operative Land Society waited upon the Hon. Mr Bolleston, Minister for Lands, at the Provincial Council Chamber this morning, at ten o'clock. The deputation was accompanied by two of the city members, viz., Messrs E. O. J. Stevens and S. P. Andrews. Mr Baeeley said that the object of the deputation was to ask Mr Eolleston whether the Government would grant a block of land to certain working men in Christohurch. The deputation represented working men here who were desirous of settling on a block of land, and they now asked Mr Bolleston to give them a decided answer to their application. Mr Bolleston said he gathered from the communications received from the association that the great proportion of the members were agricultural laborers. 'Mr S. -P. Andrews said he • desired to inform Mr Bolleston that the company had set aside the old prospectus, and came to the Government under the Act and asked for the land under the same conditions that Mr Vesey Stewart had received his land. The company proposed to appoint trustees, to make deposits, and pay monies. Mr Bolleston Eaid that unfortunately the statement before him sent to him by the company was at variance with this. It said the persons applying for the land were agricultural laborers, without prospect of employment except from publio works. Mr Stevens explained that he understood this to mean that the persons referred to were dependent upon the publio works in the locality where they were residing. Mr Baseley said this was his case. Mr Bolleston said the Government must proceed very carefully in this matter. The Act contemplated that the persons forming the settlement should be .prepared to undertake the settlement of the block proposed, and pay a certain amount of money, and that they were not dependent upon the Government for subsistence. Mr Stevens said he understood the application made was this—that they desired to pay certain deposits through trustees and take up land subject to regulations, the same as anyone else—Mr Stewart for instance. So far as be had been informed, the question of Government employment did not enter into it heyond inadvertently, as it would in any other .case. Mr Baseley said that this was the case. Mr Kent said they desired to have the blocks of land altogether, so that they might work the land together. They might have applied for their sections individually if they were certain to obtain them together. Mr Bolleston said that the deputation would see that he was obliged to deal with this matter somewhat diffidently, becauao the statement he had received was quite at varianoe with what was now stated by the deputation. It would, therefore not be wondered at that he desired to know exactly what were the objects of the association, because on the face of the statement he referred to it did not appear that the association were persons ready to invest capital. The special settlement clauses gave the Government power to deal individually with persons for the settlement of any particular block of land, but this would require large capital. But again there were the deferred payment clauses, which would enable the working men to aoquire land easily. Now he had had put into bis hand a description of certain blocks. But he desired to point out that before the Government could deviie a block of land to a deputation like the present, they would require to know what block was required, what the people so applying were going to do with it, and their numbers, .&o. Now, he spoke plainly upon the subject, and he desired to point out to the deputation that they had not supplied him with that information whioh would warrant him in granting their request. Mr Andrews said that Mr Bolleston would recollect that the unemployed had held a num.-' ber of meetings in Christchurch, and that the Government had had to assist the city authorities in dealing with the matter. Out of that agitation grew up this suggestion, and the persons who had worked this out came to the Government, and asked for assistance to get possession of land upon which to settle. A number of the members of this association were in possession of sufficient money to pay the deposit required by the Government. He believed that about 200 families would be enabled to do this, and to go to the block selected under the conditions of the Government. But they were not prepared to put their finger on the exact block, or to give a detailed statement of what they intended to do. They thought that they were entitled to ask the assistance of Mr Bolleston to do this. Mr Bolleston said that he would not for one moment desire to give expressions of sympathy without some idea of practical help. Now he had before him as a beacon the Jackson's Bay settlement, where a large amount of money had been paid to bring people in, and now a large amount had to be spent to take them back again. The opinion of the Legislature was very Btrong that the Government should not form a settlement of persons who would not be independent of the Government assistance in the shape of publio works. What was necessary was that the Government should be assured that the company was able to carry out the conditions which should be imposed. Let them take a case. Suppose the Government gave the company the Te Aroha block, they would get a monopoly over this land, and the residents in other parts would say at once that the Government had no right to grant a monopoly when the land of the colony was open for selection on deferred payment. Now with regard to the Katikati settlement, he found the Government partly pledged to grant this, but he had fenced it round with such conditions as would not be at all so favourable to the working men as the deferred payments system. For instance, he had reserved 3000 acres of the best land for being taken up by individuals who might apply when it was surveyed. He had also reserved village settlements, timber reserves, &0., so that it seemed to him that it would be better for the persons represented by the deputation to take up land on deferred payments. Mr Stevens desired to point out that these persons only required to take up the land under such regulations as the Government, might wish to impose. They were also prepared to give guarantee by occupation that the conditions of the clause would be complied with. Would there under these circumstances, be any objection to the Government selecting a piece of land for them as they could not for various reasons select for themselves. What they proposed shortly was that they would occupy any piece of land selected by the Government, and give a guarantee that the conditions would be carried out by personal occupation of the land.

Mr Kent said that the association would receive no application for shares unless the applicant was prepared to take up fifty acres. Mr Rolleston said the point was whether the Government would take the responsibility of selecting a block of land for a number of working men. Now it seemed to him a condition precedent that the persons so desiring to take up land should decide by personal inspection or otherwise, whether the selection would suit thorn or not. Otherwise if the Government did this, they would incur responsibility such as that in connection with the Jackson's Bay settlement. He had been hard at work in his department, and had prepared regulations whereby land could be taken up under deferred payments. If, for instance, in Otago, where ho had instituted the system, he were to grant a monopoly, the hard-

workis* settlers who had boon looking for years for land would at once cry out. To come to the point, as the deputation appeared to represent a section of the people desirous of setting on the land, and he was desirous of assisting them, he would on the part of the ■Government supply ev«ry f aoility to the deputation whioh might be sent up to inspect and report on a block. He mußt point out that what was necessary to be done was that tho people represented by the deputation should lay before the Government a definite statement of what they wanted, and where they desired to settle.

Mr Andrews desired to point out that under the special settlement system all that was required under the Act was bona fide settlers on the one hand and the cash on the other. There was no concession on the part of the Government to the people, because the land could only be Bold once. Mr Eolleston said that was all very well, but the conditions precedent had to he carried out. He thought that the people repiesented by the deputation made a mistake in going in on the special settlement system. They would be far better under tho deferred payment or village settlement. As regarded Mr Stewart's settlement, he (Mr Eolleston) hod stipulated that the whole amount must be paid within two years, or the land forfeited. Mr Andrews said that, providing the company applied under the deferred payment system for the blocks of land, would the Government be prepared to declare that land open for sale under deferred payments. The company wanted to occupy land on the most favorable terms, and if deferred payments were the beßt for them, they would not be slow to adopt them. Mr Bolleston said there were a number of blocks surveyed and open for selection under deferred payments in the south, and there would shortly be a large number in the North Island. As regarded publio works it would depend upon the selection made by the company. They might take up a piece of land where the ocean highway would come to the doors of the settlers. What public works would be required there ? For instance, in the Te Aroha block, a large portion of it fronted on the Thames, and was not taken up principally, he believed, because it would require a large amount of floating capital to carry it on, as they must be independent from their position of public works. As regarded the question of the Native difficulty the Government would have nothing whatever to do with settling people on blocks in disturbed districts, nor would the Government for one moment think of defending the country with men, women,:and children. The Government were responsible for the peaoe of the country, and should not for one moment look for the defence of the country to these special settlements. As regarded the question of education ample provision was made for the formation of committees under the Act. Mr Andrews desired to urge upon Mr Bolleston the necessity of immediate action in facilitating the inspection of the land. Mr Stevens asked Mr Bolleston what facilities he was prepared to offer the persons who might be selected to inspect the land. Mr Bolleston said he would be willing to grant free passages by steamers and free passes on railway where practicable. Mr Stevens asked whether it would be possible for the representatives sent to the North to take up a block under deferred payments so as to be together. Mr Bolleston said the settlement of land would be a great boon, but the dealing of the •Government with a company such as this was surrounded by difficulties under the special settlement question. With regard to Mr Stevens' question, he might say that was one of a legal nature which he was unable to answer. He thought the deputation should think over what had been said, and see whether they had not better send a small number forth to inspect land. But he must be frank with them, that he thought it was more than probable that considerable difficulties would arise with regard to the special settlement question between the company and the Government. He should suggest that the oompany should make applications under the deferred payment system.