GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXI, Issue 1780, 4 November 1879, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OE EEPBESENTATIYES. The following extracts are from the “ New Zealand Times’ ” report of the proceedings on Friday : In answer to a question by Mr Pyke,—lf the Government will state to the House the amount of loss to the revenue resulting from the reduction of the tea and sugar duties during the period of nine months, extending from the Ist of January to the 30th September, 1879 ? —tho Hon. John Hall said the loss on tea had been £24,116 and on sugar £60,000. Mr Biehardson asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether the Government intend to make any alteration in tho roilway tariff this season ; and if so, when such alteration will come into operation? The Hon. John Hall was understood to say that the matter would would be taken into consideration. The Hon. Mr Biehardson asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether the Government have received any report from tho Colonial Marine Engineer or the Commissioner of Hallways for the Middle Island, on the subject of the damage to the railway works immediately to the north of Timaru ; and, if so, whether he will state out of what funds it is proposed to pay for tho necessary protective works, to ensure the present and future safety of the

railway ? The Hon. Mr Oliver replied thbt certain damage had been done to the railway in question, and that the protective works would be paid for out of the railway account. Mr Gisborne asked the Minister for EducaWhether the Government will introduce this session a Bill, as requested by the Senate of the University of New Zealand, with the object of securing, for the purpose of higher education in the Provincial District of Wellington, the 4000 acres required by “ The University Reserves Act, 1875,” to be set apart for that purpose j (2) whether they will introduce this session a Bill, as requested by the Senate of the University of New Zealand, to vest in trustees the lands reserved for promoting higher education in the provincial districts in which they are situated, and to enable such lands to be administered for the purposes for which they were reserved ; (3) whether the Government recognise that an equivalent endowment should be given for the purpose of higher education in the Provincial District of Auckland, in the place of the reserve of 20,000 acres set apart in the parish of Tahawai, in the district of Tauranga, by the Resident Minister at Auckland, about June, 1869, and afterwards appropriated by the Government for another purpose ? The Hon. Mr Rolleston said he had already stated the Government did not intend to bring such a Bill in this session. With regard to the 4000 acres steps were being taken which would secure it pending representation. With regard ,to the third question, provision had already been made for it; and with regard to the last, practically a larger area of land had been set apart. The Hon. John Hall proposed the second reading of the Qualification of Electors Bill, and explained its provisions to the House as ho had done in introducing the Bill to the House, Sir George Grey said it was impossible to read the Bill without very great disappointment. The Government had promised far more Liberal ideas than were found in the Bill. The Bill, too, was singularly deficient in clearness of language The Bill was really one which increased the power of property in the country. There was no inquiry as to age with regard to the Bill. The Constitution Act gave the Natives the same right as the white man, but this Bill took away that right, and gave them nothing in its place. They must then before they passed the Bill carry the other one, giving the right of voting to Natives. In committee he should endeavor to have manhood suffrage embodied. The Bill was a delusion and a snare, and was not what the House had a right to expect. Mr Brandon said he should support the Bill. Colonel Trimble defended the Bill, and said they must either abolish Maori voting, or confine it to Maoris, and the sooner they had special legislation on the subject the better. Mr Wakefield was very much disappointed at the objections of the hon. member for the Thames, which were of an exceedingly paltry character. It was not astonishing for that gentleman to come down now and tell them that he would turn this Bill into one of manhood suffrage only. But let them remember what was the conduct of Sir George Grey on that subject in 1878. But then he was on the benches, and now was in Opposition. The Bill of the Premier was infinitely more liberal than that brought down by Sir George Grey, and what he bad said to the House was nothing less than humbug. He despised a gentleman for coming to that House and trying to snatch from the Government the credit which they would get if it passed. He had never heard more quibbling, absurd questions than those brought forward by the late Premier. They now had a Ministry in efflee who were earnest in their desire to settle the people on the land, and did not go about it in the sham manner pursued by Sir George Grey. He need not at all fear about that, for they intended to have true Liberalism throughout the country, and not a sham. Mr Moss thought the remarks of the hon. member for the Thames were perfectly justified. There was a want of principle running throughout the Bill. Mr Stewart attacked Mr Wakefield, and was called to order by the Speaker. He proceeded to criticise the Bill in the same spirit as Sir George Grey. Mr Montgomery was not going to do away with his principles, and he should support the Bill because he believed it was a good one. He quite agreed that where the Queen’s writ ran in New Zealand the Natives should have a vote, other things being equal, but as a matter of fact they had not the same responsibility as the white man. {le should object to the Maoris having too strong a representation in that House, as he should most certainly object to any dual voting for representation in Parliament, Mr Hislop would support the second reading of the Bill if certain alterations were made in committee. Captain Russell would support the Bill, and entirely believed in a property qualification, although he believed in a manhood qualification. As there was no provision made for the representation of a University, he should like to see provision made for the teaching and medical professions. He should object to a special and strong representation of Maoris, as they knew the Maoris already in the Houses sat together in the corner and were a good deal influenced by their interpreter and the Native Minister. If the Native people had the same power they should have the same responsibility. Mr Gisborne thought, with regard to the Natives, the best course to follow was the middle course, for the Natives were not qualified to exercise their votes in the same way that the white men were. The Government proposals widened the breach between the two races, and he hoped the Bill would be very much improved in committee. Mr Reader Wood thought it .would have been better to introduce resolutions affecting the whole series of these Bills in something after the same way as he had done in 1874. [[Resolutions read.] What were the answers made to him ? Why, that he was a Chartist, and that these were the five points of the charter. Ho was now pleased to see both sides of that House unanimous on the principles of those resolutions. It was only a question of .detail that had to be settled. They were the representatives of the people, and not of property in any form. He did not therefore see the slightest objection to the first sub-section in the Bill, He did not know a single case where the value of a property had been disputed —all claims to vote on a bit of property were invariably allowed. They should accept the principle that a man had a right to vote simply because he was a man who had to pay taxes, and was amenable to the laws of the colony. Then with regard to the residential clause. Why, hardly a man in that House would hold his seat if compelled to reside in one particular district for six He would have the residence not in a particular district, but in the colony, so that he might have his name put upon the roll of any district he chose. The Native question was one of great importance. As the Bill stood the Natives would have the power of swamping the House, or else be deprived of their right to vote. There was no doubt that this matter was one which required a great deal of consideration. The language of the residential clause was not sufficiently clear and would require an interpretation clause. Mr Tawhai said the electoral roll was a privilege which had been accorded to them by the Queen through the treaty of Waitangi in 1840. In that treaty it was said that both races were to be under one rule, and the Maoris were looked upon as loyal subjects. He now, however, considered it was the wish of the Government to biing about a division between the two races. [No.] His desire was that they should not lose their vote, but should continue to be regarded as loyal subjects and true. They ought not, therefore, to be deprived of their rights. White people who had only been in the country a year were to have a vote, while the owners of the country, who had been in it all their life, were not to be allowed to vote. Maoris paid rates. He knew several who paid rates to County Councils. It seemed to him they wanted the Maoris to be homeless and landless, and to have no rights. [No.] He would inform the House that several Europeans had been returned to the House through the Maori votes recorded for them. He would ask them in what way they had injured them with this vote, that the House should wish to take it away from them. If this vote was done away with they might as well a v olish all the laws that had been made for them. If they committed this wrong upon them some great troubles would arise in the North Island, and the roads in that part of the country would be stopped. Mr Tomoana said he should like to see the Maori Bill dealt with before this one. Mr Bootham referred to what had been done by the Maori members themselves in the session of 1878. If the whole question were put before the whole of the Natives of New Zealand, he believed they would prefer an increased representation in that House in preference to the Maori dual vote. He had told his Maori constituents clearly that he intended to vote against the Maori dual vote. [The hon, speaker quoted here from what had taken place in regard to the Bay of Islands roll stuffing.] Mr Luadon had said he would

come down to that House to perpetrate any swindle. That was the kind of person they would expect to have brought down to that House if this Maori dual vote were allowed. He would oppose it in every way. Mr Turnbull said the Bill was calculated to create a large number of small voters, and so to swamp the elections. He thought that one year’s residence in the colony and six months in a district were sufficient to give a man a right to vote. With regard to the Maori vole, the House would take good care that justice was done to them, and he considered they were fully entitled to their vote. He did not agree with Captain Russell that the University should be represented. He would support the second reading of the Bill. Mr Tole also supported the second reading of the Bill. Ho deprecated, however, the principle of bringing down legislation in this way. It would have been much better to have brought down a Bill containing all these principles together. He agreed with the hon. member for the Thames that the Bill was brought up in a very artistic manner. Logically, he thought the dual vote should not exist, but from a point of expediency it was, no doubt, desirable. It would, he considered, be a very disastrous thing to exclude the clause which gave the Natives a right to vote for the return of members to that House. To do so they would be placing a disability upon them against the Constitution, Ho hoped the House would be very cautious before they excluded the Maori from the franchise. Mr Saunders regretted that the whole four questions in reference to elections and representation had not been brought down as one. The best Bill of the kind was the one, he thought, brought down in 1868. Looking at the Bill alone, it did not appear to be a Liberal measure, but taking it in connection with other Bills which the Government brought down, it assumed a very different aspect. Mr Stewart had said the attacks of Mr Wakefield were becoming monotonous. He could only say that if he (Mr Stewart) introduced a little variety into his own speeches, it would be an improvement. At the same time he agreed with a good deal that had fallen from the hon. member for the Thames, and thought the Bill might have been couched in a little simpler language. He concluded by saying he would support the second reading of the Bill, reserving himself the right to move amendments in committee. Mr Andrews complained of the way in which the Bill was drawn up, but said he would support the second reading. Mr Speight said it behoved them to consider seriously whether the Bill should be allowed to pass even the second reading in its present condition. He objected wholly to property being represented in that House—the Upper Chamber was the proper place for that. He spoke against the Bill as taking away the franchise from the Maori. He referred to the present intelligent Maori members in the House, and said there were many such men in the country who were just as well qualified to sit as any of those hon. gentlemen he saw around him. Mr Dick said there appeared to be a pretty unanimous feeling in the House on the broad principle of the Bill; details could be left to the committee. He himself did not agree with all the clauses of the Bill, but he should support the second reading, and do his best to make it workable in committee. Like other speakers, he did not believe in property representation in that House, but only on manhood suffrage. According to the present Bill any man could qualify himself to have a vote in any district if he had a £25 qualification. With regard to the native question ho felt very much the same as the member for City East on the question of the exclusion of the Natives, but he would insist that no Native should be a member of that House, till ho could speak English, understand it, and take a part in the debates in the same language. Mr Pitt would support the second reading of the Bill, and in doing so, said he had been greatly disappointed that the franchise had not been given to females. PLaughter.] They might laugh, but he would give them the opportunity in committee of showing whether they were the great Liberals which they pretended to be. Spinsters and widows had to pay taxes, and he failed to see why they should not have a voice in the management of the affairs of the country. The hon. gentleman proceeded to speak to the Bill at length, and said he should support its second reading. Mr Tainui would like to see the whole four Bills brought forward at once. Speaking generally, the hon. member expressed similar views to those expressed by Tawhai in the afternoon, Mr Hutchison said there could be no doubt that the Bill did mean that a man might have as many votes as he possessed twenty-five pound holdings in different districts. Property was not the particular thing which they had to represent in that House, nor indeed in the other. Property would always assert itself, and would always be sufficiently to assert itself without any special representation. He could understand how special Maori representation should require such a clause as this in the Bill. He thought as a matter of right they should give the Maori a vote just in the same way as they had it themselves. But he could understand that the Maori could swamp a particular district in some instances, but he thought it was better “we should bear the ills we hv. • 'ban fly to those that we know not of.” He should support the second reading of the Bill. Mr Murray, in a lengthened speech, advocated the female franchise, and said he would support the second reading of the Bill. Mr Lundon and Mr Seddon addressed the House, after which the Hon. the Premier replied. In the course of his address he considered that it was only right that those who had made sacrifices should have an increased voice in the affairs of the country, although he did not believe that the £2o franohise would much increase the voting power of the 'country. He regretted the small amount'of interest which people took mpelitiosin this country. Ho was glad that the objections which had been made had not been made in a party spirit, and when the Bill went into committee he had no doubt that they would arrive at a satisfactory conclusion, and carry a measure which would meet the wishes of the country for many years to come. In conclusion he moved the second reading or the Bill. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be committed on Tuesday. The Hon. John Hall moved the second reading of the Registration of Electors Bill, and explained the matters of detail contained in it.* To his mind in many respects this Bill was of more consequence than that which they had just considered. The result of the present Bill in connection with the apathy of the people had led to a very large number of persons not being placed upon the ro s who ought to be there. After a slight discus, sion, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday. second reading of the Maori Representation Bill was made an order of the day for Tuesday. The Hon. John Hall moved the second reading of the Regulation of Elections 8.11, and explained its object. Mr Saunders could not allow tne Bill to be read a second time without entering his protest against the doing away with the old-fashioned system of public nomination. He objected altogether to private proposals, Mr George hoped they would be able to do away with the numbers on the voting papers. Messrs Turnbull, Seddon, Gibbs, Pyke, and Andrews also addressed the House, after which the Bill was a Bec , time. The Hon. J. Hall moved the second reading of the Corrupt Practices rrevenfaon Bill, and explained its provisions. Th was read a second time wiihout disoutsio . The Hon, John Hall moved the second reading of the Elections Petitions Bill, a °a explained its object, which was to take on the hands of the Parliament the power to y petitions of this character, and to 8 1 J_ power to the Chief Justice. i gomery and Hislop spoke. Mr Pyke the adjournment of the debate. After discussion the motion was put and tos ■, the Bill was read a second time. T“ e B ’ toral Acts Repeal Bill was read a seoo T>a ~ without discussion. The Hon. M r . . , moved the second reading of the Tr 1611 Parliaments Bill. After some disoussi?? Bill was read a second time. The Hous adjourned at 12 25 until Tuesday.