GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXI, Issue 1765, 16 October 1879, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. EVENING- SITTING. Tuesday, Ocioeee 14. FINANCES OF THE COLONY. After Major Atkinson’s Statement, Sir G. Geey rose for the purpose of denying that the finances of the colony had been neglected for the last fifteen months, and asserted that the statement of Government accounts had been published every quarter. He defended the late Government, and said that the hands of himself and colleagues were tied by the manner in which the last Parliament was dissolved. They were unable to bring forward and pass those liberal measures which they intended to introduce. He informed the House that if the lata Government had been allowed to remain in office they would have brought forward similar measures to those which the present Government were now introducing. He had no hesitation in saying that he and those who thought with him would support the Government in carrying out any liberal measures. Mr Walteb Johnston expressed the opinion that it would be better to issue Treasury bills than pass an Act which would enable the Government to issue deficiency bills. Mr Hall supported the statements which had been made by the Colonial Treasurer. He could not conceive how members on the other side of the House could fail to thoroughly comprehend the present unsatisfactory position of affairs. Mr Ballancb rose for the purpose of making matters clear. He defended the late Government for their action in the matter of purchasing Native lands. He contended, also, that the colony had lost three months’ revenue in consequence of the late Government being put out of office. He explained that the late Government had intended to raise the duties [on several articles, and thus add to the revenue. He denied that the present Treasurer’s estimate of liabilities was correct, and quoted figures in support of his statement. He assorted, also, that the late Government had exercised economy in various departments of the Civil Service. In referring to Native matters, he submitted that all the money which had been spent on Rewi was well spent, and would be productive of great benefit to the people of the colony. Mr McLean considered that the late Colonial Treasurer handled the finance of the colony in a very scientific manner, and consequently everybody was in a state of “ fog ” about it. Ho added that the late Government caused a waste of about a million of money in connection with Native matters. He blamed the Government for abusing their powers by giving “ splendid billets " to men like Messrs Luekie and G. M. Reed, who had no experience, while old officers were entirely overlooked. Mr Moss defended the Government. Mr Readeb Wood said the deficiency of £600,000 was cheap if it enforced a reform in the finances. The position was one that all could condemn, but few remedy. He must support the late Government, not because he approved of all they hud done, but because they were the lesser evil of the two. Mr Wakefield said the statements the members for the Thames and Waitemate were mere excuses and contradictory. They had no right to use land revenue for ordinary purposes. It was robbing the creditors to do so. Had times been ever so prosperous they could not have realised the revenue they estimated. The legislation of the colony was not calculated to promote the sale of waste lands, but the reverse. Mr Ballance’s conduct in leaving the Cabinet at a critical time had never been explained to the House. He always thought Sir J. Vogel’s speculative policy would bring the colony to grief. It was a miserable, melancholy scene

to see a gentleman at the head of affairs who was incapable of two ideas on finance. He was thankful for the Treasurer bringing down such a lucid statement. If anything would convince him that the present Government should be left in office, it was the position of the finances of the colony. Mr Pykb condemned the Government for the waste of time going on. He objected to this talking against time to enable the Government to ransack the pigeon holes. Mr Tuenbull spoke briefly. Mr Montsokeby considered the Treasurer’s statement unnecessarily gloomy, and calculated to damage the new loan. Major Atkinson, replying to the speeches, pointed out that for public works alone over £500,000 would be required during the next three months. PUBLIC BEYENUES ACT. The Public Revenues Act Amendment Bill was then passed through all stages. ADJOUBNMBNT. Mr Hall moved the adjournment. Mr Sheehan said this was breaking faith. The understanding was to go on with the the Electoral Bill. Mr Hall said it was unreasonable to expect it at that hour. Mr Hislop wanted to know when the no confidence motion was to come on, and condemned the course adopted by the Premier as breaking faith. Mr Macandbew said it was clear they had been outflanked, but they would know better another time. The House adjourned at 1.30. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, Octobeb 15. After formal business the Public Revenues Bill was received from the Lower House, and was passed through all stages. On the motion for the second reading. Colonel Whitiiobb said all the charges made in Parliament as to the extravagance of the late Government were disproved by Major Atkinson’s statement. He had expected Mr Whitaker to have made reference to it. He agreed that there must be either a reduction of expenditure, or an increase of taxation, but was convinced after his experience that it was impossible to reduce the departmental expenditure. Many civil servants were now underpaid. Sir F. D. Bell condemned the Financial Statement, which was put in a way to convey the idea that there was a deficit of £911,000. Probably a telegram to England to that effect would do vast harm to the credit of the colony. Mr WatbbhouSk said the Government had depended too much on land revenue, which hod probably received a shock it would never recover. After the Bill had passed, Mr Whitakee said he would move the postponement of all business till Tuesday, when the no-confidence motion in the Lower House would probably be settled. It would be necessary, however, to meet at 7.30 next day, to pass an Imprest Supply Bill. Among the notices of motion is one by Dr. Menzies, to ask if the Government intend .to alter the constitution of the Council. The Council adjourned at 4 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. next day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, Octobeb 15. The House met at 2.30. EEPOBTS, NOTICES, &C. Several reports were brought up and petitions presented. Mi- Hamlin gave notice of a Bill to repeal the Toll Bar Act, 1866, Auckland district. Mr Bowen gave notice to ask the Government to make provision for weighing grain and other produce received at railway stations for transit. Mr Maoandbew gave notice to ask for a return of all contracts running, amount of same, and dates of completion of such works. Colonel Tbimble gave notice to ask when the New Plymouth volunteers will be armed with breech-loading rifles; also, whether Joshua Jones has leased a large tract of land on the banks of the Mokau River. Mr Seddon will ask for a telegraph and money order office to be established at Stafford town. Mr McLean is to ask for maps showing the line of railway from Waikato to the Thames, allowing also the line in course of formation and cost of same. Mr Wakefield gave notice to ask if the land tax is to bo collected at Chatham Islands, Mr Bunny brought up a report of the committee on the petition of Hickey, in which no recommendation was made. Dr, Pollen and Sir F. D. Bell were granted leave to give evidence before the Native Petitions Committee if they thought proper. explanation. Tomoana rose to make an explanation on two matters, which he called mistakes of the late Native Minister. He did not say that Mr Hall had promised to put a stop to the sale of Native lands, but to the Lands Court. Mr Sheehan said ho should refer to the matter next sitting day. MISCELLANEOUS. The Ministee eoe Public Woeks, in reply to Mr Bain, said he could not say if a sum would be put on the estimates for fencing the railway line from the Bluff to Winton. The question would engage the attention of Ministers, but it was an important one to answer. Mr Olivbe, in reply to Mr Bain, said correspondence in reference to the recent appointment of trustees of the Invercargill municipal sinking fund would be laid on the table for the information of the hon. memher. Major Atkinson, in reply to Mr Fulton, said the subsidies due to local bodies in Taieri county would be paid when the amounts were defined and the estimates passed. The Ministee eob Public Woeks, in reply to Mr Stevens, said no instructions had been given for the removal from Christchurch to Dunedin of the Department of the Commissioner of the Middle Island railways. Mr Oliteb, in reply to Mr Stevens, said the Government will erect a post and telegraph station in Sydenham. The Ministee eob Public Wobks, in reply to Mr Moss as to what steps had been taken, or were proposed to bo taken, to open up the communication between Cambridge and and Lake Rotorua, by way of Te Papapa, said the question would be considered before the estimates were brought down. Major Atkinson, in reply to Mr Murray as to whether the Government were willing to pay local bodies in Otago the £54,000 of land fund impounded by the late Government, and belonging to the provincial district of Otago, said it would depend on raising the loan, the same as the Canterbury £IOO,OOO. Mr Hall, in reply to Mr Murray, said the Government had a telegram regarding the negotiation of the five million loan, from Sir J. Vogel, to the effect that the loan was not yet placed, but they did not consider it was desirable to lay the .information before the House. Mr Olives, in reply to Mr Murray, said it was not true, as stated in the Press, that £SOOO had been lent to Tuapeka Municipal body, as the security was not satisfactory, and the loan asked for, which was by the Municipal body, not Tuapeka, was not granted by the Government. Mr Hall, in reply to Mr Murray, said Volunteers wore under arms and in active service in the Thames district, but there was no record as to the terms on which they were employed. In reply to Mr Bowen, The Ministbb fob Lands said an inquiry would be held as to the drainage of the Mandeville and Rangiora district, but he could not say whether by Royal Commission or otherwise. Mr Rolleston, in reply to Mr Finn, said they had not released late licensees of Wakatipu Goldfields run from payment of rents due prior to the cancellation of licenses. Mr Olivbe, in reply to Mr Levin as to a Select Committee to bo appointed to inquire into the best means of promoting and encouraging manufactures and local industries in the colony, said steps would bo taken, and recommended the appointment of a committee for the purpose. Leave was given to introduce the Wanganui Endowed School Bill, and the Lyttelton Harbor Board and Corporation of Lyttleton Exchange Bill. Mr Sheehan, on the question of leave to introduce the Electoral Bill, said it was not proper that a measure of this nature should be brought in by a Government not possessing the confidence of the House. It was necessary that the Government, before proceeding with business, shonld possess the confidence of the House. The measure before them was one of the Liberal party’s, and would not'otherwise have been brought into the House.

Mr Hail read a letter from Mr Maonndrew, asking it the no-confidence question would bo brought on that day. His reply was that the policy of the Government must first be brought up, but assenting to do so when sufficient time had been given for the policy to be placed before the House. He had received no reply to this, and [now asked the House to receive the policy and allow the no-oonfidence question to come before them on Tuesday next. That proposal had been made, but was not referred to. Mr Macandbew asked that the motion might be taken on Friday. Mr Hall said they would do so if possible, but did not think it was possible to get on the statement by Friday which the Hon. Native Minister would produce. fOries of 11 Divide.”!

Mr McLean said if time was given to produce these statements, some of the Opposition might find themselves in a very different position. Mr Hislop rose to a point of order, and the Speakeh said nothing bearing on the noconfidenco motion could te introduced.

Mr McLean said he was speaking as to the position of those members of the House who occupied an idependent position, and had only to say he would take an early opportunity of referring to the conduct of the Opposition. Mr Moss asked if the Native Minister’s statement could not be taken in debate on the no confidence motion. It would save time and have quite as much effect. The same would have been the case if the Premier’s statement had been similarly made. Mr Seddon said ho wished to speak to Mr McLean with reference to independent members and waste of time by the Opposition. He was not going to give party votes to the injury of the business of the country, and loss of time of the House. He considered the waste of time so far simply scandalous, and was in favor of stopping all business until this question was disposed of. Mr Pitp said it seemed to him the only question was as to who should have the credit of introducing these measures, and he hoped some arrangement would be mode, so that the passing of these measures need not be interfered with. Mr Muebay said ho regretted that anything like a factious opposition should be introduced. Mr Kelly suggested the adjournment of the House until 7.30 to give the Government and Opposition an opportunity of arranging when the debate should bo taken. Mr Wakefield said the House could not have considered what effect putting the previous question would have. It meant an obstruction of all business until the no-confi-dence question came on, and that meant wasting the whole week. Any Government would have to bring in these Bills when in office, and he failed to understand this, waste of time when the Bills could be proceeded with and time gained. The motion of the hon. member for the Thames simply meant putting a stop to all business. He assumed that they did not wish to prevent the Native Minister from making his statement, and did not expect that much debate would take place on the motion when it came before them; but, he did expect that when it was disposed of, things would not go on as smoothly as they seemed to anticipate. He should not bo surprised to see one of the most extraordinary proceedings ever witnessed follow the settlement of the question. Ho hoped the question would be allowed to come on next Tuesday, and that the business before the House should be proceeded with.

Mr Speight thought business was impracticable so long as this motion of no confidence was before the House, and if the Native Minister wished to make a statement he had the opportunity of doing so when the debate was on. He trusted there was no threat in what the hon. member for Geraldine had said about [a future extraordinary procedure of the House. He trusted the motion would be passed at once. Mr Wood said the Government had taken the opportunity to introduce their policy, so far as the Bills hetore the House embodied their policy. He approved of the Electoral Bill before them, and thought they could not wish for anything more than the opportunity they had of laying their Bill before the House. The Financial Statement could just as effectively have been made in the no-oonfl-dence debate as it was last evening. Colonel Tbimble said he would not attempt to advise his opponents, but would ask the Government to take steps to place their measures in an official form before the House, in order that they might not be swept away. Mr Sutton charged the Opposition with sham liberality when they refused to pass the measures before the House because they had not introduced them. It was simply to regain their seats, not to pass liberal measures, that they were most anxious. Mr Russell said it would be injudicious to postpone these liberal measures. Mr Whitakee approved of some concession being made on the other side, in order to enable them to get on with business. He moved that the House adjourn till 7.30, to enable some arrangement to be made. Mr Hall said they contended that they had a right to a fair trial, and the question was whether they should be deprived of the opportunity of placing their measures on the records of the House. A sense of fairness demanded this. So long as they were on the Government benches they did not intend to submit to those who wished to put them off the benches before they had an opportunity of recording these Bills, and he felt sure the House would not condemn a Government unheard. He should be prepared to show that every constitutional rule was in their favor. He considered they would be faithless to the trust reposed in them if they consented to go from the benches at the will of the Opposition without first introducing their measures. The question was whether they should take the debate on Friday or Tuesday, thus confining it to a single sitting day ; but by submitting they would give effect to a wrong constitutional principle. Hon. members opposite were obstinate in this matter, but his side would be as firm as they were obstinate. They were merely going through an indecent scramble for office. They contended that they had made one or two conversions. He called them perversions. He hoped that if they adjourned now some arrangement would be made in the meantime. Mr Macandbbw said he was not actuated by any scramble for office, but only wished to further Parliamentary Government. If the hon. gentlemen wished to place their measures on record, they would have had an opportunity of doing so if they had consented to take the no-confidenoe question on Friday, without all this lamenting. They had baen frequently asked what was the question, and he could only reply it was, “To be or not to be." Mr Bowen said the Opposition were afraid and wanted to coerce the Government before the opinion of their constituents was brought to bear upon them. He said those gentlemen who thus delayed business were not consulting the interests of the colony. They would insist that time was given to the Government to lay their statements before them. They wished to act fairly and honorably, and if their offer was not accepted, then the responsibility would rest on the shoulders of the Opposition. Mr Moss said a great deal had been said of the onerous duties of the Native Minister requiring time and consideration, but the fact was the gentlemen who pleaded thus were the first to cry out for abolishing this department. The debate was interrupted by the adjournment at 5.30.

EVENING SITTING. ORDERS OF THE DAT. The House proceeded to the orders of the day, when the Auckland Harbour Foreshore Sale Bill (Mr Hurst) was adjourned ,for a week. The Onehunga Kesorve Bill (Mr Hamlin) was read a second time and ordered to be committed to-morrow week. ADJOURNMENT. Mr Maoandrew then moved the adjournment of the House. He said ho regretted to do so, but saw no other course open, from the conduct of the Government in refusing to assent to an arrangement ho had proposed, and in keeping back the motion of want of confidence. Mr Halt said ho hoped the motion would not be persisted in, because it would involve a waste of time, which the hon. gentleman deprecated. The fact was that the hon. member had lost his and should not now complain. Sir Geo. Ghet said he did not consider the time lost, because the hon. gentlemen had pledged themselves to carry out the liberal measures which they would not otherwise have thought of supporting. In office or out of office, they were pledged to those liberal measures, and he would drag them with him on his chariot wheels. They should no longer go into another lobby, because he would keep them to their promise. They had gained fifty years in the liberal measures thus assented to,

and he could throw his hat up in rejoicing over the conquest. But it was now the duty of the House to remove those friends of his from the Ministerial Benches. He had been pointed at as the obstacle to carrying out these liberal measures, and had consequently retired into the obscurity from which he came in order that he might not retard the passing of those measures. Bet the Government follow his example and allow a Ministry entitled to pass those measures to occupy their places. In reference to the manner in which the Government was formed, he said the hon. gentleman at the head it ought not to have been allowed to resign his seat in the Upper House without first stating his reason, and under the circumstances he sat on those benches as a representative of his Excellency. (Oh!) That was the position. He then referred to forcing [this Ministry upon the House by the making' also in another branch, the tipper House, of an appointment which he should have been glad to see under any other circumstances. He objected, on behalf of the House, to have a Ministry thus forced upon them, and recommended that an address be sent to the Governor asking for thsir removal. The gentleman at its head was the representative of what he would call the landed aristocracy of the Middle Island, and the gentleman in the Upper House occupied the same position in the North Island as the Premier did in the South, for the latter was the representative of the great land ring in Canterbury. It was not the fault of the people in the colony that they did not enjoy their rights over the land, but the fault of those who had been placed over them, who did not choose to attend to their wants in this respect. He contended that they should create their own precedent in this young colony, and the precedent they would create was that no business should go on until this question of no-confidenco had been decided. They had lost nothing, but gained very much since this question was raised. They were securing fresh privileges for the people by every day’s delay, and should be thankful. Ho claimed credit for his efforts in framing the Constitution Act in 1853, and making provision therein whereby the people should have a voice in choosing the means of obtaining their Governor. He contended that Liberal representatives should vote in that House, and they should fight every obstacle to their progress. It was said that if Supply was granted, a dissolution would follow. But they must refuse to grant Supply. He would not trust them with money, but would insist on keeping their noses to the grindstone. Mr Rollhston said there was a time 'when he thought the hon. gentleman was sincere in his professions, and when his utterances had the true ring about them. But from the listless way in which his remarks were now uttered he was satisfied this was not the case. They were told they were going to be tied to the chariot wheels of the hon. gentleman, which simply meant that he was going to have a flying column of his own. If this party got into power they were asked to drag the Crown on the floor of the House, and trample under foot responsible Government. The hon. gentleman knew that it was improper to make such allusions to the Governor. They were told this Government had been formed to represent a landed aristocracy. Who were the members of the Government ? Was he a representative of that ring ho had referred to ? or was ho afraid to stand before him ? He (Sir G. Grey) would remember that he (Mr Rolleston) had met him in Lyttelton and had been told by him that he regarded him as a friend and not as an opponent of liberal views. Who signed the Whakatane grants, giving away 16,000 acres for threepence an acre ? Why, the Government of the hon. gentleman ! Referring to the resignation by Mr Hall of his seat in the Council and his taking the lead in that House, he said the hon. gentleman (Mr Hall) was not a representative of the Upper House, but of a most important constituency. He continued in refutation of some of the charges brought against Ministers by Sir George Grey, and contended they had no right to suffer the abuse heaped on them by that gentleman without just cause. Mr Reid said he had heard nothing hut a tirade of abuse of Sir G. Grey in all that he had listened to that evening. The constituency of the hon. member for Avon was a mere pocket borough in comparison with the constituency of Christchurch city, which the gentleman he so much abused represented. And yet he was told he could not appear before the electors. He then proceeded to show that the party to which Sir George Grey belonged represented 34,000 electors, but Ministers only represented 22,000. And yet they spoke of their representation of majorities, not minorities. The fact was they gained their popularity in small districts, but were nowhere in large districts, where numbers preponderated. The Grey Government had done more for the colony than the Atkinson Government had for eight years before. The mining industry had never been so well supported as by the Grey Government. He heartily supported the course adopted by the member for Port Chalmers,

Colonel TBiMßLE"followed, and dwelt at length upon Sir G. Grey’s speech. He did not think the action of the Governor should be criticised in the House in the way they had heard that evening. He contended that there was good reason to believe that tho liberal measures brought down by the late Government were only intended to hocus the House and people, and were being dangled before members like the proverbial carrot. But they intended to compel them to eat the carrot. He would recommend them to demand another day from the Opposition for every one wasted like this, instead of giving way, as they were asked to do. Mr Mastebb spoke in defence of his election promises, to which reference had been made by Mr Reid. He said he had received assurances of satisfaction with the course he pursued, although not to all his constituents, and quoted from his election address to show that he had kept faith. Mr Hubsthousb referred to the career of Sir George Grey as a contradiction of his great liberal professions, and condemned the allegiance of Mr Reid to the liberal cause simply because its professed leaders had given his constituents a water-race. He condemned such paltry motives for giving support, and was surprised that the hon. gentleman should openly make such a statement to account for his support. He condemned the hon. member for Port Chalmers, because he had once heard him say in his place in that House that £200,000 was of more importance to Otago than to the united colony. He had thought very little of his political honesty after that. He attributed the waste of time which was taking place to the gentlemen of the Opposition, but hoped they would yet see the error of their ways, and repent in sackcloth and ashes. The House adjourned, and on resuming nothing was done. An immediate adjournment followed at 10.50.