GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XX, Issue 1464, 25 October 1878, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

<> [SPECIAL WIRE FROM PRESS AGENCY.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, October 21. In the Council to-day the following Bills were read a third time and passed : Tiniaru Harbor Endowment and Christchurch Boys' High School. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, October 21. notice of question. Mr Fitzroy gave notice to ask the Premier if he has declared the independence of New Zealand or intends to do so, and if so at what date; also, by what authority he intends to supersede the National Anthem of Great Britain with that of Thomas Bracken, of Dunedin, and what will be the cost of supplying copies to the schools of the colony. PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE. The Premier laid on the table papers relative to the alteration of reserves in Taranaki and Canterbury ; correspondence from the AgentGeneral on immigration ; return of Crown lands reserved for railway and other purposes in 1877-8; report of Civil Service Examination Board ; report of geological survey of New Zealand. Mr Macandrew laid on the table correspondence relative to the establishment of a Railway Waggon Company; also, report showing the extent of damage resulting from recent floods in Clutha. THE CLUTHA FLOOD. Mr Macandrew said the estimate made of the total damage by the flood amounted to .£103,000. The Government proposed to ask authority to advance a sum of to various local bodie3 by way of loan to repair the damages. The money would be repayable in annual instalments extending over a period of five years. In making np the proportions, due regard would be paid to financial conditions. The report, which was merely a preliminary one, was ordered to be printed. FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS BILL. In reply to Mr Rolleston, The Colonial Treasurer said the Financial Arrangements Bill would be circulated this evening. MR BARTON'S CHARGES. Mr Gisborne asked when the Government would st ite the course they intended to pursue in regard to Mr Barton's charges against the Judges. The Premier replied that so late in the session the Government could not give a definite answer. THE SPECIAL WIRE BUSINESS. The Premier said he wished to make a Ministerial statement, and for that purpose would move the adjournment of the House. He said he desired to make a statement with regard to the question raised in relation to the Telegraph Department. The subject had been hastily brought on the other day, and many statements made which were incorrect, and which would produce erroneous impressions. The question nt issue was one of the greatest magnitude, and one which had agitated Parliaments in other colonies. It was whether free printing shall be allowed or not. This was the question which was agitated in the nineteenth century. Winn the present Government came into office, they found a monopoly in existence called the Press Agency, which was created in this way : No messages calied "collect " messages were allowed to be?ent from the Australian colonics to New Zealand, but one privileged party were allowed to " collect " messages, which secured the monopoly of the Press. He directed his attention to this, and found that the general concurrence of opinion in Europe was that nothing more detrimental to the interests of a country could be, even _ when two or three Press Agencies were in existence. In England this principle was recognised by a larger number of persons interested in preventing other persons coming into competition with them. He would give an instance. The London "Times," one of whose members stated that nothing could be more detrimental to the interests of any country than that such a system should be permitted to prevail. He stated that the inevitable result was that public opinion was stereotyped. He and his colleagues had consulttd, and had come to the conclusion that this must cease. In England they had many Press Agencies, and the public received the benefit from so many educated minds being engaged in collating and selecting news. In England nineteen journals used spec'al wires, and the Telegraph Department, in order to encourage the system, voluntarily submitted to a loss estimated at .£20,000 a year. Each paper paid £SOO annually. He was extremely glad wdien the first offer was made in this colony to use a special wire. The special wire system was resisted in England by the Head of the Telegraph Department in the same manner as the penny postal system. It was impossible to introduce such a system in our country without difficulties being thrown in the way. In regard to the postal system in England, it was found impossible to introduce penny postage without removing the head of the department, and substituting another. He must say that no willingness was displayed by the Telegraph Department in assisting the introduction of such a system into New Zealand. The first estimate of cost was .£4OOO, and then it was contended that great abuse would be committed by the reduction of .£2ouo. He contended that evening papers in New Zealand received telegrams cheaper than in England. He denied that the Government intended to create a monopoly, as the same facilities were grantedto all newspapers of the colony. Additional wire would be erected for the Jfress. He believed that in the arrangement he had made he had consulted the interests of the public of the colony by securing the best intelligence that could be given. It was a great advantage to have in New Zealand a kind of phantasmagoria of what takes place in Europe. Each day this would place before the people of this colony such a degree of education as no other country enjoys. For this he had to bear such persecution as had been witnessed in the House the other night. He would rather undergo all the that had been heaped on hioa than maintain what he believed to be a wrong monopoly in this country, and would enable one firm to be the sole purveyors of news. Mr McLean said he would not follow the Premie? into his story of the postal question in England, but would speak to the question. He was glad the Premier had acknowledged that he had taken this matter out of the hands of the Telegraph Commissioner, and that he was himself the author of what he (Mr McLean) would call an icjquifcy. He would show that the Premier had designed to establish a monopoly, and to gng the independent portion of the Press of the colony. By his own admission he had entered into a secret agreement to gag the independence of the Press of the colony. He would tell the Premier and his friends, who had been haunting £he Government offices for some time past, that £be Premier took the editor of the " Otago Daily Times" about the colony with him in order that he might manufacture telegrams from Waikato, and about the triumphal arch a Taranaki, which had been afterwards proved to be untrue. This was the gentleman who had befMi haunting the back stairs of Ministerial offices, and carrying on secret negotiations with the Government. Ho (McLean) was told of this and warned that something was wrong, and he went to the Telegraph Commissioner and got him to promise that no arrangement should he entered into officially, that all newspapers could share alike. And yet in the arrangement made with these papers, they stipulated that they should only be allowed to take in such other papers as they liked. The plan was to throttle the "Herald" in Dunediu, and the Press in Christchurch. After that secret arrangement, the three papers tent one of their numbers to Sydney in order to secure a monopoly of cable news, but he had not succeeded. Another of the parties had asked a certain person how much money woul i it take to ruin the Pre? s Agency? Could any one say that the Premier was not attempting a n farious transaction:-' He was astonished that the Premier could stand up in his place in the House and acknowledge himself as the author of such a scheme. „ , ~ ~ , , ~ Dr Hodgkinson called the Speaker s attention to the expression " nefarious," and desired to know whether the hon. gentleman was in The Speaker said it would he desirable that strong expressions should not be used. Mr M'Lean said he was merely using language which the Premier had taught him in frequent speeches in the House. 'I hat was a favorite expression of the Premier s. I he latter had stated that when he came into office, he found the Press Agency had a monopoly Why did he not give the honest history of that ? Why did ho not tell the House that the Telegraph Department had agreed that these collect

messages should be sent, and if there was any dispute a 3 to payment, then they would retain to the pyste.n of prepayment. He challenged tbe Premier to examine the records of the Telegraph Department and fi id one instance m which he (M'Lean) had entered into any transaction winch would not hear tbe light of day. He hid never done any such net' irioustramactirm as that of which the Premier had been guilty. The Premier knew perfectly well that if ail the newspapers applied for special wires, that department had not the means at its disposal to grant them ; that it would take more than two cables to do the work. lit; (Mr McLean) was satisfied from his knowledge of the Telegraph Department that the Pieinier could not carry out the engagements ho had catered into. But New Zealand would have none of this proposed monopoly. Tbe Premier had been detected l-ed-han'ded in this nefarious transaction. He had endeavoured to put him (Mr McLean) off, from day to day, and if he had succeeded he would have sent other papers, not included in tlie transaction, to the wall, and many of those papers had treated the present Government more fairly than they deserved. The people of New Zealand would rise as one m:i;i to prevent this attempt to throttle the Press. The Premier had found the I ress of the colony coming down on him, and was afraid it would ruin his reputation. In consequence of this the Premier came and said ho had been doing all this for the human race, and that it was a very ungrateful human race. What would the Premier do for the evening journals, which were injured by this special wire arrangement 'i The House knew the Premier entertained a deadly hatred against one of the partners of the Press Agency. The Premier's own friend in Dunediu sent telegrams which were a disgra?e to him, and now when the Premier attempted to give him a monopoly of the wires, a few blind followers of the Government, who wero growing less and less every d ly, suppor.cd them in this nefarious transaction, but very few people throughout the colony would approve of the action of the Premier. It would be wise now if the Premier were to withdraw from all the?e contracts, which he could not be in a position to fulfil. When the Premier found that his plan had been discovered, and that he was driven into a corner, and when he had delayed replying to the application of the Press Agency, asking him to come to the same terms as had been granted to the three Government organs, he replied to the second letter in less than two hours after it wa-i written. He (Mr McLean) found that very few members of the House approved of the Premier's conduct —not even tuose who were favorable to the Government. Mr Johnson said the Premier had asserted that his object was to destroy a monopoly, but the papers on the table would not bear out that statement. Those papers would shew that on the contrary the Premier had endeavored to create a monopoly, and to crush certain other papers. When the special wire was first applied for, the General Manager stated that, if it were granted, it would be giving a monopoly. Upon that they had the handwriting of Sir George Grey, directing that the application should be granted in direct opposition to the wishes of the General Manager. Was not that granting a monopoly ? Mi-Feldwick said that, as the proprietor of an evening journal, he was perfectly satisfied with the arrangement that had been entered into.

Major Atkinson said that the question of free printing was involved. It was not a question whether persons should print matter when they had obtained it, but whether they should obtain matter to print. The Premier had cleverly endeavoured to clear himself from the from the odium of this gross job which he had perpetrated Mr Macandrew —It has not been perpetrated.

Major Atkinson—No ! It has not. The House has stopped it most effectually. Major Atkinson went on to argue that the telegraph wires were open to the whole Press of the colony on equal terms. It was by law as free as air. But this immaculate Government, which professes to be far above jobs and favoritism, had granted a monopoly to their own organs, and had promised to grant equal advantages to others in the event of their being able to put on another wire. The Press Agency had never possessed any privileges which were not open to the general public. 1 hey had established an organisation throughout the colony, und were enabled to supply the newspapers with telegraphic news at a cheaper rate than if they each maintained their own separate agents. There was no monopoly in that. There was nothing to prevent a dozen Press Agencies being started, except that it would not pay. Therefore all this talk about its being a question of free printing was a misuse of words. 'J he Premier had simply aimed at destroying those journals in the colony that would not fall down and worship him. The Colonial Treasurer said the Pivss Agency had engaged the use of a special wire throughout the whole of the session. The Government held that they had a right to make these special concessions, provided equal concessions were open to all other applicants. The general manager had reported that this could be done, one wire being provided for the new agency, one for the Press A gency, and another for the general public. There was no monopoly, and the Press Agency had no claim to enjoy a monopoly. He contended that what the Government had done would be approved by the country. Mr Oliver hop? d that, in any arrangement, the interests of the largely circulated evening papers would be protected. Mr Eolleston quoted from a memo, by Dr. Lemon, to the effect that the department could not supply two special wires at the same time. It was verv unfair on the part of the Premier to speak in disparaging terms of Dr. lemon, who had merely taken up a fair position in regard to this matter. Such attacks on public officers would have a tendency to ruin the civil service. Mich a thing was a disgrace to the country. The proposed arrangement with the Waggon Company was one which had the appearance of unfairly interfering with free competition. The present Government had been expected to confer greater liberty upon the country. But its conduct had been such as to produce disappointment. The Pr<- mi c r had frequently referred to a blank page in New Zealand's history, which his own and other names would fill; but he (Mr Rolleston) considered that it would bo a very unenviable one.

Mr Joyce charged Dr. Lemon with resisting proper concessions to the Press. Mr Macandkew defended the proposed waggon agreement. Mr Moss defended the agreement made by the Government. Mr Fisheu said Dr Lemon had merely done his duty in placing the fa' ts before Ministers, who however had the right to acoept or reject his advice as they thought proper. Mr Gisboene thought equal telegraph facilities should be granted to the Press on conditions which should be published in the " Gazette." Mr Bowen said the Press Agency had written a letter asking for equal privileges to those that were granted to the three newspapers, and no answer was tent. But when the House expressed dissatisfaction with the proposed monopoly, and another letter was sent by the Press Agency, the request was granted within a few hours. Mr j (OWE read strong telegrams which he had received from the Thames journals, protesting against tho proposed monopoly. sir E. Douglas condemned the action of the Government. Mr Wakefield deprecated the references to Dr. Lemon in the discussion, who had simply placed the facts before the Government, leaving them to follow any course they thought right. Everyone who knew Dr. Lemon was aware that he held the most liberal views with regard to facilities to the Press There was not a p q)er in the colony which did not condemn the proposed monopoly. He denied th:.t the Press Agency was a monopoly in any sense, and contained that it was a mere business association. It was merely an arrangement founded on tin general consent of the new papers, which enabled them to obtain their telegrams cheaper than if they made independent arrangements. He was in the habit of reading the newspapers published from end to tnd of "the col ny, and had busn struck with the impartiality and admirable manner in wh eh the Parliamentary telegrams were compiled. 'J he competition between two rival agencies would only have the effect of depriving the public of a great deal of news, and subjecting the newspapers to greater expense than they had to bear at pros nt. Mr Fox said that whil) the Government were granting these improp r concessions to certain f.vored newsp pers, they refused to grant telegraphic communication to out districts unless they ag eed to give a guarantee. He condemned the references to Dr. Lemon as uniustiiiable towards a gentleman who had nhown to much zeal in tin public service, and had attracted the attention of scientific men in all parts of the world. '1 he Government should absolutely have refused to enter into negotiations to grant special conces ions to newspapers until they were in a position to extend the same privL leges to all alike. The debate was interrupted by the dinner hour adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. SPECfAL WlttE QUESTION. At the eveniug sitting- there wis uo furthcr debate on the Hperial wire question, the motion for adjournment being immediately put and negatived.

THE CITY OF AUCKLAND IMMIGRANTS. Mr otout read » telegram from Mr Huntley Eliott, Under-Secretary for Immigration, stating that all tho immigrants were on their way to Waikan, some on foot and some on drays, to embark on board the Hinemoa. Mr Jfcliott desired to express his indebtedness to the Maoris for the ready and active assi-tance they had accorded to the shipwrecked immigrants. council's AMENDMENTS. Amendments ma i« by the Legislative Council in the District Railways and Public Revenues Bills were agreed to. CEMETEKIEB MANAGEMENT. The Cemeteries Management Bill was read a third time and passed DISQUALIFICATION BILL. The House, after some debate, resolved to disagree with a number of amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Disqualification Act, and a conference was asked for. RAILWAYS CONSTRUCTION. The debate on the Railways Construction Bill was resumed. Major Atkinson characterised the Bill as an appropriation Bill of the worst character, as it not only proposed to permanently appropriate six and a half milli ns of money to beexclusively under the control of the Ministry, but authorised the Government forthwith to enter into contracts for any of the railways named in the schedule, on what had been called the deferred payment system, (like the Tapanui railway, by which the money was not to be paid until the completion of the line. This was an extraordinary thing for a Government which entered into power on the cry that no money should be spent without the direct sanction of the House. Sir Geo Grey when in opposition had strongly objected to Imprest Supply Bills of a quarter of million, or even less, being granted to the late Government, and once had actually proposed a stonewall, whei the money was absolutely needed to send home by the outgoing mail to pay the Knglish creditors. Be also objected to the indefinite nature of the Bill. It should state in detail when the lines would be completed, for the experience of the recess showed clearly enough which lines were likely to be immediat ly constructed, and which let alone. Turning to the financial question, Major Atkinson declared that at the end of next June there would be absolutely no balance available to meet this expenditure of six and a half millions, besides school buildings, telegraphs, lighthouses, &c. He estimated the amount which would be required on loan this year at two millions, unless the deferred payment system of public works were extended, and that meant a payment of ten or fifteen per cent, for interest on the contract prices. He for one would never consent to such an improvident system. Sir G. Grey's finance was comprised in the words, " Let ns trust to luck." A definite and clear statement of how the money was to be raised should have been submitted with the Bill. To meet the current expenses of the year, the land fxi'.d must reach one million and a half, but during the last seven years the average had only been £9OO 000. Last year w<»b an extraordinary one, and yet the amount realised was only ,£1,500,000. Thus, on their own showing, the Government would require seven millions on loan during the next six years. Unless the Government intended to play directly into the hands of land speculators, they must reserve the land along the railway until the completion of lines, and how would they find the money in the meantime? The deferred payment contract system was not only improvident, but it would play intj the hands of a small ring of large contractors, who were the only ones who could afford to wait for tiieir money A well-digested scheme of finance based on loan should have been brought down with this Bill. The Bill also made one great departure from one of the first principles of the Public Works policy, which was that all the great trunk lines were to be constructed before branch ones. But in the schedule of the Bill, out of -£3,300,000 to be spent in the South Island £1.000,000 was for purely branch lines besides £ 1,000,000 fjr the Central Otago Hue, which miglit have some claim to be considered a main line. But before this railway was commenced the North Island hud BU absolute demand that the lines from Wellington to New Plymouth and to Napier should be constructed. Major Atkinson then devoted his attention to showing that Otflgo was exceptionally treated. Nelson and Marlborough were mo-t unfairly dealt with. Out of the sum of £2,500,000 proposed to be spent in the North Island, £ltio,ot 0 was problematical; and as the Minister for Public Works himself admitted, entirely dependent upon land being purchased from the Natives. In short the Government proposed to make the railways in the South Island from the land which the Premier called the unalienable birthright of the colony as a whole, while those in the North Island were to be constituted from the proceeds of land still in the hands of private individuals, who did not want to sell it. The Bid was a monstrous one. If tho Government simply asked for yearly appropriation, this Bill was useless. All there was to do was to add these lines to the t'ublic Works Act of last year, when every line could be separately discussed, and any hon. member could ni-ve the insertion of any other line in the schedule. He did not, however, want the Bill to be thrown out in tho present stage, and should suggest that they should let it go into Committee, and then attempt to have it mended If the Bdl were allowed to pass, it would raise up a power of corruption of which it was impossible to see the end. He would be prepared to vote for the annual appropriation. Mr Fox said Mr Macandrew showed himsely as theoretic and ignorant of fact with regard to railways as Jules Verne was in his book about the moon. He did not allow anything for mountain ranges to be got over, or rivers to be bridged, but talked as if all the country were a flat p.ain. The line proposed from Taranaki to Wellington showed gross ignorance of the country. Thero was another route a hundred miles shorter, far easier, and passing through a country inhabited entirely by friendly Natives. The Bill should have been brought in at the beginning of the session when it could have been referred a select committee. The King Country was entirely uninhabited by Europeans, and was of a desolate character, consisting of poor forests broken by deep ravines, and the House had not even the shadow of proof, in fact nothing but the word of the "Otago Daily Times" that the King had ever consented to a railway running through his territory. There was absolutely nothing to check the Ministry in constructing everyone of the southern lines as fast as money could be paid, while two-thirds of the three millions proposed to be expended in the North Island was entirely dependent upon land being acquired from Natives, who had _ never shown auy disposition to sell. The Wellington portion of the line was in this position. The £65,000 down for the Mastert ,n to Woodville section would not be required for two years, as the connection between Feathersston and Masterton would take that time at least, He sympathised with Nelson and Marlborough members, and would protest against the Otago branch lines being constructed until the trunk line was extended to Nelson. Mr Ballance said the latter part of Mr Fox's speech was a strong condemnation of the late Ministry, who could, if they had chosen, have finished the Nelson line two or three ye*rs ago. He defended Mr Macandrew from the imputation that he was acting unfairly iu tho interests of Otago. As to the North Island trunk line, the surveyors reported strongly in favour of the route selected, and against that advocated by Mr Fox. The Wellington section of the line had received more consideration from Mr Macandrew than any other, and as soon as the land was acquired the railways wo.ild be constructed. The whole of the land along the proposed line was under negotiation. He believed that the negotiations now going on with the King Natives would end iu the line being constructed. The East Coast line was being pushed on far more rapidly than under tie late Government. Mr Ballance then replied to Major Atkinson's criticis-r.s on the financial proposals of the Public Works Statement. He believe! that the land fund would show a large surplus for public works, but Mr Macandrew did not rely upon this, but upon loan. If it were necessary they would bring down a loan scheme. The late Treasurer did not do so, but asked for loans as he required there. If political railways were avoided in future there would be no difficulty in obtaining money for the construction of the lines required. The deferred payment system was in force in other colonies. The Government were told that most favorable contracts could be obtained under the system for small contracts, for which it was not desirable to raise loans. But the Government did not propose to construct many lines under this system. He was quite prepared to admit that there would be a heavy strain upon tho land fund, this year; but there were many extraordinary charges to be met, and mxt year he anticipated a large surplus. An appropriation of six millions would, he agreed, be an improper thing for ihe Government to adc for. and they never intended it; but the schedule of the Bill wa? merely intended as a guide. He hoped tlv tin Committee some agreement satisfactory to the Nelson members might be come 10. Bo believed that there would be no difficulty in obtaining loans unless war, or some exceptional event, occurred to prevent it, as sinee their formei system of finance was done away with, tho colony < oinnianded i; better position in the money market Mr Carkinoton would vote for second reading.