GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XX, Issue 1403, 14 August 1878, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[PBB PRESS AGENCY. J LEGTSLATIYE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 13. PUBLIC RESERVES BILL. Colonel Whitmore received permission to introduce a Bill to amend the Public Reserves Act, 1877. SECOND READINGS. The Literary Institutions and Public Libraries and Reprint of Statutes Bills were read a second time, PRIVILEGE. Discussion ensued on a question of privilege raised by Colonel Brett, who founded his motion on an article that appeared in the “ Timaru Herald ” of the 3rd instant, embodying certain serious reflections on the chaiacterof Mr Martin. The motion was ultimately withdrawn. The Council then adjourned, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2 30. THE BEER TAX. Mr Siihimski gave notice to movo that the tax on beer bo increased from three halfpence to threepence. LOAN AGENT AND OTAGO SUBSIDIES. Mr M'Lean gave notice to ask if the appointment of agent under the Inscription of Stock Act had been oil. red to Sir Julius Vogel; if not, why it had not been. Also, to ask why a certain sum of money mentioned in the Financial Statement had not been paid to the Oiago local bodies under the Financial Arrangements Act. deceased wipe’s sister. Dr. Hodgkinson gave notice to ask leave to introduce a Marriage with Deceased Wife’s Sister Bill. COUNTIES ACT. Mr Saunders gave notice to move that the Counties Act be repealed. PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT. In reply to Mr Rolleston, Mr Macandrbw said the House might expect the Public Works Statement next week. OPENING OP SOUTHERN RAILWAY. Mr Williams asked if Government intended to give members an opportunity of visiting the South on the occasion of the opening of the railway from Christchurch to Otago. The Premier said they would offer no objection, and informed those who were desirous of witnessing that ceremony that if they left on Thursday they would see all that was to be seen, and be back in time for Tuesday’s sitting. SCHOOL LIBRARIES. In reply to Mr O’Rorke, Mr Ballance said the Government would consider the advisability of placing a sura on the supplementary estimates for the establishment of school libraries. MINING ACCIDENTS. A return was promised of the number of accidents, fatal or otherwise, which occurred during the last three years in the mining operations of the colony. MALVERN COAL. The Government promised to lay on the table the report of the Christchurch resident engineer upon the use of Malvern coal on the Canterbury railways. FIRST READINGS. The following Bills wore read a first time 0 chunga Grammar School Bill, South Borough of Dunedin Reserve Bill, Napier Swamp Nuisance Act Amendment Bill. THE FINANCIAL PROPOSALS. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Major Atkinson asked when the Government would bring down their Bills giving effect to their financial proposals, as it would be advisable to have all necessary information before them, in order to discuss the Government policy. Mr Ballance said the Bills embodying the Government proposals were in course of completion, and it was proposed to take their second reading on Tuesday next, when the Government would be prepared to invite debate on their whole policy. At any rate, they would make such arrangements, either before or after delivery of the Public Works Statement, as would best serve the convenience of the Opposition. SUPPLY. The House went into committee. The first item of the estimates was Liabilities of 1877-78-£115,440. Major Atkinson asked for some particulars regarding certain expenditure in excess of what had been voted last year, especially in regard to certain Native expenditure. A good deal of discussion took place between Major Atkinson and Messrs Stout and McLean. Messrs Stout and Ballance contended that the information required consisted of a great many details, and they considered it unreasonable to expect the Treasurer to carry in his head all the details relating to each item. Mr McLean snid, if they were unable to furnish the information, they ought to postpone the item until such time as the Native Minister was present to answer for them. Mr Ballance was prepared to postpone the item, but Mr O’Rorke said it could not be done. Major Atkinson said they were prepared to sanction the vote, expecting the Government would subsequently furnish the information asked for. The item then passed. Legislat ivc Department—£39,s97. Some discussion ensued on the new office of usher, £250, Mr Ballance explained that it was - customary to place on the estimates any sum

recommended by the Speaker, and that in this instance it was considered by the Speaker that as the Lower house had a Sergeant atArms, the Upper House was very much in want of a similar officer, in conf >rmit.y with the linage of the House of Lords. It was usual for Government to accept such recommendations. Mr M'Lean said they had better dispense with their Sergeant-at-Arms in order to dispense with the usher. Mr Rees thought it would be wiser to dispense with the office of usher, Mr Swanson moved that the item bo struck out. Sir W. FiTZHERBERT defended (he appointment on the ground that it was just us necessary as the Sergeant at-Arms. If they wished to economise in that direction they should begin at borne. Mr Rolleston suggested that the matter should be referred to a Select Committee of both Houses. Sir W. Fitzhkbbert said it was a proper practice for the Government to bring down any item the Speaker of cither House deemed necessary to place on the estimates, and they ought not be blamed for so doing, though it did not necessarily follow they approved of what the Speakers might recommend. Mr Bowen hoped the committee would assert its right to freely discuss any proposals of the kind emanating from either Speaker, without being considered to be wanting in respect to those high officers of the Houses. He feared that the appointment was nothing more nor less than the creating of a sinecure. Sir W. Fitzuekbkrt said the committee of the other House passed under their review l ist session the position of the officers of the Council, and carnc to the conclusion that the officer referred to was neces.-ary. A division was called for on the item “ Usher, £250,” which was struck out by 40 against 23, Exc ption was talo n by Me’srs ReE3 and Swanson to the additions to the salaries of the Sneaker (£200); Chairman of Committee and Clerks of Parliament (£IOO each) ; also, to the new 011 l -e, Clerk of Writs £IOO. Sir W. Fitziikrukkt said that the offi -e of Clerk of the Writs should be seriously looked upon by the House. He put it. to the House whether harm had not already been done from the fact of the Clerk of the Writs being solely a Government officer. Mr Stout strongly opposed the view taken by the Speaker, one! argued (hat the office should be under the control of the Government, in the same way as Returning Officers and Registration Officers, and other purely elective appointments, and if the appointment was to bo made by the Governor on the recommendation of the Speaker, as he understood the Speaker to say, then (hat made matters stand worse, as the Governor had no right to accept any advice except that of his Ministers, lie would move that the item be erased. The debate was interrupted by 5.30. EVENING SITTING. SUPPLY. The House resumed at 7.30. Progress was reported, and it was agreed to go into Committee of Supply again on Friday. ELECTORAL BILL. The Premier regretted that he was not in such health as to allow him to do justice to the important subject before them. He v ould not answer any of the arguments advanced against the Bill, hut would content himself by furnishing the House with his ide i on the question. He denied that he made any pledge, as he was reported to have made by the member for Geraldine, in regard to manhood suffrage, and he could refer the House to his speech nf Titnaru respecting cumulative voting His remarks referred to municipal elections only, these elections being more of a personal matter than elections to that House. Looking at the Bill in its general aspect, one great point in the Bill was the residential qualification. lie proceeded to comment on the sys'em of manhood suffrage, as it obtained in d fferent countries, to show what an important influence the local oh-cumst-incoa of different countries had upon the system of manhood suffrage, and when they were framing the present Bill they had in mind the experience gained in other countries in respect fo manhood suffrage. He c intended that this Bdl would infound to ho a great charter of rights to the people. It would bo unwise to introduce manhood suffrage, pure and simple, without soaie wholesome checks. The necessity of these proven'ive checks was illustrated by the growth of the Chinese question, as in America. The hon. gentleman hero touched upon the beneficial legislation as to education, and the land tax, as contrasted with the supinencss of the late Government, who oniy cried out for political rest. He asked the House not to shut their eyes to the fact that there were several thousand male adults in the colony who had no vole, and to grant the suffrage to so enormous a number of men must be considered a great thing. It wus one of the valuable privileges granted upon the charter of rights. Thousands of young men in the colony, well qualified to vote, might, under the old system, go for an indefinite period without acquiring the inestimable privilege of power to vote. But it was well that strangers coming to this colony should by residence have time to acquire some knowledge of the colony and its politics, before being allowed a vote, lie had every confidence in the good results that would (low from the widest possible extension of the franchise. He was so satisfied of the provisions of the present Bdl to effect the objects they had in view, by granting a broader basis of suffrage, that he felt convinced that to introduce any other Bill this session dealing with the question before them would be illadvised. They might bo asked why this that or the other thing was omitted from the Bill. Well, they had to frame a Bill whi h they felt assured the House would p ss. In truth ho was uot anxious to go too far. What. Government desired first of all was to get thorough representation for New Zealand, and once the representation was placed upon a proper basis, and the people educated to the use of their suffrage, then would bo the time to deal with those questions that they might be said to have omitted, such as payment ox members, and other large questions. He appealed to the House to assist him and Ids colleagues in carrying out the great and good work they had in hand. Let them cling together, and not allow themselves to be separated by the reviling of those opposed to them.

Dr. Wallis said he rose to expostulate in n quiet and friendly way with the Ministry for not going the full length of manhood suff rage while they wore about it. Ministers evidently thought the House would not pass manhood suffrage, and gave them something less. Personally, he was in a dilemma over the Bill, and searceH knew how to vote. There were two Bills before the House, and in each he saw admirable features, but of the two he rather preferred the Bill of the member for Waikato. The onward and upward movement of society must sooner or later produce universal suffrage. He believed, if the Premier would throw over the one or two Conservative members in his Cabinet they might still have universal suffrage. Taxation and representation should go hand in hand. Everyone who paid taxes and lived in the colony should have a vote. Unrepresented interests were always overlooked and neglected. With regard to the qualification of Maoris, why should they bo allowed a double or special representation in a country like this? Until Ministers brought in a measure granting Maoris the same privileges as Europeans, Maoris should only be allowed to vote for their own members. Another blemish on the Bill was the want of some plan for the redistribution of representation The hon. gentleman proceeded to defend Hare’s proportional system as the best system that could bo adopted. If it was good for corporations, as admitted by the Attorney-Q-eneral, it was also good for the Higher class of representation. NEW MEMBER. At this stage Mr Driver, the member for Roslyn, was introduced by Messrs Macandrew and Richardson, and took the oath and his seat. ELECTORAL BILL CONTTNUED, Mr Gt3bokkk agreed with manhood suffrage, but ho also believed in property being to a certain extent represented, but he

regarded the Premier as not in accord with his colleagues. Ho could hardly think that granting the franchise to women waa a serious proposition. Homo was the only place where women could properly make laws for order and government. To bring them to that House would bo a double failure. The women would not bo found fit representati vea ar.d would be rendered unfit for their other functions. Ho opposed Hare’s system on similar grounds to those already urged against it. He hoped the Government would yet bo able during the session to inform the House when they intended to bring in a measure for the adjustment of representation which was very much wanted. Mr Saunders said ho neither agreed with the Bill itself nor, strange to say, with the objections against it. Ho strongly objected to the Bill doing away with the time-honored feature of elections —the hustings, where the candidates and proposers and seconders had to come face to free with electors. This ho held to he one of the best means of educating the people. As for the ballot, he wonld prefer a free and open system of voting. He thought that now was the time for the House to deal with the difficulty arising out of plurality of votes. In regard to this particular thing, he regretted to say the Premier had gone backwards, instead of forwards. Though in corning to the House, he thought he should, in all probability, have had to assist in holding the Premier from advancing too far ahead, in that respect he was disappointed. He hoped the House would endeavour to put a reasonable limit upon the plurality of voting. It, would he wise for (he House to divest itself of some of the power now pertaining to property. If they did not do so, they might expect some retaliation when the franchise became so widely extended as was inevitable. He considered it would be a mistake to see women introduced into that House, or give votes to married women, which would bo certain to bo exercised to swamp the votes of single women. He would not bo inclined to think very much of married women who did not vote in the some direction as their husbands. As to the residential qualification, he would (like to see it exiended to all classes, de wanted to see more equality introduced into the measure, so that it would affect the men with and without property in the same way. Provisions should be introduced allowing applications to vote to bo signed in the presence of another elector instead of before aJ. P. They should also eliminate anything giving power to absentees to swamp an election. Hr approved of closing public-houses during elections, because the efficacy of that provision had been proved in America. The hon. gentleman then took exception to several minor details of the Bill. He regretted that in this Bill provision had not been made for a redistribution of seats. Ho hoped the Government; might yet do it. Toe debate is continuing.