MR MURRAY-AYNSLEY AT LYTTELTON.

Globe, Volume IX, Issue 1357, 20 June 1878, Page 3

MR MURRAY-AYNSLEY AT LYTTELTON.

Mr H. P. Murray-Aynsley, M.H.R. for Lyttelton, addressed his constituents last evening at the Colonists' Hall. There was a very good attendance, the hall being filled. The Mayor of Lyttelton, Mr H. Allwright, occupied the chair. His Worship said that Mr Aynslcy had asked him to take the chair on that occasion, as it was the duty of the Mayor to take the chair at all public meetings within the borough. He need scarcely ask them to give Mr Aynsley a fair and impartial hearing as he was sure they would do that. He would not longer detain them, but would call on Mr Aynsley to address them. Mr Aynsley said that lie had asked them to meet him that evening to enable them to give an expression of their opinion as to what he had done since he last met them. They had had a most unsatisfactory session, as questions were started which took up a lot of time without any result, and when really valuable public questions came up there was no time to discuss them. He might say that the municipal endowment for the town of Lyttclton had been attacked by the northern members, but they had managed to retain the 2000 acres endowment. They had also arranged for tho land for the Harbor Board, and he trusted to see the port in time havo one of the finest docks in the colony. He trusted also that before long they would see Lyttelton tako the position it was entitled to, as one of the chief ports of the colony. They sent away_ the largest tonnage, and he thought that with a dock, capable of docking the largest vessels, Lyttelton woidd be the finest port in the colony. [Hear, hear ] They had also had before them a Lands Bill, and in connection with this a most extraordinary thing occurred, viz., Sir George Grey asking the Governor to veto the Bill, after being passed by the Houbo. The real fact was that the tenure of the pastoral tenants was not fixed any more than before. There was an assessment to be made, and a certain value paid by runholders. Tho country was now becoming settled, and the largo estates, of which so much had been eaid, would soon be broken up. When the people were unable to get the land, then would be the time to say that the pastoral tenants were stopping settlement. But here every one was buying land. The great point with tho North was how to get hold of the Canterbury land fund, and at last they succeeded. They had fought hard against it, and had been supported by Major Atkinson's Government. So soon as they went out, there were some Canterbury members who joined the party of Sir George Grey, and one gentleman -the member for Heathcote—had joined the Government who had taken the land fund of Canterbury. That Canterbury member evidently forgot a speech made by him, in which he spoke as follows :—" I object to the proposal made, and while I am in this House there will be at least one voice raised against making the land fund colonial property, for I know that if tho land fund ever went through the colonial sieve there would be little loft to go to the provinces." But when he took office with the Government of Sir George Grey that gentleman forgot all this, and mado one of those who were the first to take the land fund of Canterbury. Had the Canterbury members he had spoken of stuck to those who opposed the taking of the land fund they would havo had it for at least a year longer. There was no doubt, as he had told them before, that the land fund would have to go, but still it might have been preserved for another year. All Sir George's party cared for in tho framing of the estimates was the spending of money in Otago and Auckland. They in Canterbury had nothing to hope from them, and all the money, or a great portion of it, was spent in the two places referred to. As regarded Mr Fox's Local Option Bill, he had said he would support it if it contained a compensation clause, as he held that it was only right that if the licenses were swept away, after expenses beiug incurred under the existing law, it was right that they should compensate any ono in such a position. If a house was badly conducted, then they could shut it up, as the agreement would then be broken, but houses which were well conducted should, when a change of law was made, be compensated. Ho had therefore joined with others in telling Mr Fox that they would not support his Bill unless compensation was given. It was not fair that the man who had gone to a large expense in compliance with the law should, when_ a change in the law riuned his property, receive no compensation. Mr Bowen's Bill on Education contained a clause as to capitation being paid which was thrown out. He had supported the compulsory clause because, when the State went to a large expensa on education, it was only right that they should compel the parents to send their children, because if they were allowed to use their own discretion in the matter the next generation would grow up uneducated. He did not like compulsion, but they had no other means than the one they had used. They had large educational reserves for primary and classical education ; but he did not think they would be allowed to retain them long, as so soon as the Canterbury land fund was exhausted the taste for b}ood woidd be bo strong in the Northern members that they would require the educational reserves to be put into the common stock. The Northern members had been restrained for some time, but they woidd now consider themselves free, and would go in for having a share of the land revenue derived from these reserves. They would not long look on and see us eating our cake in the shape of educational reserves without wanting a piece of it. Ha saw from a- telegram lately thai? the Government had informed the civil servants'that they would have to insure their lives so as to provide for their families, as the Government did not intend to pay pensions. This he thought wr r s very unfair, as the officers had been working for some twenty yearg fin' this reward, it the Government had intended to do this, they should have told them that they would increase their pay so as to enable them to pay the premium of the insurance. He was in favour of economy in the civil service, but in the way of reducing officers where more were employed than was necessary; but to deprive officials of their hard earned pensions without any notice was a great hardship". He might point out that a largu amount of public, money was wasted by members calling for useless, returns. He knew of one ease in which a return coating some £250 had just been opened by the member calling for it, and that was all. It was very hard to know how to deal with this matter, as some returns were very valuable indeed. They had had Sir George Grey and the Ministers going round the country telling them what measures they were going to introduce, and in ™.r.uj instances it was have 1 , to vindevstanci what they I veaJiy meant. As regarded manhood , ha did rot knowwh-t ths-t meant. If, as they were told by Mr Ballance, there was to be a residential suffrage, that was just what . th"y had now. If they meant every man - having a vote, then he disagreed with it. [ What tho Government should do was to bring in a Bill so that every man who owned property, lived in a house or paid rates could get i on the roll easily, then they would find few . off it except those who belonged to no dara of society except, that of Joafeja. Those who would bo absc-uc from the roll in the ease'of ' registration beint; simplified, would only be wan- ! d'erers who would be of no use to any country.' i These were his opinions. He could' v,ot Rive f them an idea how he should vote on a BUI the | purport of which he did not know. But they could gather from what ho had said • that his idea was that the forms of • registration should be simplified. As rei garded triennial parliaments, which was one ', of tho queetioi s brought forward by Sir ) George Grey, ho was in i'avor of the duration

of parliaments being shortened. They had increased their population 50 per cent, and the people who had como in had had no part in the elections. The shortening of tho duration of parliaments would have tho effect of bringing the members and their constituents more into harmony, and ho thought that if the parliaments were reduced to three years far more work would be done and less time would be wasted. They would therefore gather from what he had said that he was in favour of triennial parliaments. When Sir George Grey's motion was asked to be withdrawn, he (Mr Aynsley) had forced the division on the motion, and the very persons voting against the motion were members of Sir George Grey's own party. As regarded Sir George Grey's theory of representation by numbers he would say that the result would be that tho centres would bo largelyrepresented, and the country districts only inadequately so. Ho had made a calculation by which he found that in Great Britain the number of electors for the vcar 1877 was as follows :—England and Wales, 2,377,822; Scotland, 303,983; Ireland, 227,872. The number of members returned was as follows: — England and Wales, 489; Scotland, 60; Ireland, 103, or an average on the whole of one member for every 44(32 of the population in Great Britain. The actual figures were England and Wales—one for every 4821 electors; Scotland, one for every 5066 ; Ireland, one for every 2212. In New Zealand the population was about 399,075, or equal at 84 members to 1 in 4750 of the population. Lyttleton would therefore, unless some other district was joined on to it, not have a member. Theirs was a particular interest, which required representation, and therefore he said that it was not right to have a population basis. They must have some arrangement so as to meet all requirements. Take the case of Lyttelton. It would perhaps bo that they would have to be tacked on to Sumner, the residents of which might entertain different views on political and local subjects to those held by the residents of Lyttelton. There was, it was true, necessity for redistribution, as the Canterbury district had not enough members, whilst there were places which were over-repre-sented, but ho objected to a population basis. There had been a Bill introduced to do away with the Disqualification Act which prevented a member taking office under Government from being a member of the House for twelve months after his acceptance of such office. Now, he was opposed to this being repealed, and indeed he trusted to see the clause repealed which was introduced to allow of Superintendents carrying on the government until the new state of things came into force. Another point was tho change of the incidence of taxation by_ reducing the duties on tea and sugar. It might be necessary to reduce these somewhat, but if they took off these duties altogether, as proposed, they reduced their taxing power on the natives and the gold miners. If more taxation was required, he was in favor of a property tax, reducing the tax slightly on tea and sugar. If they had to impose more taxes, let them have a property tax, so as to reach all property, such as shares in public companies, &c. He could not support an income tax because of the difficulty of collection. It was proposed to have a land tax, divided into three classes. They in Canterbury had good, indifferent, and bad land, but their bad land was superior in many respects to land in the North. He could not see how the system proposed would work. It would bo far better to havo a system of valuation, the same as they had for their rating. When the railways and roads were extended people would improve their properties. Bat they could not punish a man because he was, lying by until an access was given to a market. Their railways were not worked to that advantage that they should be, because the people in the other part of the colony were unable to realise the great progress made by them here year by year, and that if they were supplied thi3 year with rolling stock it would be totally inadequate to tho requirements of the next year's grain traffic. In time, however, they would find that they would reap a revenue from the railways, more particularly when the Dunedin line was opened, which would develope a very large amount of traffic. The Government were supposed to carry out the intentions of the late Government with respect to the inspection of the harbors as to defence purposes by Sir W. Jervois and Colonel Scratchley. But Sir George Grey had refused to send the Hinemoa to bring these officers because she was engaged elsewhere. But what was the fact? why, that tho Hinemoa had been used as a pleasure yacht by Sir George Grey's political friends and personal connections. Now they were in this position, that in case of war breaking out they were utterly defenceless. They need not fear a fleet, but then they might look forward in case of war to a smart ship of war running down to their port 3 to pick up gold ships or destroy their commence. The Harbor Board had done all they could in the matter, and all they were told was that the Government would, in case of war being declared, obtain a report; as to the best means of defence. That was simply going to do tho work of defence when it was too late. The Government had, it seemed determined to go in for economy, and had thrown the maintenance of charitable aid and hospitals on to the municipalities. This ho objected to. What should be done was that the cost of the hospitals should be divided amongst those counties or municipalities, according to the proportion of patients comirg from them. The hospitals must be central, and they -would have to bo managed by a central Board. As to the charitable aid those who couid not work from aecident or otherwise would, he believed, be succoured by the people at large, bu,fc still lie considered that it was not right that those institutions should be thrown on to tho municipalities unpreparedly, as the Government appeared to. wish to do. There had been a Bill be P ore the House, but this provided for subscriptions, which ho did not believe in. He would wwh to see it placed on rates according to the proportion of patients from the respective districts. Each district would be rey.res6iii.od. on the Bon,"d of Management, who would be responsible to the ratepayers.' But'what he said'was'this, that to throw tho care of these people suddenly on to the lcc.it bodies was likely to renult in hardship to those who wore j not' able : to work. As regarded the Native ' question, the R-oyornmant •./ere pressing {heir policy, and, as they were now at peace, no doubt no questions would hi asked. As to their loans, they owed a deep debt of gratitude to Sir Julius Vogel for his efforts in the case of tho inscription of stock which had been effected. [Hear, hear.] He thought that the high position that New Zealand occupied was proved by tho fact that the new lean had been more t-h'aii Bubscribed for in one flay. [Clua.'-s.] This too, despite the very injudicious conduct of the Hon. Mr Larnach, who had tried to prove that the colony was going fast to the dogs. With regard to the next session, he might fay that the Government had promised that the Assembly should meet early in June, so that the session might be got through early. But now they saw that the ses3ion would not come on until the first week in July, and this would probably be the last week in July, bq that members would b? to return to their bnsinesj hefove the session was over. As regarded the Upper House, he looked upon it a? a safeguard to their legislation. It acted as a very safe check upon hasty legislation, and he felt sure they would rue tho day when it became an elective one. In this case it would require to' haye an equal voice in money Bills, and then they would have deadlocks and all sorts of impeding of legislation. With regard to the question of education, ho mn«t Bny this, that it required to havs an element ot religion i" j*;, cpj else they would find the rising generation despising the one day of rest and using the Sunday as any other working day. [Cheers.] He should be glad to answer any questions. [Cheers.!

Mr Gru'ol., reforrod li> tho. late ease of the desecration bi tho Sabbath »i tyttelton, f-fl'irming that more Sunday Tfori -.vent on in tiyttelton than in any other part of New Zealand. He would like to nst Mr Aynsley how it was that, the Harbor Board could not stop the late ditcharge of the steamer on Sunday. Mr Aynsley said this was a mutter which rested with the Genoral Government atone.,

The Harbor Board had nothing wnatever to do with it: All the latter had to do was to keep the wharves in order and have the general control of the harbor. Mr Q-rubb thought this was an evasive answer. 'The harbormaster was an officer of the Board, and had power to order any steamer away from the wharf. Now here was a case in which there was no necessity, and he thought the harbormaster should have exercised his authority. Mr Aynsley said that the Harbor Board had passed a resolution urging on the Government the necessity of putting a stop to working in Lyttelton on Sunday. Mr G. Agar—l think, Mr Mayor, that instead of dredging out the harbor we should fill it up, and keep the steamers out in the Btream. [Chaers and laughter.] Mr Webb said he desired to ask Mr Aynsloy whether he voted for opening the publichouses on Sunday. Mr Aynsley said that he did not do this. What ho had said, however, was that it would be much better to have legalised two hours' opening of the public houses during Sundays, instead of having the present system of sliding into back doors, [Hear, hear.] At present a Sumner resident could come to Lyttelton and get drunk on a Sunday if lie liked, and the Lyttelton resident could go to Sumner and do the same. Mr Agar—Mr Mayor: I wish to ask Mr Aynsley if he will represent to Sir George Grey next time he sees him that we in Lyttelton consider ourselves slighted by his not addressing us when he was in Canterbury. Not that I care personally, because I am a Sir Julius Vogel's man, and so I think we mostly are here, but still I should like to have heard what Sir George Grey had to say. [Cheers.] Mr Aynsley said that perhaps Sir Goorge Grey knowing that Mr Agar and the people of Lyttelton were supporters of Sir Julius Vogel, did not think thcro was much use in coming to Lyttelton. In answer to Mr Webb, Mr Aynalcy said that, as he had supported the compulsory clause in the Education Bill, he would only be too ready to support any necessary modification in it in order to make it workable. In answer to Mr Erickson, Mr Aynsley said that he did not think any elector should have more than one vote for any district he might be resident in and voting for. [Cheers.] Mr Aynsley then proposed a cordial vote of thanks to his Worship for his conduct in the chair that evening. [Cheers.] His Worship, in responding, said that they all knew ho was an opponent of Mr Aynsley, but as Mayor of the borough it was his duty (o tako the chair on the occasion of this meeting. He was gkd to find that Mr Aynsley had stated that, though in opposition, he had conducted the proceedings fairly. [Cheers.] The meeting then terminated.