HOSPITALS AND CHARITABLE AID.

Globe, Volume IX, Issue 1251, 22 March 1878, Page 3

HOSPITALS AND CHARITABLE AID.

A conference of chairmen of County Councils and Mayors took place yesterday, at the City Council Chamber, with regard to the question of dealing with hospitals and charitable aid. Present—-Hon. J. Hall (chairman) Selwyn County Council), Messrs EC. Latter (chairman Akaroa County Council), W. C. Walker (chairman Ashburton County Council), H. Thomson (Mayor of Christchurch), H. Allwright (Mayor of Lyttelton), G. Booth (Mayor of Sydenham), J. W. Ellen (Mayor of Kaiapoi), GK Cliff (Mayor of Timaru), and Dr. Turnbull. His Worship the Mayor of Lyttelton moved that the Mayor of Christchurch take the chair, which was agreed to. The Chairman said the City Council had been in communication with the General Government as to the future management of hospitals and charitable aid. The Council did not see their way clear to accede to the request of the Government, and therefore determined that the representatives of the various bodies interested should be called together to consider the matter. As a preliminary step he would ask the town clerk to read the letter from the Q-overnment which hod been the cause of the meeting. The town clerk then read the letter which has already been published, asking if the Council were willing to take over the Hospital on the basis of £1 for £1 contributed being subscribed by the Government. The Chairman said, so far as the City Council were concerned, they did not see their way clear to take over the institutions spoken of, as the expenditure was too large. He might mention that the charitable aid amounted to something like £l5O per month, and the Hospital some £7OOO or £BOOO per year. Mr Latter enquired whether this was for Christchurch alone, or for the county ? The Chairman said that he understood it to be for Christchurch alone, at any rate the Orphanage in Lyttelton was not included in the return. Mr Booth asked whether the chairman could tell him the cost of the Hospital for the year P The Chairman said that he believed it would be about what ho had stated, some £7OOO or £BOOO per annum. Mr Booth said there were some figures put before them as to the total deductions from the subsidy paid to Canterbury. Would it not bo as well if the chairman explained these deductions to the meeting. He saw that the amount was divided according to the 13th clause of the Financial Arrangements Act. He would also like, to know'.what was the moaning of the Government offering to give an equivalent to subscriptions received by the hospitals, &c. Was this intended to cover the rates levied for the purpose or only voluntary subscriptions ? The Chairman said he was not prepared to say what was the meaning of the , Government. He thought that if they rated themselves it was the same as giving a voluntary contribution. Mr Booth thought this was a very important question, and the: City -.Council should have applied to the Government for information required. Mr Allwright took it that they had met there that day not to discuss statistics sent down by the Government, but to decide whether the counties and municipalities were prepared to take over these institutions. Hon. John Hall, as representing a county, approached this subject with considerable difficulty. The letter read gave but little information, and he saw the printed statement of figures which had been sent down for the first time. He took it that the meaning of the Government was that the hospitals should be taken over by the municipalities in which they might happen to be situate. He desired to draw the attention of the conference to the resolutions on this subject, which had been passed by a conference of chuirme" of counties in Juno last, as follows —“ laht it [i,c. the management of hospital* andjenant*

able aid), would be best provided for by districts being defined, comprising counties or groups of counties, with contiguous or included municipalities, which are likely to avail themselves of the same charitable institutions. That within such districts public charitable institutions should bo administered, and charitable aid distributed, by a Board representing the several municipal bodies and County Councils included therein. That such portion of the cost of these institutions and of charitable aid, as is required to he provided by local bodies, should bo contributed by the several municipalities and counties interested in proportion to their population.” It had been decided, as a general proposition, that the method of paying this contribution should be left to the body making it, whether by rates or voluntary contribution. It seemed to him that the propositions contained in the resolutions were much fairer than the proposals of the Government. If persons happened to be taken ill in a certain borough or county, though president in another county or borough, the one in which the patient was taken ill would be charged with the cost under the Government proposals, which would cause, as at home, endless litigation and confusion. Besides, he felt that if the counties and municipalities were to bear the cost, they would desire to have a share in their management. [Hear, hear.] Besides this, it was considered that the dependence on voluntary contributions was not a good thing. Therefore, when the subject was discussed at the Selwyn County Council, the members were in favor of the scheme proposed by the delegates at the meeting in June last. For these reasons ho thought they ought to pause before they decided upon taking over those institutions on the basis proposed by the Government. He could not at all agree with the idea that because an institution happened to be in a borough or county they should be saddled with the responsibility of its management. They might as well say that the Lyttelton Borough Council should undertake the management of the Lyttelton Orphanage,or the Spreydon Road Board of the Lunatic Asylum, because these institutions happened to be in the districts named. The management of institutions such as these was quite beyond the functions of such bodies, and interested wider areas. Mr Latter said that his opinion was that the cost of these institutions should be defrayed out of county funds, as the municicipalities did not only use the hospitals. Therefore there ought to bo paid out of the county funds sufficient to keep these institutions going. Mr Booth thought that whether the Municipal Council or the County Council liked it or not they would have to take the hospitals and charitable aid under their management, or rather they would have to pay for their support by the deductions which were made. If they did not do so they placed themselves under great disadvantages, because it was very important that these institutions should be under local management. If they took them over they would not bo in a worse condition than now, because they would receive just as much, and would have the management of these institutions. He therefore hoped that Mr Hall would propose a motion to the effect that the hospitals and charitable aid should be taken over upon a basis to be agreed upon. The Chairman said ho desired to point out to Mr Booth that as Mayor of Christchurch he regarded this question from a very different light to what the Mayor of Sydenham did. What the Government wanted was for them to take over these institutions. Now they paid for them out of the subsidies paid by the General Government, but how long would they last ? If Mr Booth or the Government could guarantee that the subsidies would exist as long as the expenses of the Hospital, then he would go with Sydenham. But from all enquiries ho had made he found that it was not probable that these subsidies would continue for long. Therefore they would find themselves in this position, that they would be saddled with a large expense, and without the subsidies which they now received, Mr Allwright said that they in Lyttelton were paying some £6OO for the benefitof other counties and municipalities. After some further discussion of a conversational nature, Mr Allwright moved—" That in the opinion of this conference the proposals of the Government for the management of hospitals and charitable institutions are not calculated to place the management of these institutions upon a fair and satisfactory footing.” Hon. John Hall seconded the motion. Mr Booth could not regard this resolution as at all satisfactory He was of opinion that the time was come when they should take over these institutions, and they should now consider the basis upon which they would be prepared to take over the management of the institutions. He trusted Mr Hall would withdraw his resolution, and allow the conference to consider the basis upon which the hospitals and charitable aid should be taken over. The Chairman pointed out that Mr Booth seemed to forget that the City Council had been asked to take over these institutions. Mr Allwright said that the Lyttelton Borough Council had been asked to take over the Lyttelton Orphanage. The motion was then put and carried. Hon. John Hall said that the conference having declined to take up the proposal of the Government, he ventured to propose a scheme upon which he thought they could manage these institutions. It was based upon the recommendations of the conference of county chairmen in June last. He therefore moved the following resolution—“ That this conference is of opinion that the following would bo the basis upon which the hospitals and administration of charitable aid would be best managed, viz : That it would be best provided for by districts being denned, comprising counties, or groups of counties, with contiguous or included municipalities, which are likely to avail themselves of the same charitable institutions. That within such districts public charitable institutions should be administered, and charitable aid distributed by, a Board representing the Government, the several municipal bodies, and County Councils included therein. That such portion of the cost of these institutions, and of charitable aid as is required to be provided by local bodies, should be contributed by the several municipalities and counties interested in proportion to their population.” There could, he contended, be no fairer basis upon which the several districts were interested in these institutions than by the respective amount of population. And to decide upon this a yearly census would not be a very costly system. He had not gone on to propose any scheme of raising the money required whether by rate or voluntary contribution. That, he thought, was better left to the districts themselves to decide according to their respective circumstances. So long as the money was provided, it seemed to him that there was not much difference as to how it was done. Mr Booth seconded the motion. Dr. Turnbull quite agreed with the resolution, but thought that there should be another clause to the effect that, considering the large contribution of Canterbury to the general revenue, the hospitals in the provincial district should be endowed, and also that, there should bo in connection with the principal hospital of the provincial district a medical school. Mr Cliff suggested that it would be os well if they pcssed a resolution asking the Government to endow the hospitals in this provincial district first, and then consider the way in which the balance was to be made up. Dr. Turnbull stud that Hie Government themselves had pointed out the necessity of a medical school being established in connection with the hospital. He wished to point out that as regarded Mr Hall’s motion, the central hospital would have to bear a larger share of the cost than any of those outside. Now they had a large number of persons coming from South Canterbury to the central hospital. His own idea was that the money should be raised throughout the whole provincial district, and the money so collected distributed by the Board according to the number of patients in the hospital, or the number relieved by charitable aid. This would be a fair state of tilings. Mr Walker agreed with Mr Hall’s resolution. They must remember that now they had a hospital at Ashburton and one at Aiaroa, and elsewhere. Ae the districts

progressed they would have these hospitals increasing in efficiency, and the whole of the provincial district would then be divided into hospital and charitable aid districts. Mr Cliff could support Mr Hall’s motion with one exception, that of the basis of population. lie did not think this was fair, but that it would he better to have a rate throughout the whole provincial district upon the rateable value of property. Mr Allwright supported Mr Hall’s proposition. He could not agree with the Mayor of Tirnaru us to rating according to value of the property. If this were done the municipalities would have to pay more than the country districts, because the property in the towns was of course far more valuable than in the country. Mr Latter considered that so far as Akaroa was concerned, Mr Hall’s proposition was the fairest, and the one which would best meet the circumstances of the case. Mr Booth said that they were presuming that the patients would pay nothing. He thought that many patients would be in a position to pay for their attendance. So far as the resolution went, lie was in favor of a population basis. The Chairman was also in favor of a population basis. He thought that taking the census returns would be quite enough, as if the country progressed so would the town, and for all practical purposes the taking of the census would be sufficient. The Chairman said he thought the population basis was a fair system, but he hardly knew how it w r ould work with regard to the distribution of charitable aid. The extent of charitable aid had reached a very great pitch, so much so that people came here for the purpose of living on the charity of the people here. They must recollect that if they were liberal in putting people on the charitable aid list, Tirnaru and elsewhere would have to pay for their liberality. The motion was then put and carried unanimously. Dr. Turnbull then moved —“ That no endowments having been made for hospitals in Canterbury, the Government be now requested to make suitable endowments in Canterbury for hospital purposes.” Mr Latter seconded the motion, which was agreed to. It was resolved that the resolutions as passed should be laid before the various County Councils and Borough Councils by their representatives. A vote of thanks to the chairman concluded the business.