GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume VIII, Issue 1057, 16 November 1877, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Telegraph.] [pee pbeßß agency.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thtjbsday, November 15. The only important feature of business was the adoption of a new clause in tho Education Bill by which the Board is enabled to grant to any school committee such aid in books, school apparatus, and money as the Board maj think expedient, or, at the option oi the committee, such aid may b=> granted in money only. This was carried on division by a majority of cue. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, November 15. The House met at 2.30. Leave of absence for the remainder of tht gession was granted to Mr Button,

ME LUSK'S CASE. Mr Eees gave notice of motion —" That in the resolution passed relative to MrLusk the Houso did not mean to impute corrupt conduct to him, and that the fine of £SO be remitted." NEW BUM. Hntt to Palmerston North Land Eeservafcion Eailway Bill (Travers), Foxton Harbor Endowment and Borrowing Bill (Johnston). disqualification. Sir G. Grey moved the second reading of the Disqualification Act Amendment Bill, No. 2, the object of which was to correct a technical error in the existing law. Mr Eeynolds regretted that the Bill did not go further. At present the law was a trap to catch members who might violate the law without the slightest idea that they were doing so. Had it not been for the error now proposed to be corrected, he and many others would have lost their seat 3. He had bought a newspaper with all its engagements, one of which was a Government contract of which he knew nothing, and this would have disqualified him. There were many other similar cases, and members who might inadvertently violate the Act should not be at the mercy of anyone who liked to sue for £IOO per day.

Mr Whitakee said the Bill would disqualify several members of the House. He regretted that the Government had accepted all the recommendations of the disqualification committee instead of only the one embodied in the Bill. He thought questions of disqualification should be decided by the Supreme Court, but the House should be able to prevent the imposition of penalties. Mr Baeff and Mr Eees opposed the Bill, urging that, having brought it forward on the recommendation of the committee, the Government should not attempt to press the Bill. Mr Kelly and Sir E. Douglas opposed the Bill. Mr Eeid thought Parliament could protect its own purity and honor, and that all that was necessary was to prevent contractors and civil servants from sitting in the House. Mr Montgomery preferred the Supreme Court deciding questions of disqualification. Mr Kennedy explained that he would have been disqualified in regard to a coal contract if it had not been for the error in the Act, and yet he had not actually known that he was a contractor for some time after he became so. He had certainly lost rather than gained by his contract, and had nothing to do with the contract now. It had not in any way affected his conduct in the House.

j Sir G. G-EEY said the Bill had been drawn in accordance with the report of the committee to correct an oversight in the existing i Act, and render operative the intentions of | Parliament. It could not be introduced without having retrospective effect, as affecting those seats which would become vacant under it. He would leave the Bill entirely in the hands of the House, the Government having no personal desire to push it forward. They were already preparing a Bill to alter the whole electoral machinery in accordance with modern practice, simplifying procedure and referring the trial of all elections to an independent tribunal. This Bill would be introduced next session, and it would deal not only with the franchise and elections, but also with disqualification. If members liked to await this complete measure the Government would have no objection to this Bill being rejected. The Bill was read a second time on [the voices. jj BILLS. The Fish Protection Bill was read a third j time. The Miners Bill was further considered in committee, reported as amended, and read a third time. The Shipping and Seamen's Bill was read a second time and partially considered in committee. Evening Sitting-. THE NATIVE MINISTER'S STATEMENT. On the House resuming, the Hon. Treasurer gave notice of an Imprest Supply Bill for tomorrow. i The Hon. Native Ministee (Mr Sheehan) in moving the second reading of the Native | Lands Act, 1873, Amendment Bill, said the { Bill was of a purely technical character, and i had no relation to the statement he was about to make, and which would have been made | earlier had it not been for ill-health. He was i jj still suffering, and therefore asked the I indulgence of the House in speaking. No ! j one had less idea last session than he had that j ! this year he would be Native Minister. ! i Greatness had been thrust upon him, or, if j ! he had achieved it he had done so in spite of ; being the best abused man in the House in ] ! regard to Native matters. He referred to and ! 1 quoted Mr Fox's remarks in the late debate in reference to his connection with the repudiation party. He was then unable to reply, but would do so now. He was now about to propound the policy Mr Fox was so anxious for. Mr Fox's statement about an envoy from the repudiation party visiting Rangitikei lately, was untrue. His connection with the repudiation party, moreover, was simply that of solicitor and client. Had he not allowed motives of public policy to influence him that connection would have been much more profitable. He had lent himself to no improper practices, but had given honest aid, as far as possible, to his clients in defending their legal rights, and Ihis services had, he believed, been instrumental in averting another kind of warfare than that in Courts of Law. He '• had been the advocate for the Natives, but in his present position had of course ceased to do so. His having been a faithful advocate, however, qualified him to be in impartial advocate. He had confined his advocacy for years to Hawke's Bay, and refused to take them up elsewhere, as he would not lend himself to any general agitation, but confined himself entirely to ordinary professional work. He had refused to take up many cases ugainst the Government, and prevented many being brought. He had neither aided nor abetted nor suffered tho acts which had taken place at Titirangi, but had dis- ' c-ountonanced them in every way. Ho held in his hand telegrams showing that the dleged cattle stealing cases in Waikato, of which so much had been made, had no real ! foundation. Surveys had certainly been (topped in certain places, but it was because •f a misapprehension in the Native mind .bout reserves being made. These wore no aore fair arguments against his Government turn Sullivan's murder and other outrages 'ere against the late Government. He felt turt at Mr Fox's statement, remembering iow Mr Fos had climbed into power as the

advocate and defender of Native interests. Foi , the last five or six years Native affairs had been in one man's hand, with only an occn sional progress report, therefore he would g> more into details in his statement than wout otherwise have been necessary. A policy had prevailed up to 1859 termed thflour and sugar policy, which wa> in many respects an advantageous one If things could be recalled the Waikatc war which took place in 1863 would not hav. been entered into. From then to 1869 sue cessive wars took place. Since then almost unbroken peace had prevailed. He was not disposed to overlook the benefit to this island from the Public Works and Immigration policy, and he was glad to say that, overlooking all party differences, it was largely due to Sir Donald M'Lean that peace had prevailed since 1869. It would have been suicidal to in any way have provoked conflict at a time when the colony was carrying out such a policy of public works, and if occasional outrages had been allowed to pass unpunished, it was on the whole better for the general good of the whole community. Looking at the chance of a future outbreak the population in the North Island was 23,639 males, 19,769 females, distributed to a large extent north of Auckland, and on the East Coast. There was absolutely no chance of war in these places. The only possible place was in the King country, where there were in all only a native population of 5255, of whom only 2666 were males. Against these were 25,000 friendly natives, and a European population of 40,000 men. The Native population was also steadily decreasing and all evidence the Government could collect pointed out that there was no longer reason to fear a Native war. Even m the King country the Natives were becoming reconciled to their position and anxious to cultivate friendly relations. He did not think even in the King country an armed force could now be raised against the Europeans. It was desirable that this should be known, as the Public Works scheme was not yet finished and much more money has to be borrowed yet to complete it satisfactorily. If public works extended to Native districts all chance of rebellion would disappear. The roads already made were valuable as having satisfied the Natives, and also opened up the country in a strategical point of view, so that the whole country could now be easily traversed. Justice in Native districts was administered by an army of Native officials. In one district some time ago he found every man receiving G-overnment pay. There was a large field open for reduction in this direction, but the system of medical comforts and assistance might fairly be continued. It was only extending to Native districts a system in force amongst Europeans in large cities. As to education, Maoris were wonderfully quick in learning. Up to 1840 more Maoris could read, write, and work sums than Europeans, but all was taught them in Maori, and therefore in all their dealings they were thrown into the hands of a special class, from which cause had grown up some of the moßt objectionable features of the Native Department. He bore testimony to Sir D. McLean's efforts to promote education in English. This year he proposed to spend £11,500 only on Native schools, or £4OOO less than last year, and with this fifty village schools would be supported and_ others assisted. He would like if possible to increase the sum so as to have more schools and secure what was most desirable, a first-class lot of teachers. With regard to another social question, the Government felt it a duty to assist the efforts the Natives were now making to suppress intemperance. The best way of doing this would be to allow the Natives to regulate their own districts in this respect, and in this way he believed they would in time be able to shake off habits of excess. Already a decrease was visible, owing partly to reduction in Government expenditure amongst them, but also largely to the extension of Good Templarism. The Government should in every way assist in this movement. With regard to land purchase in the past a great error had been made in employing agents to purchase on commission. These agents looked more to quantity than quality, and in many cases purchases had been represented as closed when they were not. Troublesome people had actually been shut out from Crown grants, and children and improvident adults had been appealed to. Large sums had also been paid, not to the Natives at all, but on orders to storekeepers. Most unsatisfactory things had also taken place in regard to reserves, and the least possible result had indeed been obtained for a very large amount of money. The total amount of land acquired was about six million acres. This looked satisfactory, but on going below the surface he found things very different. Of the leasehold, not a single acre was in condition to be used. Two-thirds of the work had yet to be done with only one-fifth of the money to do it with. Only about £40,000 or £44,000 had been paid to Europeans for surveys and commission. At least a third of the freehold land would require further expenditure to acquire a valid title. More money would then be required to complete existing bargains. It was necessary to avoid a great loss by endeavoring to make as much as possible ofj these incompleted transactions, and legislation would be necessary in those cases where minors were concerned. It was proposed to give the Governor in Council power to appoint trustees. It was intended to at once close all outstanding transactions with purchase agents, to have no more purchasing on commission, but to employ proper responsible Government officers, and absolutely forbid anyone connected with the Native Department from purchasing an acre for himself. So soon as existing transactions were complete, the Government should go out of market as purchaser of Native land. Want of money was one cause for this, and every month Natives were becoming less willing to sell to the Government at a low price. The amount of money available was small, and they proposed to operate on this fund without reference to provincial distinctions, leaving the adjustment of accounts to next year. There were about thirty million acres of land in the North Island still open for purchase. He regretted the abolition of Crown preemptive rights in 1862, biit it was now too late to retrace steps in this direction. If the present Act was a failure, as was generally admitted, it was because the Native Land Court had become largely the servant of the Native Deportment, being used simply as a means for the Government acquiring landed estate in the North Island. It was, he thought, most essential that the Court should be entirely free from all Government interference. He reviewed the action of the late Government in regard tf the two Bills intrcducad this session. The Suspension Bill v/cild have been a most unjust one. The Government now intended to provide for minors in 'Orcwu Grcate, and"for a bettor- systsmof

iearing appeals from the Native Lands 'ourt. The appeals would be made in ccordance, however, with the existing law, fom one judge who heard the case to another vho had not. This was all that they proposed odo this session. If the bulk of the work of letermining the titles were done, as it should >e, by Native chiefs, the cost of the Native Oand Court could be greatly reduced. As 'ar as possible, individualisation of title 'hould be insisted on. This would greatly promote settlement. Something might also le done in giving and directing tho Natives in the disposal of their lands. If the Government did this fairly, he believed the Natives would take advantage of it to a large extent. Where land was not suitable for small settlers he thought it would be desirable to promote settlement then by large areas. Regarding the vexed question of Native representation, he could not agree with Mr Whitaker to abolish representation. This would be unjust while a large portion of the Natives could not acquire the franchise in the same manner, by Crown grants and individual titles, as Europeans could. He would propose to increase special representation to seven members, and if after a few years a change took place in the nature of the tenure, special representation could be abolished, and Native representatives be elected in the ordinary manner. Until the Natives talked English, were more mixed with Europeans, and better understood our laws and customs, a Native Department would be necessary, but some years the Department had been a barrier to settlement, and had made work as an excuse for its existence. He bore testimony, however, to the services and zeal of Under-Secretary Clarke and the officer in charge of Native schools. It was in its ramifications through the country that the department was dangerous. He hoped before next session to reduce it from a powerful organization to a mere skeleton, but a useful one. He had often himself felt what it was to be insulted by a Native official, and he believed the large reduction of the department would bring the two races closer to each other, and make them more harmonious. With reference to the King question, he maintained the genuine character of the recent telegrams from the King country. They were from Government officers, entirely unsolicited and unsought. They had also telegrams from the King and from Manuhiai, and it was hoped the meeting to which they invited Sir George Grey would be attended by most beneficial results. Sir George Grey had fought the Natives, no doubt, but that very fact raised him in the estimation of the Natives, and was a recommendation instead of a drawback. If the " A.ukati" were abolished, he thought tho credit of the colony would be greatly enhanced. He did not suppose a single interview would settle the difficulty. The Natives might ask what in fairness to the colony the Government could not grant, but the Natives were anxious for the settlement of questions at issue, and had sought the interview, and he believed the results would be satisfactory. He hoped ere very long so see some leading Waikato or Ngatimaniapoto chief a member of that House. He recalled the time when the Native question was the greatest one in the colony, but since that time the proportions between the two races had been reversed. We then professed a desire to raise the Native people to an equality with ourselves. We were now strong enough to disregard and repudiate all the promises then made, but he mistook the temper of the House and country if this very strength would not be an additional reason for pursuing and aim (?). He looked hopefully forward to the time when both races would really be one people. As the Bill was not printed he moved the postponement of the second reading. The House then proceeded to other business.

The following are the precise figures used by Mr Sheehan in his statement:—Total Native population, North Island, 43,408; South Island, 2608. The amounts spent during the ten years ending 30th June, 1871, in suppressing Native disturbances was—Erom revenue, £781,405 6s 9d ; loan, £2,375,885 13s 3d. Total, £3,157,291. The amount spent on roads in the North Island to 30th June last was—from defence loan, £10,750; from immigration and public works loans, £471,760. During the seven years ending 30th June last £59,197 19s Id was spent on Native schools ; total of village schools fifty, and other schools eleven, to be maintained this year. Last year £15,392 had been spent on schools and buildings. For the present year £11,571 was proposed to be expended. £3500 more would be required to meet engagements, and to provide schools where there was none now. Land purchases in the North Island negotiated—for freehold 4,613,329 acres, leasehold 1,540,081 acres. Of this only 1,987,402 acres of freehold were completed, and none of leasehold. On completed transactions £280,052 was expended ; £148921 on incomplete transactions ; and £102,074 in general expenses. The balance unexpended on Ist July last was £168,951. In Auckland, of the £350,000 apportioned to that district only £30,894 remained unexpended, and £52,400 was required for the current year. In Taranaki, Wellington, and Hawke's Bay, however, the available balances were in excess of the sums required this year, being as follows : Wellington, unexpended £69,520, required £21,425 ; Hawke's Bay, unexpended £40,326, required £7725; Taranaki, unexpended £28,230, required £IO,OOO. _.