THE DOMAINS BILL.

Globe, Volume VIII, Issue 1018, 29 September 1877, Page 3

THE DOMAINS BILL.

PUBLIC MEETING. A public meeting, convened by his Worship the Mayor, in compliance with a resolution of the City Council, to consider the Domains Bill and District Railways Bill now before the House, was held last night in the Oddfellows' Hall.

His Worship the Mayor occupied the chair. In opening the business of the meeting, his Worship said that he had recently received a copy of the Canterbury Public Domains Act Amendment Act, and having brought it before the Council at their last meeting, they thought it advisable to call a public meeting at as early a date as possible. He had therefore called the one that evening. There was also a clause in the District Railways Act empowering the County Council to run lines through the city, which it was thought should be also considered. He might say he had received a letter from the Thames Borough Council, who intended to introduce a Bill empowering Borough Councils equally with County Councils on this matter. They would first consider the Domains Bill, and he would now call upon Mr Wynn Williams to move the first resolution.

Mr Wynn Williams said that when he read the Bill he was of opinion that it was one that should not pass. [Cheers.] He held his opinion, and without wishing to thrust it down any one's throat, he was yet prepared to stand up for it. [Cheers.] It must be recollected that though perhaps they did not feel the want of these parks now, those who came after them would experience it. They should therefore be very careful as to the way in which they were dealt with by those having their management. [Cheers.] They would recollect that some time back an agitation against the taking of a part of the park was unsuccessful. _ At that time, however, the same considerations did not affect the question that did now. The question of the cricket clubs had cropped up in this, and though he was greatly in favor of cricket, and was himself a president of a cricket club, he said that the public convenience should also be studied. [Hear, hear.] He was not averse to a small charge being made for admission to cricket grounds. They had one of the finest grounds in the colonies, and it cost a. great deal to keep it up. But they must recollect that this ground was so situate as perhaps to interfere in the future with the free use of the park by the public. But the Bill went further than the mere charging by cricket clubs when there was anything special. It placed in the hands of three gentlemen who were nominated as a Board the power to charge an admission not only to the park but to all the recreation grounds in the provincial district. When he saw this he immediately wrote to Mr Hall, who said that his idea was to give the public more advantages in regard to the use of the park, and he quite agreed with him—[hear, hear]—in his objections. Indeed, he knew that Mr Hall was always in favour of the people having the greatest possible use of the parks. If this Bill were passed, and power given to cricket clubs to charge, then other bodies would have an equal right to demand the same facilities. Why should not the Popular Entertainment Association have the right to hold their sports there, or the Foresters their fete ? Even a circus could not be refused. [Cheers.] Well, if they then allowed this, the park would be altogether cut up into enclosures, and the people would have no right in it at all. Already they had to deplore the alienation of a large portion of it for the College and Museum, and not only that, but he regarded it as a great mistake that the Hospital was placed in the most beautiful part of the park. They had also the Acclimatisation Society taking a part of the park, and presently they would find that when the public came to try to have the park opened up in order for rides or drives, they would find it shut up by these institutions, if they did not have these matters so arranged that they, did not interfere with the free and unrestricted use of the park by the public. [Hear, hear.] Now he had been accused of inconsistency in opposing this while he had voted for the Racecourse Bill, by which the C.J.C. were entitled to charge. But this was not so. The reserve was made exclusively for racing, and hence the non-racing part of the community had no interest in it, and there was also a clause in the lease by which the Governor could resume possession. But as regarded the park, it was another matter. This was the public property entirely, and the public had a perfect right to have reserved to them the free and unrestricted use of their own property. [Cheers.] Now there was one clause of the Bill which he desired to read to them. It was as follow .—« Any Domain Board may, by such resolution as aforesaid, authorise the payment of the proceeds of any such charge for admission to the promoters of such exhibition, cricket match, meeting for athletic sports, or other occasion, as to the Board shall seem fit." That was that the Domain Board could take the money at the gates and apply it to their own purposes if they thought fit. It seemed to him that the proper course in respect to this Bill would have been to have brought it forward some three or four months ago, so that the matter might be thoroughly discussed and the public opinion ascertained. [Hear, hear.] He felt sure, however, that if the resolution he had to propose was carried Mr Hall would withdraw the Bill. [Hear, hear,] The resolution was as follows : —" That no part of the Domains and Parks should be permanently set apart, or be so dealt with as to interfere with the free use of the same by the public. That such a Bill as that proposed should not become law, but that i the whole question should be postponed until next session. That a committee, to consist of thirteen, with power to add to their number, be appointed to consider (with a view to legislation) whether any scheme for utilising portions of the public parks by permitting charges for entrance to exhibitions or otherwise, can be so framed as to avoid the possibility of any encroachment being made upon the parks so as to interfere with the present or future use of the same by the public. The committee to consist of the following :—Six members of the City Council (to be appointed by the Council), Messrs S. P. Andrews, R. J. S. Harman, E. C. J. Stevens, W. Rolleston, A. R. Kirk, Wynn Williams, and Hon. John Hall." He did not think they had any reason t? complain of the constitution of that committee, as all the interests wore fairly represented on it. He thought that if the meeting, as representing the citizens of Chiistchurch, were willing to allow this committee to consider the position before next session the promoters of the Bill will have no reason to complain of it. Then had been ample time to consider the question in all its bearings, and it could come before the Assembly next session after having been well digested and the public opinion ascertained/ He begged to move the resolution..

Mr Thomson came forward to second the resolution. He was one who had concurred in the submission of this matter to the citizens. The whole pith of the position was summed up in a few words. It was intended to place a large power in the hands of an irresponsible body—irresponsible because nominated. He not a word to say"against the gentlemen composing this Board, but they might not always have such gentlemen on the Board. It therefore became necessary to see that every precaution was taken before such large powers were handed over to a non-elective Board. Another reason for his (Mr Thomson's) objection was that he did not approve of hasty legislation. That it was such was proved by Mr Hall's telegram to Mr Williams, that he concurred with his objections. At the same time he gave Mr Hall every credit for the best intentions. However, his opinion was that the Bill should bo withdrawn for this session, and that in the meanwhile it should be seen whether they could not frame a measure enabling a small charge to be made for witnessing cricket matches without interfering with the rights of the public. [Cheers.] He had much pleasure in seconding the resolution.

Mr Ollivier said he had come there that evening expecting to hear a violent attack upon the profligate Government for attempting to rob the people of Canterbury of their rights. But, to his astonishment, he had only heard a few wise sayings, a few platitudes falling from his dear old friend, the popular orator, Mr Williams. He then heard the resolution seconded in a powerful speech by a gentleman who bid fair to be the future Mayor of Christchurch. [Cheers and laughter.] But he was proud to say that he fully agreed with all that had fallen from his two friends who had preceded him. If they wished their sons to grow up manly and be drawn away from the larrikin element they must let them go forth to cricket — the most scientific game in the world. But where were they going to get their cricket. Latimer square was to be shut up, Cranmer square was to be shut up, and all the open spaces in Christchurch wei-e to be gobbled up by the City Council. [Cheers.] Where then were their sons to go? Why naturally to their own property—the Domain. [Cheers.] It was the property of Canterbury, not of the City of Christchurch. [Cheers.] But all that was desired was that they should be able to meet the expenses of introducing the English cricketers or the Australian Eleven. Well, he would ask them, when he looked at the thousands who crowded around the cricket field, was there one—save and except perhaps the Hon. Mr Robinson — who would object to pay his shilling ? [Cheers.] AVhat did the Bill now propose ? If the fourteen days was the bug-bear, let them take out the sting and let them determine what was to be done and what they wanted. They could do it that evening without troubling six members of the City Council and seven or eight other ratepayers to settle it for them. Mr Williams had proposed certain names to form the committee. Now the persons engaged in the concoction of this Bill were Messrs Rolleston, Stevens, Hall, Montgomery and Stafford, gentlemen who he contended were quite as much interested and as alive to the conservation of the public interests as anyone. What need was there for the fuss and bother of a public meeting to decide on this subject, and to instil into their minds suspicions. He felt that the gentlemen lie had mentioned were as jealous of their interests and privileges as he (Mr Ollivier) could be, and they knew that he was jealous to a degree of their interests. [Cheers.] He would never allow of a further invasion of the rights of the citizens. Therefore he had a resolution to propose which he thought would meet the views of all. The Cricket A ssociation had a vested right in a part of that park. He would ask them further did the public contribute anything to the support of cricket ? He said no. ["(Yes, yes."] Again he said'no, and he said no advisedly. The cricketers had every year to put their hands into their pockets to provide amusement for the public. [Hear, hear, and a Voice : " It's the public ground."] Yes, that was true, but they did not contribute anything or scarcely anything towards the support of cricket. The resolution he had to propose as an amendment w r as as follows : —" That while this meeting would oppose the passing of any measure which directly or indirectly might tend to the establishment or the recognition of any right in any association of cricketers or other public body to the exclusive use of any public domain, gardens, or recreation ground which may be temporarily used or occupied by them, it would not object to the passing of an Act by which Public Domains Boards may be authorised to permit any association of cricketers or other public body to make a charge for admission to such portion of such public domain, gardens, or recreation grounds as they may be temporarily using, provided such Act be limited in its "operations to a given term of years, that the number of days in any one year upon which such charge may be _ made be also limited, and that the imposition of such charge shall in no case operate to the exclusion of the public from the whole _ of any public domain, gardens, or recreation ground." They must recollect that in Timaru, Temuka, and other parts of the district, there were numbers of persons who wished to make these reserves into cricket grounds and public recreation grounds, and who were only waiting for power to enable them to get funds to render these reserves places of recreation. They were not going to lose their reserves. They were only asked to allow of a power being given to a body of men —who dare not use it to do violence to public rights —a power which would enable these reserves being made recreation gi'ounds for the public. [Cheers.] Mr Williams said he was delighted to find that his good old friend, Mr Ollivier, for once during his long career had put his foot into it. Listening to his old friend's speech he thought that he was supporting his (Mr Williams's) resolution. But then he went on to contend that the domains should be open to the public, and yet he was opposed to the resolution. What ho (Mr Williams) wanted was to have the domain open, so that Mr Ollivier was quite at one with him. B\;t his excellent old friend had also been guilty of perpetrating as great a piece of humbug as he (Mr Williams) had oyer h.sard or seen in print. He had pubJtic, with the exception oi ihe Hon. Mr Robinson, would willingly contribute their shillings; but he I hen went on to say that the public never contributed towards the support of cricket. [Mr Williams then, amidst loud laughter, proceeded to read the latter clause of his resolution, which was identical with the amendment proposed by Mr Ollivier.] Now the last part of the | resolution was inconsistent with the first, because it said tUa'fc a charge

should be made, and that excluded some one or more of the public. The amendment of Mr Ollivier had been suggested by Mr Harman, and appeared to him (Mr Williams) as a side road to get the public opinion in favor of the Bill. [Cheers and laughter.] Mr J. W. Treadwell moved the following resolution, which however was not seconded, and it accordingly lapsed:—" That the Domain Boards of New Zealand be abolished, and all their powers be vested in the respective boroughs, and that the Mayor and Council, as a deputation from this meeting, be appointed to confer with other boroughs, in order that a petition may be presented to the above effect to the Parliament."

Some conversational remarks having been made by several speakers, Mr Ollivier's amendment was then put, and lost, only a few voting for it.

Mr Williams's resolution was then put and carried almost unanimously. Mr Pratt, cordially agreeing with the resolutions just passed, thought it necessary that a more emphatic condemnation of the proposed Bill should go forth as the unanimous expression of the opinion of the meeting, to ensure its not being pressed through the House this session. They were justly proud of the special advantages they enjoyed in the possession of their park and domain, and in proportion to those advantages should be their jealous watchfulness of any attempt to interfere with their privileges. The public owed a debt of gratitude to the gentlemen constituting the Domain Board for their indefatigable exertions, extending over a large number of years, of the results of which care and attention they were now in the quiet enjoyment. But although they had hitherto exercised their power to the entire satisfaction and advantage of the general public, he thought the meeting would agree with him that it would be unwise to vest in perpetuity in a Board so constituted the powers proposed in the Act under consideration. As the Public Domains Amendment Act had been introduced in the Legislative Council, he thought to dally with it in the hope of amending it would be dangerous, and would therefore prefer to see it withdrawn, that time might be given for framing a measure fenced in limitations ; or, what would be still more desirable for attaining the object sought, to endeavor to obtain the alteration of the constitution of the Board from a purely nominative, to an elective or partially elective one. On these grounds he begged to move —"That this meeting disapproves of handing over to an irresponsible Board, the powers proposed in the Public Domains Amendment Act now before the House."

Mr S. P. Andrews seconded the resolution, and said that during his long residence in Christchurch he had noticed a disposition to take the Domains out of the control of the public, and this Bill was a culminating effort, and as such it should be entirely rejected. Speaking parenthetically, he presumed that the committee would before taking any definite action in the way of sending their recommendations before Parliament submit them to the public. The Bill as it stood now would virtually exclude the public from the reserves for fourteen days in the year. He spoke as one who had taken, and who still took, great interest in the advancement of public amusements as a whole, and the Bill w r as drawn up in the interest of one particular class, namely, cricketers. He remarked that during the AllEngland match five or six hundred pounds had been taken in silver as entrance money, and if the people had paid before they would do so again. Therefore there was no fear of the public not paying of their own free will ou such occasiors as were provided for in the Bill. The resolution was then put and carried unanimously.

THE RAILWAYS BILL. The meeting then proceeded to consider the question of the proposed District Railways Bill. Professor Bickerton said that the Bill was drawn up to enable railways to be constructed by companies, who would be guaranteed 7 per cent on the cost of their construction. The ratepayers of the district where the railways were made would have to pay 5 per cent, and 2 per cent would be charged to the Consolidated Fund. But the feature of the Bill to which he wished particularly to direct their attention was that it provided for County Councils voting for or vetoing its being brought into operation, but not a word was said about Borough Councils. True, if one-half of the total number of ratepayers voted against the Bill being brought within any locality, it would stop. But they all knew how difficult it was to obtain votes in such matters, and so that plausible provision signified little in reality. A provision to give Borough Councils equal power with County Councils might have been accidentally omitted, but municipalities were treated rather slightingly, and were not of sufficient importance to be trusted even with the management of reserves and domains! Still, if the Council [proposed to sell any of the city's reserves the ratepayers could at once veto such a proceeding, but they could not prevent a needy Grovernment from selling such public properties, and what had been done by the Victorian Governmentmight yet be done by the New Zealand. He begged to propose—- " That the proposed District Railway Bill give County Councils power to accept the construction of, or to veto railways without any reference to, or sanction from Borough Councils. That Boroughs will in all probability have to pay the rate, the greater part of the interest required to be guaranteed. That the position of depots, stations, &c, are of equal or greater importance to boroughs than to counties. That under these circumstances Borough and County Councils should have equal powers, and should unitedly form the Council to whom applications should bo made by railway companies. That a clause be inserted in the Municipal Corporations Act any local authority but the City Council exercising control or authority within the limits of the city, with the exception of the Drainage Board for drainage purposes only." Mr E. BT. Banks seconded the resolution, and said the power to ov- withheld it from thp ratepayers in the person of their j representatives., the Borough Councils. The | Government passed too many Bills in a ! hurried manner, and the public should do I their best to prevent haste in this case. The fact that there was only one copy of the Bill in Christchurch showed an unfairness on the part of the Government in trying to carry the measure without giving the public time to consider it. The resolution was carried unanimously. It was resolved, on the motion of Mr H. Thomson—" That the Mayor should forward copies of the resolutions passed that evening to the Govei-nment." The proceedings then closed with the usual Courtesy to the cttairmjaai.