RAILWAY REGULATIONS AND TARIFF.

Globe, Volume VIII, Issue 950, 11 July 1877, Page 3

RAILWAY REGULATIONS AND TARIFF.

* PUBLIC MEETING AT CHRISTCHURCH.

Pursuant to advertisement a public meeting of timber, grain, coal merchants, and importers was held at Mr Charles Clark's rooms, Hereford street, at two o'clock yesterday afternoon, "to take into consideration the present exceedingly objectionable railway regulations and tariff." There was a very large and influential attendance. On the motion of Mr A. Duncan, seconded by Mr Pavitt, the chair was taken by Mr E. C. J. Stevens, M.H.E. The Chairman, after reading the advertisement calling the meeting, said he apprehended that some one present who took a strong view in accordance with the terms of the advertisement, would probably ead the proceedings by making comments upon the tariff which they had met together to consider. Witli these few remarks, he would like to ask some gentleman to open the proceedings by saying what he wished to say on the subject. Mr John Inglis said that he was one of the aggrieved parties, and his name in one form or another appeared in the advertisement. It seemed to him that there was very little doubt on the minds of the public that the tariff, as published, was an extremely objectionable one. He did not propose to go into the question of the main part of the tariff, but merely to address himself to one or two particulars. In looking over the general tariff, it seemed to him that there were a great many objections to be taken to it. In some instances, he dare say, the charges were very much increased, while in other cases they were very much less. However, as he looked at it, it would take a greater length of time than they were disposed to give, and a very much longer time than he had been able to give to it, to go over the new tariff from beginning to end in order to show its inconsistencies, and want of principle, he might say, on which it had been based. That, perhaps, had been sufficiently exposed in the various articles that had appeared in the newspapers. At the same time, he did not think they shoidd lose sight of the fact that if they did not discuss it now, still there were numerous grave objections to the tariff. The Chamber of Commerce intended to deal with the question in general, and he thought they might safely leave the general question to the Chamber of Commerce. He had been told that in the case of the grain merchants they had a very great grievance in one particular item, and that the course they adopted was to memorialise the Government with a view to getting that grievance removed. He had been told that that particular item was a mistake. He thought the general public would be inclined to say that it was all a mistake. If the Government was memorialised on one point, they would be perfectly justified in addressing the Government in other cases. They were very apt to take those immediately interested, and see how the tariff would work in their particular case. The advertisement referred especially to timber merchants and others who had some special grievance to complain of, and he thought they had some grievance; but perhaps the more convenient way would be to refer to one or two items as showing the difference between the old tariff and the new in several instances. In some cases, it would appear as if the tariff was considerably less, but that as far as the timber merchants were concerned they object to being deprived of facilities for carrying on the trade which they had hitherto enjoyed In the case of timber, under the old tariff, the Government carted and loaded and unloaded the timber and put it down in the yards, stacked it and gave specifications for Is 8d per 100 ft. Under the new tariff they did not propose to stack the timber, or to give facilities for its being stored for any time. They did not purpose to give specifications, but taking these items out, their charge appeared to be (that is, supposing the merchant does not load or unload) Is l|d, against Is 8d under the old tariff; but then the stacking and specifications were left out. The Government did not propose to give any facilities whatever to any one, even for a temporary period, to stark the timber. Mr Laurie—Will you allow me to correct your figures. It is Is 4d, I think.

| Mr Inglis said he read it 3£d. Sawn timber was id per 100 ft. per mile from Lyttelton to Christchurch, that was seven miles, which made it 3|-d; but of course they were not talking about a single 100 ft., but of a consignment of 60,000 ft. or so. He did not think that he was wrong in what he had stated. He would go on to wool. Under the old tariff woo! was carried at Is lid, under the new at Is 6d. With regard to the carriage of sheep —for a single floor truck taken twenty miles the charge was 10s in the old tariff, and 17s 6d in the new. A double floor truck was not contemplated under the old tariff, but under the new tariff it would be 255. Grain under the old tariff was 7s, under the new tariff 5s lljd, that was presuming all the labor was done at each end. Tea would be carried at 6s Id, as against Bs. Coal would be about the same, 7s 6d under the old tariff, and 7s under the new. Salt was 8s under the old, and 6s 3d under the new. He was merely taking these one or two items to point out that though the rates were lowered in some cases, in others they were very much increased ; and in regard to timber especially. Of course he would be met by some who no doubt thought that their particular way of dealing with timber ought to be protected. He did not know whether this was a protectionist community. He was not a protectionist, and in considering any question of this kind, he wished to take as broad a view as it was possible to take of it. He looked on it in this light—that they had certain trades in the colony, no matter what they were, and they ought all to have a fair field and not be subject to undue restrictions in carrying on their trade. [Hear, hear.] If he were a timber merchant, and was in the habit of taking the timber into his own yard, and selling it out in small quantities, he might say why should another not be put in the same position as lie was, and be obliged to take away his timber from the railway. At the same time, was it not for the general interest of the community that no restrictions should be put on general trade ? [Hear, hear.] If they were to act upon that principle [and say that those who chose to carry on their business in that particular way should not have any facilities for carrying it on, he thought it would be prejudicial to the country. [Hear, hear.] If it suited the mills to send down timber on consignments, and have it sold straight away, they ought to have facilities for doing so, and if facilities could be given by the railway, they ought to have them. As a timber merchant, he did not know that he would be prejudiced, except in the way of getting more trouble than before. If the merchants had to pay more, eventually the public would be obliged to pay that something more, because the supply could not continue beyond a certain rate if the charges were increased and the merchants obliged to take delivery at once. If there were additional charges made to the merchant, the public would eventually have to pay that increase. If there were a reduction in the charges, eventually the public would have the benefit of that reduction by the course proposed. He spoke rather as an independent party with regard to timber ; he had a yard of his own, and had not to take it somewhere else, as some others had to do. The regulation, therefore, would not make any difference to him. He sought, as they all did, for the general interests of the country, and not for the mercantile interest only. No doubt some others would speak on the timber question. Speaking generally, with regard to the sheep question, he only knew from clients of: his own that the result would be (in consequence of raising the tariff for carrying sheep) that, instead of this business being done by the railway, it would have to be done by driving the sheep, which was no advantage to the eating community at any rate, and would eventually add a great deal more cost to the community. Witli regard to the wool, he noticed for the first time that day that it would be carried cheaper than hitherto, and he congratulated his olients on the advantage. But that was not the way in Avhich to look at the question. In the Provincial Council it was not considered what class they could benefit, but what would be fair to the whole community. Those engaged in the coal trade had succeeded in overcoming a great grievance in not getting their coal weighed. This they did by making a fair representation to the Government, and he saw no reason why they should not also address the Grovernment on other matters. When the general tariff question came up he thought it would be very easy to show the Government what a cumbrous machinery they had put in motion to pi oduee very little. In some cases there would be a falling off of revenue, but the vexatious character of the tariff is the most prominent feature of it. With regard to timber, they have passed a regulation that the cargoes shall be carried on mill specifications. Of course it might be very unfortunate for those who import timber to pay for mill specifications, when it was well-known that these specifications were very seldom right. Very much more was charged for in the bill of lading than what was delivered. It was so in his experience. It might be advanced that it was the business of people at the mill to see that they sent correct specifications ; but he should like to know on what principle the Government could pass a law or regulation arbitrarily that people were to be charged for whatever the bill of lading said. The thing appeared to him to be monstrous, that the consignee should have to pay for it. If the mill specifications were always right, no one would quarrel about the matter, but mill specifications were almost always wrong. The Government had stepped in and acted as a middle party. Why they should do away with regulations that worked pretty well he really did not understand, except it was that they had got so confused with all the work they had to do that they were glad to get rid of it in any fashion. j [Hear, hear.] The railway authorities had got iu such a muddle now that they did not know how to turn themselves. That, he supposed, was owing to the inconsistency of the tariff. It was perfectly plain that they charged more in some cases and less in others, but the whole thing was a grave mistake and showed a want of capacity on the part of those who had brought this matter before the public; [Hear, hear.] It had been suggested that he should move a resolution to this effect: —" That a committee be appointed to draw up a petition for the signature of those interested, to the Minister of Public Works, showing the hardship and inconvenience of the present; regulations to the mercantile community." He had been informed that the rate for stock had been altered, but to what extent he was not prepared to say. Mr J. B. Way seconded the motion.

Mr J. T. Brown said he thought it was only fair that the meeting should know that the 6d charged for loading and unloading

need not bo paid, unless the consignee wished it; that is, lie might load and unload himself. That could be done for half the money. He believed it was the opinion of more than half the gentlemen engaged in the timber business, that the present arrangement was better than the old one. [Hear, hear.] Tn the past they had been charged for doing certain work that they did not wish to be done. The timber merchants at a great expense maintained business premises, and a staff of clerks and workmen, and they would prefer receiving their timber at once from the railway, simply using the railway as carriers [Hear, hear.] By doing this a considerable amount would be saved. If it were argued that others should be considered, then by all means let there be two rates, and let it be optional to the consignee to say which of the two he will accept. [Hear, hear.] At the present rate he could receive timber and sell it cheaper than at the old rates.

Mr Way—lt was optional befoi*e whether to stack it or not. Mr Brown —I don't think so. Mr Way—l beg your pardon, but I think it was.

Mr C. Turner—lt was not. Mr Brown is perfectly right. Mr Brown —Before, wo could not possibly receive a stack of timber without paying Is Bd. (Hear, hear.) Mr Thomas Pavitt said he thought it was unreasonable to expect the Grovernment at all times to allow the timber merchants room for any length of time. They all knew that the ground at the disposal of the Government was limited; and he was sure that if the timber merchants acted up to their full strength, they could get their material away as fast as it came through. He was perfectly sure that the present tariff was favorable to the limber merchants. If the Government could appoint some independent person in Lyttelton to measure timber as it came over the ship, so much the better. Therefore any difficulty about measurement could be got, over. He was perfectly satisfied to take his timber out of the trucks if it were measured by an independent person employed by the Government in Lyttelton for that purpose. Mr Jebson, sen.—l should like to ask if this meeting is exclusively for the merchants and dealers in the various articles about Christchurch. [Cries of "No, no."] The Chairman replied in the negative.

Mr Jebson said the now tariff was absolutely prohibitive to all persons engaged in producing coal in Canterbury. He should not like to advocate anything that was invidious or which he was particularly interested in. This question must be put on a broad basis; but as long as the Government conducted business with those persons for 2| years on their own terms, he thought it was very hard that the Government should now arbitrarily step in without any rhyme or reason and absolutely prohibit those pei'sons who had established a business from carrying on that business any further. They would see by looking at the tariff that for coal conveyed there was no minimum. It must be a truck, and that truck was to be lOd per mile, and a footnote at the bottom absolutely removed the option of a person paying for two tons at lOd per mile. It must be taken into the 13 class, and 5d per ton per mile charged, with an additional 2s 6d terminal charge. Before, it was 2d per mile, with a terminal charge of 2s ; now, it was 5d per mile, with 2s 6d terminal charge. To send a ton of coal to Ashburton now would cost 255, and see what it would be to Timaru ! It was prohibitory, even to Kolleston. Now this tariff was in operation, and there was no redress whatever to be had. He had applied with the distinct understanding that what correspondence took place should be open to public use, but he had not received a reply to a communication he sent in, and might not get an answer until next ye;ir. Therefore there was a very large number of people who would be absolutely deprived of their usual means of getting their fuel, and those people who had established and "cultivated that business were absolutely prohibited from carrying it on. The Government were accommodating a large number of persons on their own terms, and without a moment's notice discontinued that accommodation. Besides, in carrying grain and root crops there was a minimum of two tons. Coal had no minimum at all, but 5d in the B class per ton per mile, with a terminal charge of 2s 6d. The tariff had been compiled irrespective of any consideration of the parties most interested. [Hear, hear.] This item of Jcoal, and many other items, seriously affected the outlying districts from Christchurch. The additions amounted to from about 15 to 300 per cent, on very many articles ; that was the margin. If the tariff were carefully gone through, it amounted, in his opinion, to a prohibitory tax on some things,andon a very many other things to a very arbitrary mode of dealing, because there was no redress. Until they had another railway running side by side with the Government lines, they would be subject to these sudden changes and imposition of charges against which they had no redress. [Hear, hear.] He would support the resolution, but the personnel of the committee should, in his opinion, include some gentlemen representing the outlying districts, and signatures to the petition should be obtained from the country as well as the town. [Hear, hear.] Mr Harley said it appeared to him that in the resolution prominence was given to timber, coal, and grain. It seemed that the tariff had been reduced with respect to these articles, and he did not think therefore that a satisfactory petition could be sent to Wellington on those points. He thought it would be better to make the petition general in its character, and one which would more fully carry out the wishes of the meeting. He would therefore move as an amendment that the words, " and particularly to the stock, timber, and coal merchants," be struck out.

Mr Saunders seconded the amendment. Mr L. E. Nathan begged to support the amendment. The present tariff inflicted a great injustice with regard to the importation of goods. He agreed with Mr Harley that if representations from a meeting like this confined themselves to actual grievances they were likely to have far greater weight than if they were addressed to particular instances, where perhaps they might fail in supporting their argument. [Hear, hear.] While upon the subject of the present railway regulations, lie could not help saying that _ he thought the regulation imposing upon importers the necessity for taking the ship's bill of lading or measurement on goods coming seaward was also a great injustice. He did nol see why the G-ovcrmncmt should make such a distinction between Lyttelton and Christchurch and Dunedin and Port Chalmers. H seemed to him that it was sought to impose additional burthens on this district to make up deficiencies that might arise in consequence ox the shortcomings of other lines of railway,

which at the time of their projection were known as not being at all likely to pay. [Hear, hear.]

Mr W. Day supported the amendment, because he desired to see whatever action they took with regard to the tariff made more general. There was a great deal to be found fault with in the new tariff and regulations, and the whole matter should be dealt with. It would be well, too, if the sub-committee were to take into their consideration a matt cr which had been represented to the Minister for Public Works and to Mr Lawson. The importers in Christchurch had no remedy at present for trifling claims. The Hon. Mr Richardson informed him that the Public Works Act provided that in case of any claim for loss or damage, the same should be instituted by law against the Minister for the time being. If importers had a claim of £5, £ls or £2O, against some person in the railway, the railway simply ignored and repudiated them, and finally referred them to the Minister at Wellington. For the sake of £5 or £lO an importer would hardly be inclined to incur the expense, trouble, and loss of time in going to Wellington. If they had an opportunity of bringing these claims forward in the Resident Magistrate's Court it would be a good thing. [Hear, hear.] Mr Inglis said he could not accept the amendment. If the meeting had been called with the intention of going to the whole question he should have no objection to it whatever. The Chamber of Commerce intended to deal with the whole question. The intention of this meeting, as lie understood it generally, was to address itself to one or two particular points that pressed immediately. [" No, no."] That was the understanding on which he came there. He was hardly prepared to go into the whole question as fully as he should like to. He was quite in accord with those who wished the whole question to be considered ; but tin's should be postponed until another time. With reference to the remarks that had fallen from Mr Pavitt, all he wis!led to say was that it was the duty of the Government to afford all the facilities they could for carrying on the trade of the country, and all he asked the Government to do was to clmrge what was right and fair. [Hear, hear.] Mr Cuff thought they were rather premature with this meeting. He objected to the thing being done by patchwork. As a whole, he thought they hardly had time to test the new tariff, as this was only the tenth day of its operation. Mr C. W. Turner said he thought that shipowners and masters must be protected. At the present moment no captain could get a proper receipt for his cargo or see it weighed. The weighbridge could not be relied on. It had been a standing grievance with him that lie had never been able to get his freight paid for by mill specifications. Consignees at thi send say, " No, we will wait for specifications from the railway station." He thought the present tariff was a step in the right direction. So far as the charges were concerned, he had found that on coals they were less that day than they had ever been yet in Canterbury. The importer, if he chose, cordd load his coal in Lyttelton and discharge in Christchurch, and could accomplish that at 5s 6d per ton as against 7s 6d, which was charged up to the Ist instant. He imagined that the grievance referred to by Mr Jebson would at once be remedied. Under the present arrangement, several importers had found that they could easily take discharge of timber, bring it up from Lyttelton and cart it to their yards at considerably less expense than hitherto. The present tariff, as far as coal and timber is concerned, is an advantage, and between Lyttelton and Christchurch it was decidedly an improvement. When it came to the long distances, it would materially interfere with the trade of the place. [Hear, hear.] He thought it would be altogether premature to express an opinion that day or to appoint a committee as to three or four items. On the motion of Mr Jebson, seconded by Mr Hancock, the meeting adjourned for a fortnight.