GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume IV, Issue 421, 18 October 1875, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Electric Telegraph.]

From a Correspondent of the Press

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, October 15. The House resumed at 7.30. immigrants’ land act.

Hon Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the Immigrants’ Land Act Amendment Bill, and said several cases of hardship had occurred under the Immigrant Act. Persons did not strictly comply with the letter of the conditions to be observed before leaving the old country ; and although the spirit of the Act might have been complied with, he was powerless to sell land. This Act proposed to enable the issue of an Order in Council rectifying errors where the Governor in Council is satisfied that the immigrant really intended to fulfil all the conditions of the Act. IN COMMITTEE. The Immigrants Land Bill and the Immigration and Public Works Act Amendment Bill were considered in committee, reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. PROVINCIAL APPROPRIATION EXTENSION. Hon Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the Provincial Appropriation Extension Bill. There was no desire on the part of the General Government to interfere with the Superintendents more than was absolutely necessary under the Abolition of the Provinces Act, and if the consolidated revenue was sufficient to meet the charges which would fall upon it in respect of this Act, debentures would not be issued. The Bill passed through all its stsges. APPROPRIATION BILL.

On the order of the day being called, Mr Fitzhbbbbet asked when the Appropriation Bill would be brought down. Hon Major Atkinson said probably on Monday or Tuesday. Mr Fitzhebbekt hoped the House would accept the opportunity of discussing the finances of the colony. Hon Major Atkinson sincerely trusted that such a debate would take place, and that the finance of the colony would be thoroughly discussed,

BILL PASSED. The Wellington Hospital Loan Act, 1875, Amendment Bill passed through all its stages. IMMIGRATION STATEMENT. Hon Major Atkinson, on the House resolving itself into committee of supply, took the opportunity of making a statement upon the general position of immigration. It had been the cause of considerable regret that the statement on so important a subject should have been dealt with at so late a period of the session, but he had found it impossible, owing to the press of business, to take an earlier opportunity of placing the matter before the House. The total number of immigrants who had arrived in the colony under the Immigration and Public Works scheme up to the present time was 61,000 ; in 1872 700 arrived ; in 1873, 16,801 ; in 1874, 17,500 ; in 1875, 13,000 ; and during the last three months 6000. They had been distributed as follows :—Auckland, 8700 ; Taranaki, 1400; Hawke’s Bay, 4800; Wellington, 9300; Marlborough, 1086; Nelson, 1200; Westland, 600 ; Canterbury, 16,000 ; Otago, 18,000. Of these, 19,700 were married people, 13,900 single men, 9600 single women, and 17,000 children. The general plan which had been followed was either to select immigrants nominated, or to give free passages to persons selected in England. The persons who had come out under the latter arrangement were married men under 45 years, single men under 40 years, single women u;;n r 45 years, and children, so long as there were not more than three in a family. In the event of their being more than three children in a single family, payment for the difference had been taken in promissory notes, but promissory notes on account of these, and a system of assisted passages before free immigration was introduced, had not been at all a satisfactory arrangement for the colony, [Hear, hear.] There had been misapprehension created a few months ago by a report that Government were importing immigrants for the benefit of the other colonies. It had been said that a large number of people was being brought into the colony simply to leave it for the neighbouring colonies; but the fact was that ever since the immigration and public works scheme had been fairly initiated, the colony had gained very considerably not only by immigration but from the Australian colonies, and from other parts. In addition to the number of immigrants received from England, there was a balance of arrivals over departures last year of 2570, and there had been additions to this during the last few months ;*and up to August, 1875, there was a total balance in favor of the colony of 2695. He thought the House might rest assured that the inducements New Zealand holds out to immigrants were clearly recognised, and it was a cause for rejoicing to think that a large number of people were being attracted from neighboring colonies and America. 1 Hear, hear.] The nationalities of the immigrants were—English, 34,000 ; Irish, 11,000 ; Scotch, 9000 ; foreigners from different countries, 5400. He had had a statement prepared showing as nearly as possible the trades and callings of the immigrants. but it was not a very reliable one, and he should, instead of troubling the House by reading it, merely place it upon the table. The reason why it was not reliable was, that there could be no doubt at all that large numbers of persons came out describing themselves tradesmen, while they actually had no trade whatever. Thus clerks came out as agricultural laborers and so on—a fact fcbat to a certain extent showed a want of proper examination on the part of the agents at home. But upon the whole he thought there was every reason to be thoroughly satisfied with the immigrants physically and morally. [Hear, hear.] He had taken some little pains to look into the matter, because there had been wonderful stories abroad of the bad character of some of those whom Government had introduced into the colony. It was said they were fit for nothing but to live upon charity ; but from what he had been able to learn by enquiry and personal observation, he did not think the statements justified by facts. A return which he had had prepared showed the total number of immigrants who had been committed for various crimes up to the 30th August of this year, and from that it appeared that out of 60,000 who had been introduced into the colony, there had been only 489 committals. Of these, 156 were for drunkenness, 41 for petty offences, and 91 unspecified, and these no doubt were trifling offences, or they would have been specified, so that nearly 300 committals were for really trifling offences. And as for drunkenness, it was reasonable to expect immigrants arriving after long voyage would indulge a little ; therefore there was evidence of the existence of an exceedingly satisfactory state of morality amongst the immigrants brought out. Then it had been said they were bringing out lunatics. He had seen a statement in one of the papers finding great fault with the Government for bringing out lunatics, and the writer went on to say that of the lunatics who had been committed to the asylum in question, 50 per cent, were Government immigrants. He (the Minister for Immigration) had made enquiries into the matter, aud found the’ total number of persons who had been confined in the asylum, from immigrants, was two. The total number in lunatic asylums, out of 60/00, was forty-seven, and of these twenty had been discharged, so that the real number was twenty-seven out of 60,000. That also shewed care in selection, for undoubtedly almost that number would have been affected by tedious voyages and other causes. There was one point with regard to the introduction of immigrants which was not satisfactory, aud that was the death-rate on board the ships. He might say it had caused him a great deal of uneasiness, and Government had endeavored, not only to find out the cause but to remedy it, and render the voyages really healthy. They knew this death-rate had not been so large in former years. Even a single death caused surprise, and he was sorry to say the death-rate had been so high, particularly in children; but Government had taken steps which they hoped would result in its being consid(rably diminished, though he confessed that he had not yet been satisfied as to the real cause of the deaths. The total number of deaths had been 1244. Of these, infants under one year of age, numbered 502 ; children between one and three years, 445; between three and five, 100; between five and twelve, 47; twelve and upwards, 150. The total number of infants brought out was only 6670, butof these 500 had died, which was net satisfactory. The infant death-rate had been 18'8, which was an enormous proportion. 1 The average between one and twelve had

been 3’73, and the average rate of adults had had been 0.34. Of the immigrants who had arrived, 6830 had been nominated ; and in passing he might say he believed no doubt existed as to the fact that nominated immigrants vvere the best, and that the system was the best that could be adopted, and Government could not do better than to give every inducement to people to come out under that system. It was an immense a 1vantnge to new arrivals to have friends who could advise them and see to them after they had landed. No Government officer could possibly assist a stranger in the way relatives or friends could. Cut there did not seem to a proper appreciation of this system ; for although there had been no less than 42.300 nominated up to the piesent time, only 6800 had arrived. Cut he trusted the system would still continue, and he believed the Agent-General was thoroughly awake to the very great desirableness of encouraging that class of immigration. Referring to the cost of immigration, he calculated the expences of each immigrant, excluding cost of depots, and without making an asset of bills which they held, had been up to the present time just under £2l 10s for each adult, and £22 13s per head. As he had previously sratcd, the promissory notes taken from the immigrants for payment towards the pasages of children who exceeded the number allowed or might be over age or otherwise unsuitable, and also notes taken before free immigration had set in, had not proved profitable for the Government. The total amount of these notes taken was something like £57,766. The total amount collected, notwithstanding very great efforts had been made, was about £5,600, so there was outstanding about £51,000 on promissory notes. Government had therefore set their faces against receiving any more promissory notes, intending to take smaller amounts in cash, in order that arrangements might be completed by which there would be nothing hanging over immigrants on arrival, and enabling them to start free. He thought the House would agree with him that it must be very demoralising that a man should give a promissory note, and then, on coming out, finding that other men had got out free, repudiate the note, or feel that he had something hanging over him which other men had not. This must check his usefulness as a citizen, and injure his morality. As the hou gentlemen knew from the papers laid upon the table, the AgentGeneral, under instructions from Sir J. Vogel, intended to enter into a new contract for the introduction of immigrants, and the price per head had been enlarged. The contract, so far as they knew at the present time, had not been signed. In letters which had been received last month, it was stated the contract was awaiting the return of the Agent-General from the Continent, but letters received on Thursday informed the Government that the contract would be brought into operation in August, though it was not said the contract was actually signed. An advance of £1 11s per head, made in order to provide certain extra provisions on board immigrant vessels, was in accordance with the advice of the doctors. The House when it considered the arrangements of which he had given them an account, would see that it would be a great mistake to attempt to cut down prices. It was far better, and in the end far cheaper, to spend a pound or so more than was allowed by the original dietary scale, because by so doing immigrants were less likely to bo subject to fever and other diseases. Government had determined to cancel the Scandinavian immigration. The total number of Scandinavians which had arrived up to the present time was 3327. On the whole these were a satisfactory class of immigrants. As a matter of course there were a few that compared unfavorably with the whole, but even those were quite as good as could be reasonably expected. As the hon gentlemen would have seen from the papers laid on the table, considerable differences had arisen between the AgentGeneral in England and the Government, and the general condition of the Agent-Gene-ral’s office was not considered to be quite satisfactory. Government last year made the appointment of a gentleman from Canterbury as permanent Under >ccretary of that Department, and he went home about the same time as Sir J. Vogel. By the papers which he (Hon Major Atkinson) had laid upon the table, hon members would see that Sir J. Vogel gave directions as to rules to be observed in that office, and there was every reason to believe very great advantage would result from Sir J. Vogel’s visit to England, and from the arrangements made in the office of the Agent-General. Hou gentlemen were aware that when the scheme of immigration was first introduced, the Superintendents of the various provinces were invited to assist Government in the location of immigrants. Since then numbers of immigrants have been arriving, and tne local administration practically rested with the Superintendents, and since he (Hou Major Atkinson) had had the direction of the department, he must say that he had received every assistance from those gentlemen. But he must also say they had not devised any proper scheme for settling immigrants upon the land. Upon this matter his own view was quite clear. He thought, considering that they had undertaken the management of immigrants, it was clearly their duty (aud not that of the General Government) to provide for their distribu - tion aud settlement, but he did not agree with those gentlemen who considered that nothing had been done in this direction. He had had the pleasure of visiting Otago and Canterbury lately, and he must say that the efforts of the Superintendent of the latter had been very great indeed to get people settled about the country. Both by grants in aid aud personal attention efforts had also been made in Otago, but not to such a large extent as in Canterbury. He had no hesitation in saying that it would be the duty of the General Government to provide the means for settlements of immigrants when they assumed the government of the colony in the place of the I’roviucial Governments ; but as ho had said before, he altogether denied that there had been any laxity on the part of the Government up to the present time. There had been every desire both on the part of the General and Provincial Governments to do their utmost for those people who had been landed in large numbers in the colony, and he thought a very great deal had been done to settle those people. He had no doubt that men who had been one or years j n the colony were in a better position to take u P mnd. .and would do much more good now than if given land on the day they landed. He therefore looked forward with great confidence to the whole of those people being satisfactorily Mettled, and making real homes for them-

selves and their children. Some little attempt had been made in the way of special settlement. The settlement to which ‘he Nativ. Minister had alluded could not •»• taken i« any way to bo a Government set' l> , mi , nt. bn it would have been quite impossible for it to have succeeded had not Government given it all assistance in its power. That settle ment was fairly going, and he thought the General and Provincial Governments might take considerable credit for the success which attended it. There were at the present in the Fielding settlement over a thousand people settled. The Corporation introduced about 770. Therewas alsoasatisfacforyscttlement at Katikati. There the immigrants had only just arrived, but there were already 238 settled upon the land. Attempts also had been made in the two Scandinavian settlements of Hawke’s Bay and Wellington, and these were progressing satisfactorily, and as far as could be seen, the immigrants who took up land in these places would succeed in making permanent homes for themselves. A settlement had also been established by the Superintendent of Nelson at Karamea, and that was likely to prove a great success. The Superintendent of Westland also established a settlement at Jackson’s Bay, and from a representation made regarding it, high expectations were entertained of its success in that direction. The proposals for this year were, that 13,000 immigrants should be introduced. Hon members would see by the papers on the table that Sir J. Vogel ordered 25,000 this year, but it has been determined to have no more promissory notes, and return to the system of free passages, and therefore to provide for 13,000 only. The proportion of immigrants to each province was ; —Auckland, 2200 ; Taranaki, 600; Hawke’s Bay, 1000; Wellington, 2000 ; Marlborough, Nelson, and Westland, 400 each ; Dunedin, 2000 ; Invercargill, 1000 ; and Canterbury, 3000. By the latest advices the following had been despatched :—For Auckland, 1289£; for Taranaki, 324 J : for Hawke’s Bay, 440£ ; for Wellington, 1448 ; for Marlborough, Nelson, and Nelson, 55£ ; for Dunedin, 1777£ ; for Invercargill, 506£ ; and for Canterbury, 1249 J-. The effect of Sir J. Vogel’s having ordered so large a number as 25,000 was that the order subsequently given for 13,000 would have been executed at an early period during, the year, so that the last of the ships would be here either in September or October. The Government thought it a matter of great importance that a regular stream of immigration should be kept up, but they would avoid with great care introducing large numbers until they saw how those already introduced settled down. It was a matter for surprise that they had up to the present time succeeded in finding work for the large number of immigrants introduced. He had felt some little anxiety last winter, but it was a matter for great rejoicing that in no part of the country had there been found a lack of work. One hon'gentleman—he alluded to the member for Dunedin—wished to read a paper in the House the other night; with regard to the labour market of Dunedin. It was a resolution got up by men calling themselves the unemployed of Dunedin. When statements of that sort got abroad, it was desirable that the real state of affairs should be known. He read a telegram he had received from Dunedin as follows :—“ The so-called meeting of the unemployed was got up by Grant aud McLaren, well known demagogues in Dunedin. The majority of those at the meeting were not unemployed. They attended to have some fun. The meeting was so rowdy that the reporters left. The demand for labor can be judged by the following fact. The Waimea arrived on the 18th of September with 267 adults, the Invercargill on the 30th September with 337 adults. All are now employed except twenty-six and a half. The adults at the depot to-day will be at work on Monday. Signed, COLIN Allan, Immigration Officer.” They might judge from that what the statement as regards the labor market of Dunedin was worth. Nearly 600 people found employment in one month. But it was necessary to state that he should have to ask the committee for an advance of £50,000 over the sum proposed. The necessity for the advance arose in this way. An order, per telegraph, was sent home for 13,000, and Sir Julius Vogel read it 13,000 “ adults,” so that they would in reality receive 15,500, and hence the necessity for the additional sum required. | Loud cheers.] Sir G. Grey thought the statement of the treasurer showed that he had devoted great care and consideration to his subject. He (Sir George) thought that the class immigrants introduced had been satisfactory. The only regretable point about the immigration scheme was the death-rate, but he was glad to see that prompt measures were taken by the Government to meet this. He thought it a pity that Sir J. Vogel’s proposition to introduce 25,000 this year had not been carried out. He could only account for its reduction by Supposing that Government anticipated a crisis in finance, and endeavored to prepare for it. He yet, however, hoped Government would reconsider their decision. The part of the statement from which he disagreed, was that seemingly censuring the Provincial authorities. ) Hon Major Atkinson denied having thrown blame on the Provincial Governments.] Everyone had derived from the statement an impression similar to his. It was admitted that no more signal proof of the prosperity to be attained upon immigration had been afforded by any country than that afforded in New Zealand. He attributed that to the conduct of the settlement of the immigrants by the provinces, and predicted a failure if this were put into the hands of the Geneial Government. He concluded by hoping that the original plan of Sir J. Vogel would be carrierput, and 25,000 people introduced this year, Mr T. Kelly defended the conduct of settlement under the auspices of the Provincial Governments.

Mr M'Gillivray expressed a hope that the Government would take the settlement of the country into their earnest consideration.

Mr Fitzherbert would have liked to have had more explicit information with regard to that class of immigrants derived from countries other than Great Britain. That class of immigration, though unpopular at first, had now become admittedly a great success, aud he should regret if it were true that, after the expense had been gone to in order to found agencies for this immigration, Sir J. Vogel had given orders to have it stopped. Mr Pearce hoped that sufficient publicity woum pmon in the stoppage of immigration from countries other tfiau Great Britain, as he was aware that money had been sent home by Scandinavians and others, to enable their relatives to reach the nearest port of

shipment, whence they cen’.d come free to this country. It would be a great disappointment if these people were to come to a port and then find free immigration stopped. Mr Reeves supported the Government (dan of not bringing 25.000 immigrants t his year, but confining immigrants to 13,<>00 people. He had heard the statement of the Treasurer with much satisfaction, and thought that it proved the excellent administration of the department. Sir Cracropt Wilson warmly testified to the manner in which immigration had been carried on.

Mr Hunter hoped the statement would be printed, as it was most valuable. He had heard the statement with peculiar satisfaction, because it had cast no reflection on the Agent-General, but had testified to his having satisfactorily carried out his duties. It was better to keep to a judicious selection of immigrants, whose passages were paid, rather than revert to the wretched system of taking promissory notes. It was not to be wondered at that immigrants had been attracted from the Australian colonies, as the wages and circumstances of the laboring classes were much better here than there. He bore testimony to the excellent and creditable class of immigrants that had been introduced. Mr Macandrew asked if the Clyde line of ships for immigration from Clyde to Dunedin had been stopped, and the Albion Company had not been permitted to tender in the same way as the New Zealand Shipping Company and Shaw, Saville, and Co. Mr Carrington thought Iceland, since the recent earthquakes and eruptions, would be a favorable place from which to obtain immigrants.

Mr Rolleston was free to say no country had ever got such a selection of immigrants as had been sent out to this .colony during the past year. To stop immigration was one of the greatest mistakes we could possibly make.

Replying to various speakers, the Treasurer said Government recognised that it was of vital importance to continue immigration. They thought 15,000 souls for this year was ample, and their arrangements were such, that if it was thought desirable, they could either diminish or increase the number, but the great object was to keep up a constant stream of immigration. The question of large families was one of considerable difficulty. For himself, he always preferred seeing large families brought into the country, because in time children would become useful colonists. The question was under consideration, and fresh instructions would have been issued by last mail if he had not been busy otherwise. Government had no intention of stopping immigration from Scotland to Port Chalmers. HAND CLAIMS. Mr Carrington in a most amusing speech brought under the notice of the House the land claims of Sartoris, Downs, and others, under the authority of the Taranaki New Zealand Company’s Land Claims Act, 1872. The matter stood over till Monday, to enable the Government to consider whether it could advise the House to take any action this session, TELEGRAPHIC TARIFF. A member brought under the notice of the committee the unfair operation of the telegraphic tariff as affecting evening newspapers, and moved a resolution to the effect that a concession should be made in their favor, whereby these papers might send more than 200 words during the day-time at evening rates. The Commissioner of Telegraphs said the Government must oppose granting of any further concession. The motion was negatived on the voices. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. In Committee of Supply, the following votes were agreed to—Land purchases— General, £3550; Auckland, £50,000; Taranaki, £10,000; Wellington, £30,000; Hawke’s Bay, 10,000. On the item for water races, Mr O’ Conor took exception to the vote of £50,000 for Waimea, urging that it should be constructed by way of bonus to a private company, and that the construction of the water races by the Government was a great failure and a waste of public money. The discussion having lasted a couple of hours, the member for Buffer moved that the item should be struck out.

Ultimately the amendment was withdrawn, and the vote passed. On item, “ Central penal establishment, £10,000,” the Minister for Justice explained that it was intended to spend £20,000 on such an establishment, but Government were of opinion that to expend £IO,OOO would be sufficient this year. It was proposed to draft 200 long sentenced prisoners from the various gaols in .the colony to a central penal establishment. [An hon Member—- “ Where is it to be.” ] That had been a matter of consideration for some time. At one time it was thought that Resolution Island would have been a good place, but on inquiry it was found to be unsuitable for many reasons. Then, after careful inquiry, Government were inclined to think that Taranaki would be the best place, where prisoners could be employed in the construction of the harbor, the expense of carrying on which work would be borne by the land fund endowment of the province. He spoke at length upon the great necessity there was for relieving in some degree the prisons of the colony which, in their present crowded state, were really whited sepulchres. There would be an inspector of gaols; this officer would have charge of the central establishments, and it would also be his duty to visit the other prisons of the colony, with a view of seeing that an efficient system and classification was carried out in them.

Mr Sheehan thought Taranaki now resembled that happy condition spoken of by the poet, that Paradise and perdition lay close together. But the matter should be in abeyance until the Abolition of the Provinces question was settled, and with it, whether the colony should take charge of the gaols.

Mr WALES strongly urged that permanent buildings of concrete should be erected, and

Mr Swanson advocated the Island of Rangitoto, in Auckland Harbor, as a suitable site for the central gaol. The vote was ultimately agreed to, PUBLIC WORKS APPROPRIATION.

The Public Works Appropriation Bill was reported from committee and passed, and shortly before five in the morning the House adjourned.

The Legislative Council met on Saturday, and passed a large number of Bills. During the last two days such progress has been made with the business that it is now understood that the prorogation will take place on Wednesday, if the Bills can be printed in time.