GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 68, 19 August 1874, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(Per Anglo-Australian Press Telegraph

Ayency.) Wellington, August IS. In the Legislative Council to-day, The Lyttelton Gas Bill was read a third time and passed. In reply to the Hon Mr Holmes’ question whether the Government intended to appoint a Surveyor-General, The Hon the Colonial Secretary said

competent officer for each Island should be appointed to carry out the survey for which £SOOO had been voted, or whether the same would be entrusted to a Surveyor-General for the whole colony.

The second reading of the Forests Bill was moved by the Hon the Colonial Secretary.

The Hon Mr Waterhouse objected to the Council being called upon to sanction such an illusion, as that by this Bill the colonial debt might be wiped off. The Hon Mr Holmes thought the Bill highly desirable, and calculated to benefit the colony, irrespective of its mercantile success. The Hon Mr Mantell thought it was futile to attempt, on the part of the Government, to do what was beyond their functions, and could only be a success in providing billets for adherents. The Hon Captain Fraser was pleased with the Bill, and would have been more so had it come before them in its entirety. The Hon Mr Buckley supported the Bill, regretting it did not go far enough. The Hon Mr Menzies opposed the Bill, as he thought the forests could not be conserved by any action takm by the Government. The Hon Mr Robinson spoke in favor of the measure, knowing by experience the advantage of forest planting. The Hon Mr Bonar thought the objects of the Bill highly desirable, and gave it his cordial support. The Hon Mr Williams also supported the measure. The motion was carried on the voices, ar d the Bill read a second time. In the House of Representatives to-day. The debate on the abolition resolutions was resumed by Mr Macandrew. He did not know that he could say much that was new on the subject, but would not be justified being silent on so important a question. It wanted grave forethought and consideration, but be was much afraid it had not received that, or it would have been mentioned in his Excellency’s speech. Of all the reasons that were urged against the Government proposals, the strongest was that it aimed at the root of local self Government. Some would oppose it, on the ground that local Government to be successful, must be in the hands of persons accessible to the people, and experience showed that the departmental expenditure of the Government was assuming alarming magnitude as compared with their means and requirements. Others would oppose it because it would soon lead to the colony having a common purse, and next to the obliteration of the compact of 1856. For all these reasons he opposed it. He clearly saw that it led to unspeakable spoliation, Hon members must be verdant to suppose that any legislation could make the Middle Island land fund more now. No ; pass this resolution, and they must soon look for their landed revenue being swept into the maelstrom and vortex of colonial finance. Sooner than that, he would sacrifice all minor considerations. He and all his fellow members were in that House solely to protect their landed estate. The apple of their eye, it was to them, and if they did not resist this insidious attempt, they would be betraying the interests of their constitutents. He could not see how the Soothern members could allow themselves to be led like lambs to the slaughter, Why introduce the measure at all, when it was not demanded ; when in fact it really amounted to nipping in the bud, the dawning of the self-reliance of the North Island after the exhaustion of the war. They heard of the ferocious blue gum of the colony, but could they not liken the Colonial Government to the upas tree —that deadly and pestiferous plant—beneath whose shade life dies and death lives. That was its relation ' to the provinces. Why humiliate the North Island in this manner by educating them to sponge on their neighbors? Where were the petitions from the people in favor of this measure? If the North Island was becoming effete, it was because of the General Government alone. They asked them to build, and gave them no straw to make bricks ; and because they failed they said, “Then we will abolish you.” Had the hon gentleman come down with a measure to clip the wings of the General Government in the North Island, that would have been a statesmanlike proposal—but that would yet be demanded by the people in a voice of thunder. When the ten millions borrowed shall have been spent —leaving us as all knew they would leave to us only five millions actual value—it would then be found that the provinces would have been the best machinery to spend that money. He cautioned some members not to be blinded by the proposal. If they did, tlmy would find out when too late there was no safety or protection against the neediness or caprice of the Government of the day. [Applause.] Mr Reynolds said no one had yet shown any good reason why the resolution should not be agreed with, except perhaps the hon gentleman for Port Chalmers, and he could not be said to give a disinterested opinion. It was untrue to say the proposal was new, because it had been brought before the House on various occasions from 1863 to 1872. The hon gentleman then proceeded to quote from the records of the House, and also from the speech of the hon member for Port Chalmers in favour of abolishing all the provinces of the Middle Island. Mr Reynolds then quoted from Mr Fox at the same time in replying to the hon member for Port Chalmers, to show that, though the proposal was then inopportune, very few more years must declare the necessity of the consolidation of the provinces. He also quoted from the speeches of several other members of the House, who spoke at different times in favour of the abolition of the provinces, including the member for Auckland City West, the member for Bruce, the member for Waitaki. The hon member for Taieri had asked why they had introduced the proposal. He would toll him that the considerat ion of the wants of the provinces had forced it upon them, :hat. and the dissatisfaction they expressed at the financial statement and its provisions. The hon member for Port Chalmers said, to protect their land fund, they were prepared to sacrifice all minor considerations. Well, he could assure the hon member that the Government were prepared to give all the security possible, to satisfy them on that point. They would go so far as to pass au Act to secure that land to them, with the proviso that if at any future time the House desired to repeal it, it must be done by an

garded the other points of the opposition speeches, it was not necessary to detain the House, the arguments were so light and superficial. Mr MONTGOMERY opposed the resolution as taking the country by surprise, without being shadowed forth in some slight way. The people were absolutely stunned. He could speak of the Timaru Board system, It received money from another body, and was merely a distributing one. It could raise no taxes, and levy no rates. It was a most miserable approach to local self-government. When they come to the North Island members who voted for the resolution, it was under the impression that they would be enabled to defray the expenses of local government out of colonial money without taxing themselves. The Middle Island land fund did not want protection ; it was a right as sacred as any other property they owned. He knew well enough that provincial institutions must pass away eventually, but they should retain them while they were useful. He should vote for the previous question.

Mr Steward said the constituencies wf>re more directly interested in this question than any other, and if in voting on this question he found he opposed their wishes, he would allow them to send some one else. The country was not taken by surprise. He was a colonist for thirteen years, and the question had been constantly under discussion. He was firmly convinced that if the public voice was ascertained, it would be found to declare, almost unanimously, in favor of the resolution. The position and history of New Zealand reminded him of the Siamese twins. When the doctors discussed about severing the attaching ligament, the opinion was against it. because it must bo fatal to both. That was the case with the separation question. Now one of the brothers was suffering from a broken useless limb and the old cry was raised that to cure it would injure the other brother. That was the present position of the colony. They proposed to cure the diseased limb of the North Island. No doubt it would give some pain and temporary inconvenience to the sound brother, but it was imperatively necessary that the cure should be effected. Government were asked why bring down a barren resolution that might not bear fruit, why not bring down a Bill at once. Why if they had done so hon members would have found in that a still greater cause of objection; He declined to accept as one iota of proof the figures adduced by the hon member for Taieri. He denied that there could not be better local machinery than provincialism, and because he thought better could be made, was the reason he voted for the resolution, and if a Bill was brought down and it did not come up to his ideas of their real requirements, he would vote against it. Hon members said the Government should go to the country. The proper course was for any member who had doubts upon the point to consult his constituents, and if he was opposed to their wishes, let him make room for some one more in accord with their views. The North Island Jprovinces was like the tree the husbandman could not make flourish. They had been constantly asked to cut it down, but the House had been like the good husbandman, they had digged about its roots, and manured it year after year, but it put forth no leaves ; it withered ; it was dead ; it was mere firewood, only tit to burn. When the time came, as to the kind of tree to put in its place, he would give his opinion as to that.

Mr Sheehan said everybody who could express an opinion should do so. Before giving an opinion he felt bound to inform the House that so far as his experience went of the gentleman at the head of the Government, he had shown the utmost desire to meet and provide for the circumstances of Auckland even up till the moment of bringing down the resolutions. The hon member then proceeded to prove that the resolution was brought down solely out of ruffled temper, on account of the opposition of the member for Hutt. Why, this was the worst form of personal government, and no doubt this government was eminently personal. The Premier was the head and front of it. He was the sun, the rest merely revolving planets. What he willed must be done. Surely in such a state of things they ought to establish a medical department, because the most awful consequences to the country might ensue. If the hon gentleman happened to have the nightmare, or his stomach was out of order, some terrible and ruinous like scheme might be the result some fine morning after a bad night’s rest. The hon member proceeded to show how the political history of the Premier had always been identified with provincialism. Referring to the declaration of the hon member of the large sacrifices he had made, the House could estimate these when he told them that fourteen days ago he had been shown a card with forty-eight members marked who were pledged to vote for the resolution. If the resolutions had gone for the establishment of large provinces, he could go with them. If they had sought to join Taranaki to Auckland, and Hawke’s Bay to Wellington, he could approve of that, as something likely to redeem provincialism from the opprobrium it was now under. He'denied that the provinces of the North Island offered any obstruction to the carrying out of the public works policy. He could say it was not Auckland. It could not be Taranaki. It ought not to be Hawke’s Bay, the Superintendent of which was Government agent, and both of which received a disproportionate share of public money. The Premier said nothing could be done with the provinces without sops, but yet the Premier’s speech was filled with sops, the chief of which was the sop to the Southern members by the reference to the compact of 1850, though that ought to have had no connection with abolition. An hon member had spoken of the North sponging upon the South. He denied that that was the case, and made bold to say that the day would come when the North would be able to make use of her magnificent landed estate now locked up. and she would freely open her purse to meet the needs ®f her southern sister, and do it he hoped, without making any of those insinuations disfiguring the debate. The adjournment took place at 5.30, Wellington, August 19. At the evening sitting yesterday,

The debate was resumed by Mr Sheehan, who said that the country must glory iu the principle which actuated Mr O'Rorke in resigning emoluments for convictions. He must regret the spectacle of Mr Reynolds once the watchdog of the House, sitting muzzled on the Ministerial benches, and not

able to get beyond his chain. He blamed the Premier solely, for the impecuniosity of the North Island provinces, in decreasing the capitation tax, The Colonial Govern* ment had squandered thousands in learning the business of colonization from the provinces. When the Premier complimented the administrators of North Island affairs, he was like a boa-constrictor covering victims with saliva, to swallow them more easily. The Middle Island members would find out too late in voting for the resolutions that they had paved the way for their own extinction, and had enabled the Colonial Government to take their estate. He quoted figures showing the fact that the General Government expenditure was enormously exceeding the Provincial compared by results. Why, the changing of the Chamber,*for the last few years, cost more than the Executive of Auckland for twelve months. As for goldfields, Auckland spent on her goldfields £169,000 against £148,000 received from them. If they abolished the provinces, they must still defray the charges of ordinary public services, while those which the General Government how discharged, might, excepting little judicial offices, be as well discharged by some mercantile firm. Neither the public or the press demanded the change. Both were taken by surprise. He predicted that if the provinces went out, the hon member who was at present at the head of the Government would soon go after them. Mr Tribe supported the resolution, on the ground that he had been always opposed to the evils of a double Government, which had always pressed undue weight upon the goldminers. It would be a boon to the country to sweep away provincialism. He gave various instances of provincial mismanagement in Canterbury. He would not speak against the resolutions, but was full of arguments in favor of them. Provincialism was the worst form of centralism. Those who opposed the resolution had a beneficial interest in conserving it, even to’tbe member for the Selwyn, The Superintendental element was so strong in the House that it was impossible to sustain an independent opinion, for who could resist the persuasion of self interest.

Mr Gibbs supported the resolutions, and would rather see an appeal to the country than a change of Ministry, or even an alteration in it.

Mr Murray spoke against provincialism, but condemned the resolutions as vague and undefined. He wanted first to see the sub« stitute for provincialism. Mr Wood made an eloquent speech in favor of the resolutions. He had intended, on his own account, to bring forward something similar. He had originally been alarmed at the way proposed to carry out the public works. In conjunction with the members for Auckland West, Eden, and others, he had organised an opposition which ousted the Ministry. What was the result? When the new Ministry went upon Government benches the member for Auckland West, who before said he could not afford to play unlimited 100, no sooner became a Minister than he took up the hands of the late Ministry and accepted their stakes. The chief objection to the Bill was to any organic change this session. None was proposed, and they could discuss that question, when the proposal took shape. New Zealand had on its back now as much as she could bear. Continue Provincialism with its annual application for loans and assistance, and she must succumb to it. The era of public works had practically superseded provincialism, by depriving it of the functions performed by it, in the early days, when provincialism was the sole machinery for colonisation. Now, between the General Government, municipalities, and road boards, what was left for it to do. The hon member for Rodney abandoned his ground when he said he could go with Government if they abolished Taranaki and Hawke’s Bay, and made one or two big provinces. Yes, he was ready to shed the last drop of his brothers’—his little brothers’ —blood in defence of local self-government. Auckland was so impecunious that, last session, they passed bogus estimates, which they knew could not be met. Mr Williamson controverted the arguments and assertions of the last speaker. He maintained the superior efficiency of provincial machinery compared to General Government administration, either as to results or economy. He had every respect for the members of the Government and their public work s policy, but must strongly oppose the present resolution. The people would not tamely give up their privileges, and the next Parliament would send in a new set of men, who would reverse the order of things. He was much applauded. An adjournment took place at 35 minutes past 12.