GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 43, 20 July 1874, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(Per Anglo-Australian Press Telegraph Agency.) The debate on the excise duties was resumed by Mr Pyke,wlio said the Government had by implication promised that the matter should be'referred to a Select Committee. Besides he maintained Government had deliberately promised the distillers that there was no intention to increase the excise duty. He utterly deprecated the Government of any country playing fast and loose in that way. He entirely agreed with the views embodied in an amendment given notice of by the hon member for Port Chalmers, so that some per mancnt security would be afforded to persons engaged in distillation. Mr McGillivuay also approved of the amendment to be proposed by the member for Port Chalmers as meeting the case exactly. He would rather see colonial spirits paying 12s per gallon than that home spirits should be imported at all. Mr Thompson opposed the proposals on the ground that Government was not justified in carrying out such proposals after the promises they had made distillers, for he considered Mr Cawkwell had by far the best of the argument with the Government as shown in his pamphlet. There was a great deal of sentiment talked about closing up the distilleries of the colony, but they all knew that if they did that there would be any amount of illicit distillation. Considering the amount of interest suddenly taken in this question he could not help thinking importers had something to do with the hue and cry now raised against colonial distillation, It appeared that large numbers of members opposed the Select Commitee because they were afraid Mr Cawkwell had a claim and would push it. No donbt Mr Cawkwell had a good claim and would yet establish it, and it would have to be met out of the revenues of the country. Question was then put that progress be reported and leave given to sit again, upon which the House divided with the following result. Ayes, 25 ; noes, 36. Mr Macanbrew then moved as an amendment, that in order to provide permanent security to distillers against any unexpected increase in rates of duty, the rate should be on all spirits manufactured in colony during 1878, seven shillings per gallon to be imported, and sixpence a gallon for the two following years, and to remain at eight shillings per gallon until altered by law. He regretted that the amendment had not longer been in the hands of members as they met cases perfectly, because he felt sure that distillers would have very large and just claims against the Government if the proposals were carried. (No, no.) He doubted the ptrfout accuracy of the'Comruisfiioner's figures, which might be modified considerably, without considering the many collateral advantages the colony derived from distillation.

Mr Reynolds could not see how the House could oppose the proposals, consider ing the large prospective loss before the colony, as admitted by the first clause of the amendment. He could assure members that the Government had given the question their most serious and long consideration, and it was impossible that the country could go on losing so much per gallon. Mr Luckie pointed out that the second paragraph of the amendment was cunningly worded. It would secure for distillers the differential duty by the Act of 1868, because he was given to understand there was three years' Bupply in bond at Dunedin. Mr SwANSON reiterated that, according to Mr Seed's letter, Mr Cawkwell had a good case against the Government, though the letter was so equivocally worded that Mr Cawkwell had to write to Mr Seed to ask him what was the exact meaning of his words. Why did not Government buy out these distillers and go into the grog business at once and have the whole thing to themselves with all their other businesses. He hoped the hon member would withdraw his amendment.

Mr Stafford said he hoped the hon member for Port Chalmers'resolutions would recommend themselves to the good sense of the House, as he thought they wers so framed as to meet the circumstances of this very peculiar case, while prepared to admit that colonial distillation caused considerable loss to the colony ; he also distrusted the figures adduced by the Commissioner of Customs, indeed he always distrusted the figures of that department more than those of any kind. It must be recollected that the establishment of licensed distilleries had completely checked the large amount of illicit distilling, which had notoriously prevailed—no fewer than forty-one stills having been discovered in one district in one year, but how many were not discovered 1 There was no doubt, whatever Government had, as holding out inducements, in effect promised not to interfere rigorously with the duties. Mr Vogel declined to enter in committee upon that phase of the question, which involved detriment to any company or individual. No one could doubt that it was absolutely necessary to increase the excise duty; but they could not consider an abstract question in a proper manuer, while it was mixed up with questions of private rights. So little had Government the desire to act in a way injurious to distillers that they would be prepared to grant a Select Committee after the Bill containing the resolutions had been read a first time, in order to investigate the merits of the case. Mr Gillies maintained as against the figures submitted by the Commissioner of Customs, that although Government might have missed a certain amount of revenue, the colony as a whole had not lost anything. On the contrary, it had been largely a gainer, as 294,000 gallons of spirits had been distilled in the colony, for which the money had been retained here. Mr Reader Wood pointed out that as the resolutions of the member for Port Chalmers would not come into force before 1878, and as this Parliament would not longer be in existence, it was better that this Parliament should allow the next Parliament to deal with the matter. He considered the Government was acting quite fairly in the matter. Sir Cracroft Wilson could not see how that a breach of faith was discovered now which was never heard of before. Major Atkinson said that, while he would be prepared to consider the claims of any persons against the Government, he would like to see the purely fiscal question stripped of its private bearings and dealt with on abstract grounds. The resolutions were "then carried on the voices and reported to the House, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday. The Post Office Saving Banks Bill was committed. Mr Swanson could see no necessity 'for limiting the deposit to £IOOO, or to limit it at all. Mr J. E. Brown, speaking of his own knowledge of the surprising way in which Saving Banks deposits were turned over, was certain that in case of a financial crisis, the possibility of withdrawing such large amounts was dangerous. The danger was great with the ,£IOOO limit, but much greater if unlimited. Savings Banks were not intended for persons owning such large amounts. The Premier had no doubt the Government were quite capable of carrying on business as safely as any Bank, and did not apprehend any danger from the £IOOO limit, but must object to so serious an innovation as making the deposits unlimited. Mr Pyke pointed out that the Government was entering into unfair competition with the ordinary banking institutions of the country in this way. A man could place £SOO in the Bank in Dunedin, and could draw it fin Wellington without paying any exchange. It was most unfair to the other Banks. Mr J. E. Brown thought that a most unfair proceeding, if true. Mr Vogel could not see that Banks had any reason to complain, because the Government extended to the savings banks' depositors every reasonable facility they could. [Hear, hear.J The Bill was reported without amendments, read a third time, and passed. The New Zealand forest debate has been adjourned till Tuesday. The Premier moved the second reading of thejGovernment Insurance and Annuities Bill. He explained the provisions of this Bill. The second clause repeals the Acts of 1869 and 1870. Clause 15 enables married women to contract as if sole, and dispose of interest in contracts by will. Clause 20 makes life annuities free from taxes. Clause 26 provides for loans on policies. Clause 27 makes provision for arbitration in disputes between the annuitant or his kin and the commissioners. Clause 41 provides for the annual accounts being laid before Parliament. Clauses 42, 43, and 44 provide for an actuarial investigation every five years, and the bringing up statement and report. Clause 45, the qs«l clause, provides for surplus of funds divisablc among policy' holders ; the last clause being hedged round with every kind of precaution to make its operation beneficial, and places the whole under the control of the House. It was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday. The House went into committee upon the Civil Service Act Amendment JBill. The Premier proposed to amend the second clause as follows :—The repeal of 19thsection of said Act shall not affect any persons transferred from provincial civil service to colonial ciyil'scrvicc before passing of the said Act. II was strongly opposed by Mr Swanson aud Mr Wood, it was agreed to. lu clause 3 u the name of David Lewis, commissioner,

appointed under the New Zealand Land Claimants' Ordinance was introduced, and to whom the pro visions of the Act arc to extend specially. Clause 10 provides for retiring allowances, and that no pensions are to be granted if the annual sum of £9OOO be exceeded, unless the Governor considers the claimant entitled to it.

A sharp discussion followed, Mr Reader Wood moving that the part giving discretionary power to the Governor to grant pensions in excess of £9OOO be struck out, There was a long discussion followed by a division, the result being that the clause in its original form was retained by 28 to 9. The House adjourned at one a.m.