PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 11, 12 June 1874, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

THIS DAY. The Speaker took the chair at noon. TIMBER ON. BAILWAY RESERVE, LITTLE RIVER. Mr Potts asked the Government whether they were aware that timber was being cut and carried away from the railway reserve. If the Government, however, preferred it he would not ask for an answer that day, but defer it until Tuesday next. Mr Montgomery said the Government would prefer the course pointed out by the hon member. The question, therefore, stood till Tuesday. BRAND REGISTER. In reply to a question from Dr Rayner, Mr Jollie said that the brand register spoken of by the hon member was in hand, and would shortly be completed. When this was done, the register would be supplied to all the poundkeepers of the province. QUARRY ROADS. Sir ;Cracroft Wilson moved that a sum of £IOOO be laid on the estimates for the purpose of repairing the following Quarry roads, and that the sum be apportioned as follows :—From the foot of the hill to the top of the same, commonly known as Worsley's Track, £6OO ; road to Hoon Hay quarry, £250; road to Halswell quarry, £l5O. Mr Maude said that the Government looked upon the vote of last session as having been voted for the main roads over which the quarry roads passed. The Government had, however, replied to a deputation on this subject, that the Government would grant the sum of £3OO towards the repair of the roads to the several quarries. The Government, therefore, would oppose the motion of the hon member. Mr Higgins opposed the motion. Mr G. B. Parker thought that the great principle of development of the resources of the country was by means of grants in aid of private enterprise. Mr Andrews opposed the resolution, on the ground that there was no guarantee that any benefit would result to the public. Mr JEBSON supported the resolution, as did Mr W. B. Tosswill and Dr Turnbull, the latter advocating the attaching of a condition to the grant that so many yards of stone should be delivered.

Messrs Knight and R. Turnbull opposed the resolution, the former hon member urging on the Government the necessity of regulating the width of the tires of the waggons.

Sir Cracroft Wilson replied at some length. The motion for going into committee on the resolution was then put, and declared to be carried on the voices.

The Government called for a division, which took place as follows :

Ayes 10 Woes 21 The motion was therefore negatived. CARRIAGE OF STOCK.

Mr Harper moved—" That the charges on the carriage of live stock on the railways should be reduced to the same amount in proportion as those charged for dead stock." At present the charges were simply prohibitive. Mr Bluett seconded the motion. If the Government were reducing the rates on dead stock, they should in all fairness reduce those on live stock.

Mr Maude said that the Government, under the circumstances, could not see their way clear to make the reduction as asked by the hon member, the more so as they really had no convenience on the railway to carry stock. He thought the charges were not high, because the railway had a great deal of trouble, besides having to provide high-sided waggons.

Mr Montgomery pointed out that under the present tariff goods were charged far higher than 6heep for carriage. A lengthy discussion ensued, in the course of which torJEBSON took occasion to emphatically declare that the management of the railway had been radically wrong throughout. The motion was then put and agreed to on the voices. APPOINTMENT OF ANALYST.

Mr Potts moved, " That an address be presented to the Superintendent requesting him to appoint a skilled person as local analyst in terms of clause 8 of the Adulteration of Food Act." The hon member, in a very effective speech, brought before the House the baneful effects produced by the poisonous compounds vended by the various licensed houses.

Dr Rayner seconded the motion, remarking that it was one of the most important motions ever discussed by the Council.

Mr Montgomery said the Government would be exceedingly happy to accede to the resolution. There would, he believed, be no difficulty in procuring the services of a Professor of chemistry, as analysist and the Government would take care that a proper system of inspection, as pointed out by the bon member who had moved the resolution should be caaried out. fllear, hear.] The motion was agreed to on the voices. FEES TO THE RACECOURSE. Sir Cracroet Wilson moved for leave to bring in a bill amending the Racecourse Reserve Ordinance so as to enable the Jockey Club to charge a fee to persons entering the course on fcot. Mr Parker seconded the motion. Mr Montgomery said that while not pledging the Government to be in favor of

the Bill, he thought the matter should be discussed. With this view the Government would not oppose the first reading. The Bill was then read a first time, ordered to be priuted, and the second reading fixed for Wednesday next. MORNING TRAINS. Mr Maskell's motion—"Thatin carrying out the resolution regarding the arrival in Christchurch of the first trains in the morning, the Government should take into consideration the position of people resident in the country districts at some distance from the railways," was agreed to on the voices. LANDING OP SHEEP. On the motion of Mr Knight the papers connected with the landing of certain sheep, which were afterwards found to be infected with scab, were ordered to be laid on the table. RESERVES. The Council then went into committee to consider the reserves made temporarily since last session. Thursday, June 11. The Speaker took the chair at 5 p.m. PETITION. Dr Turnbull presented a petition from the City Council of Christchurch, asking that an Ordinance might be passed providing that the fees accruing from licenses generally and the dog-tax should be handed over to them. The petition was read and received. Dr Turnbull also presented a petition from certain electors, praying for the improvement of the navigation of the River Heathcote. The petition was read and received. Dr Turnbull moved that the petition be printed. The motion was negatived on the voices. PAPERS. Mr Maude laid a number of reports and quantity of correspondence on the table. Mr Jollie also laid several papers on the table. CROSSING THE RAILWAY. Mr Westenra, without notice, asked the Secretary for Public Works whether the- Government was aware that people with drays were in the habit of crossing the railway lines at other places than those appropriated for that purpose ? i Mr Maude replied that his attention had been called to this practice, and he had instructed the railway officials to take such steps as would put a stop to this practice. [Hear, hear.J PARCEL RATES ON THE RAILWAY. Mr Westenra asked the Government whether it is their intention to reduce the charge on parcels carried on the railways of the province? Mr Maude replied that it was not the intention of the Government to reduce the rates for parcels carried on the railways of the province. FERRY ROAD DRAIN. Mr Fisher asked the Secretary for Public Works if it is the intention of the Government to make any provision for complying with resolutions of this Council passed on the 25th November, 1862, and 10th November, 1870, re Ferry road drain. Mr Maude replied that the Government intended to act on a resolution of the Council, and would be happy to confer with the Road Board and the City Council on the subject. HEATHCOTE SWING BRIDGE. Mr Fisher asked the Secretary for Public Works if it is the intention of the Government to take over the charge of the Heathcote swing bridge for the purpose of removing the tolls from the same. Mr Maude said that the Government thought it only right that the bridge over the Heathcote should be put in the same position as the bridge at Kaiapoi. [Hear, hear, and " No, no."] BRANCH RAILWAYS. Mr Higgins moved that this Council having in view the great importance of extending the branch railways in the province, are of opinion, that in order to open up the communication between the Malvern district and the country north of the Waimakariri. the Rangiora and Oxford line should be continued to the point where it is proposed to erect a bridge across that river. Mr W. B. Tosswill seconded the motion. Mr Maude said that the Government admitted the policy of the work, but the question was when was the time to do it, and where the necessary funds were to come from. He would therefore ask the hon gentleman to allow of an addition being made to his resolution as follows :—" After the word ' Waimakariri'to insert the words 'it is desirable as soon as there shall be available funds.'" He would move this as an amendment. Mr Jebson suggested that as only a mile and a half intervened between the point spoken of by the hon. member for Oxford and the Malvern line, it would be desirable to connect the two branch lines. Mr White quite agreed with the hon. member for the Rakaia (Mr Jebson), and would move an amendment to the following effect, that all the words after " should be" be omitted, and the following inserted in lieu thereof —" extended to a point connecting the same with the Rolleston and Malvern line." Mr W. B. Tosswill seconded the amendment. The amendment proposed by the Government was then'put and declared to be negatived on the voices. Mr Montgomery demanded a division, which took place as follows : Ayes 18 Noes , 17 Majority for the amendment 1 The amendment was therefore agreed to. Mr White's amendment was then put and agreed to. Mr Maskell moved as an addition — " That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to have the necessary surveys undertaken at once, and plans and estimates prepared." Mr Montgomery suggested the omission of the words " ai. once." The Government would take the earliest possible opportunity of doing what the hon member required. Mr Maskell agreed to the strikiug out of the words referred to, if Mr Montgomery would consent to the insertion in lieu thereof of the words '■ during the recess." This was agreed to by Mr Montgomery, and the resolution as amended agreed to. SEA ROAD RESERVE. Mr Wynn Williams moved —"That the road reserve fronting the sea from the estuary at Sumner to the Waimakariri should be widened to the extent of five chains." Mr Jebson seconded the motion. Mr Maude said the Government had no objection to the motion. The reserve might be made as requested by the motion of the hon gentleman,

I Tho motion was agrcod to on the voices. I CHAIRMAN OP THE BOARD OP EDUCATION

Mr J. N. TOSSWILL moved that the House go into committee to consider the following resolution :—" That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to place upon the supplementary estimates a sum not exceeding £2OO to be paid as an honorarium to the chairman of the Board of Education for the year ending the 30th June, 187i5." He might say in moving this resolution that it did not at all emanate from the Board of Education, although he happened to be a member of that body, nor was he aware when he put the notice on the paper that the Government looked at all with favor on the resolution or indeed that they would support it. Since the present Education Ordinance had been brought in the business of the Board had greatly increased, and the House could not fairly ask any gentleman to give up so much of his time as was necessary to carry out this work efficiently. The late and present chairman of the Board had done great things for the cause of education, second to none in the province except the hon Speaker. It had been said that the Board of Education had taken too much upon itself and that more power should be given to school committees. [Hear, hear.] But he thought that every member of the Board would only be too ready to give more power to the school committees so soon as the Council thought fie to amend the Ordinance to this extent. It

might be objected that it would be better to have a Minister of Education, but he would desire to point out that if this were done and a political head appointed, it would utterly prevent any continuity of policy, as the minister might go out on a question of railway policy or some other question, and the result would be disastrous. In conclusion, he trusted to see that the next chairman of the Board, whoever he might be, would make it his business to attend for two or three hours on a Saturday, at the office of the Board, so as to meet the country school committee chairmen. If this were done, he felt sure that a few minutes' conversation in the way he had pointed out would effect more than a score of official letters. The chairman could meet the chairmen, and would then be in a position to recommend the Board what to do in various cases, as he would, by the way he proposed, be able to thoroughly understand the various questions far better than by correspondence. He would not detain the House longer, but would move the resolution standing in his name.

Mr W. B. Tosswll seconded the motion

Mr Wynn Williams hoped the House would not go iuto committee on the resolution of the hon member for Lincoln. He had always objected to the system of honorariums, and should always do so. If any gentleman had done anything for the public, he thought it would be far better that a salary should be put down for him in the usual way. [Hear, hear.] If he were chairman of the Board of Education, he should decline to receive an honorarium such as this. [Hear, hear.] If they were to have a paid officer, let them amend the Ordinance, and say the Board shall consist of a chairman who shall receive a salary and so many members. It was a mistake, he thought, to bring this matter forward now, as there was a decided tendency towards having a minister in charge of this department. And it was not at all necessary to sweep away the Board of Education on the appointment of a Minister of Education, because he could sit as a member of it as at home. The Board of Education complained of having so much work, but they brought it upon themselves. [Hear, hear.] They usurped the powers of committees elected by the ratepayers, and the fact was that the acts of the school committees were not theirs but those of the Board of Education. [Hear, hear.] He should oppose the motion, as he would prefer rather to see a resolution brought in stating that the chairman of the Board of Education should be a paid officer. [Hear, hear.] The House then adjourned for half an hour.

Mr Turnbull opposed going into committee on the resolution, inasmuch as he considered that the practice of giving honoraria had a tendency to lower that sense of duty which every man in the community owed to the State. : Mr Andrews was also averse to the system of giving an honorarium, and as such would oppose going into committee. He objected to the constitution of the Board, and said that the real interests of the working classes had not been considered in the constitution of this nominated Board. Dr Turnbull would vote for the resolution, considering that the work which was given to the public in business hours ought not to be given gratuitously. He could well understand why the hon member for Papanui (Mr Wynn Williams) censured the Board for assumption of powers, simply because the hon member himself had come under the censure of the Board for a similar assumption of power. He should vote for the resolution with much pleasure.

Mr HIGGiNS said that no doubt the work of the Board of Education had grown to such dimensions that members of the Board had to give a great share of their time to attend to that work. He (Mr Higgins) felt considerable delicacy in offering this honora* rium to the chairman of the Board, thinkinHJ perhaps that gentleman might feel compelled by its receipt to give more of his time to that portion of the public service than he had hitherto done, and more than he could afford to do. Still he should support the resolution. Mr Kejsnaway said that those members of the Board of Education who were also members ofthe House were placed in a rather invidious position. No doubt the business of the Board had so increased that it was necessary something should be done to facilitate its transaction. How was this to be done ? Some said by the appointment of a Minister of Education, whilst others advocated the appointment of a permanent chairman of the Board. Now he (Mr Kennaway) did not think that the time had arrived for either of these, but that it would be preferable to adopt a middle course, and, although he did not like the term honorarium, still, as he was no advocate for persons giving too much work to the public for nothing, he thought that the method proposed by the resolution was under the circumstances the best that could be adopted, as they could not expect any gentleman to go and do work outside the Board without remuneration. He thought that the resolution if carried into effect would gradually alter the system at present prevailing, and so mould it as to pave the way for either a Minister of Education or a permanent chairman. Mr Jkbson was opposed to going into committee. If it was too much to expect the I chairman of. the Board of Education to give

so much of his time without remuneration how could they expect the chairmen of the various local committees to give so large a portion of their time as they did to the public gratuitously. Then again, if gentlemen accepted honorary appointments with onerous duties it was very unfair to come down to the House and ask for honorariums for those gentlemen who had accepted offices which they knew to be honorary. Hon Mr Buckley said that what they wanted was a permanent head of the Board of Education. What he should like to see would be a permanent secretary, who should bo thoroughly competent, and receive a salary of £SOO or £6OO. He hoped that the hon member would withdraw the resolution, and that the Government would come down with a proposition for the appointment of a permanent secretary. Mr Montgomery said he was of opinion that the arguments that had Jbeen advanced in favor of the resolution were such that under the circumstances he should vote for it. He thought that it would have been much better if the hon member (Mr Wynn Williams) had stated specifically in what manner the Board had assumed power rather than have brought forward a general charge of assumption. Admitting that the present machinery of the Board was defective, still he was not in favor of a Minister of Education —a political officer—being appointed, but would rather see a permanent secretary having charge of the machinery of the Board. Under the circumstances he thought that it would be best to give an honorarium, and therefore he should support the motion for going into committee. Mr Potts would oppose the motion, believing that it would be far better if a sufficient sum were placed on the estimates to engage the services of a thoroughly competent gentleman as permanent secretary of the Board of Education.

Mr Knight reiterated his opinion that a minister should be appointed who would sit on the Government benches and be responsible to the Council for the acts of the Board. He should vote against the resolution in its present shape, but would vote for going into committee, in order that an amendment might be proposed.

Sir Cracroft Wilson contended that a great portion of the work which ought to be done by the school committees was done by the Board of Education. He was in favour of a Minister of Education being appointed.

Dr Bayner would corroborate the remarks made by the hon member, Sir Cracroft Wilson.

Mr TOSSWILL having replied, The Speaker put the question that he do do now leave the chair, which he declared to be negatived. Mr Tosswill called for a division with the following resuHs : Ayes 13 Noes 22 COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. The Council then resolved itself into Committee of Supply. Class 13—Miscellaneous, £11,497 17s 6d. Agreed to. Class 14—College, Museum, and Public Library, £2533 10s. Agreed to. Mr Jebson moved that the chairman report progress. , The committee divided on the motion. Ayes 5 Noes 23 Class 15—Public Works Department, subdivision 1, £1139 10s. Agreed to. Subdivision 2, £2017 10s. A motion was made to report progress, upon which the committee divided. Ayes 3 Noes 25 The item was agreed to. The Chairman then reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow: Notices of motion having been given the House adjourned until noon this day.