PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 4, 4 June 1874, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, June 2. OPENING THE MUSEUM ON SUNDAY. Sir Cracroft Wilson raond —“ That in the opinion of this Council, it is expedient that the Canterbury Museum be opened to the public on the first day of the week throughout the year.” He wished to point out to the members of Council who might object to go to the museum on Sundays that they could stop away, but be entreated them not to deprive thousands of persons of an opportunity of seeing the museum which they could not otherwise have, and preventing them enjoying innocent recreation on a day which, according to his belief, was intended to be used as a day of innocent re creation. He did not intend to dwell at any length upon this question. During the last session of the Council the matter had been discussed at great length, and had been carried in the affirmative. He should reserve any remarks he might have to make for the time when his turn to reply came. Mr G. B. Parker seconded the motion. He thought that they should give the public —a great portion of whom had no other opportunity of seeing it other days—the privilege of* enjoying themselves in innocent recreation on the day of rest, by visiting the museum. [Hear, hear.] Mr Jebson opposed the resolution. He thought this, was a subject which should never be brought into that Council. [Cheers.] He must say that he was opposed to the course proposed by the hon member for Heathcote (Sir 0 Wilson). Where did they think they were going to stop if they opened the door by throwing open the museum on the first day of the week, as the mover had very speciously put it, The motion of the hon member for Heathcote had taken them all by surprise, and he hoped the Council would not adopt the motion now before it. Mr HIGGINS said that notwithstanding the Council had passed a resolution that the museum should be opened on Sundays, the trustees had vetoed that, now he thought that having divested themselves of the management of this institution, they had no right to pass such a resolution as the one now before the Housse. He believed if the resolution was passed, the trustees would again veto it. He was opposed to the resolution—not on religious grounds, because that bad no right to be brought in there—simply on the ground that the Council having divested itself of the management of the institution and vested it in a body of trustees, had no right to bring pressure to bear upon them. Mr KENNAWAY said that since the resolution of last session an Ordinance had been passed vesting the management of the museum in a new body of trustees altogether. Therefore he could not agree with the hon member who had last spoken. Besides the Council voted a large sum of money towards the support of the museum. He should vote against the resolution, not on the grounds stated by the hon member for Oxford (Mr Higgins), but on totally different grounds. Mr W. B. TOSSWILL said that he did not at all agree with the remarks of the hon member for Oxford (Mr Higgins.) He was unable to see that going into four walls to look at God’s work was any more a desecration of the Sabbath than walking out in the fields. (Hear, hear.) He should support the resolution as he had done on a former occasion. Mr Healey would support the motion. He wished to see them put aside the religious portion of the question, and go to the practical part of it. He had never seen any harm come of looking at God’s work on Sunday, and therefore he would give the motion his support. Mr Andrews said that he was, as perhaps hon members knew, warmly in favour of the Museum being opened on Sundays. He thought that if the matter came before the new Board of Governors it would bo carried in the affirmative, but he did not desire to see this done. What he wanted was a simple resolution expressive of the wishes of the Council. The institution was placed in their hands for the purpose of being used for the recreation and instruction of the public, and the Council had the supplying of large sums of money to enable them to do so, and if these gentlemen declined to carry out the wishes of the Council they must give way to others who would. [Cheers.] He corroborated the remark of the hon mover, that there were thousands who had no other means of going to see the museum except on Sundays, and they very naturally said that as taxpayers and ratepayers they had a right to see the contents of a museum maintained at public cost. Coming to the question of employing labor on the Sunday to attend the museum, there was not a church or a place of public worship in Christchurch which did not employ labor on the Sunday to open and close its doors ; but if that was any stumbling block be would willingly give his services as a volunteer to attend the museum on the Sunday so as to exclude any paid labor, and he knew many others would do the same. The people desired the opening of the museum on Sunday, and they would have it. [Hear, hear.*] Dr Turnbull said that he thought the hon member for Heathcote had been very unwise in bringing before the Council on its first night of the session a question of such magnitude. It should have been submitted to the public before they in that house came to discuss it; otherwise it seemed to him that this was not legislation at all. The Council would not bethought be doing their duty if they came to a conclusion that evening. There could be no doubt of the feeling of the public on the question, as was proved by the action taken by the very large and important constituency he had the honor to represent. He (Dr Turnbull) had given forth no uncertain sound against the opening of the museum, and the bon Speaker was also one of the trustees ; so that the most important constituency had returned two members pledged against the opening of the museum. [Hear, hear.] He thought that it was not right for the Council to place the trustees in such a position as they would do by this resolution. Who were the members of the new board of trustees? Why very many of them were the heads of the various religious denominations in Christchurch, and they asked them either to violate the whole of their object in life, the whole of their profession by consenting to open the museum on Sunday, or else to retire from a Board on which they were considered as being fully capable of serving. He considered that putting this resolution before the House in this as it were the first moment of existence, and in the face of several members being returned pledged to keep the museum closed, was in-

discreet and ill-timed and he should oppose, the resolution. [Hear, hear.] Mr JOYiN'T contended that the public had had plenty of time to consider the question. The papers had been filled with correspond once ml nnnsetnn. on the subject” and at last they were compelled to shut their columns against any more. Minis!, rs of religion and laymen had poured forth floods of words, and he expected that the result of that evening’s debate would be that the dragons of propriety would again be raised, and they would come forth with renewed vigour. However this might bo. he was prepared as a private member of the House to support the resolution proposed by the hou member for tieathcoate. It was his opinion that, they would not find Sabbath breakers in the museum ; they would find more of this in people who stayed at home, than those who took their wives and families to the museum on Sunday. There was, he thought, a great deal too much made of the religions part of the subject, and he felt there was no harm in tire Council giving an expression of opinion on the subject, the more so as the resolution laid down no cast iron rule, but was simply an expression of opinion. Therefore he could not sec that the hon member for Hcathcote had committed any indiscretion at all in bringing it forward now. Mr Webb said that not one argument had been brought as to the expediency or necessity of opening the museum on Sunday. At a recent meeting of the trustees, instructions had been given to the secretary to ascertain the cost of lighting the rooms by gas, so as to open the museum at night ; therefore working men would have an opportunity after their day’s work was done. (Hear, hear.) Another thing was that children would be led to go to the museum on Sunday instead of the Sunday school, and further than this the visitors to the museum would never be able to educate themselves by a visit to the museum on Sunday. Referring to the increase of attendants, he might say, if the museum was opened on Sunday, the staff would have to be doubled. If the resolution was carried, which from the expression of opinion was likely to bo the case, he thought that it should contain a recommendation to the trustees to open the museum on Sunday. Mr Wynn Williams said he should not have spoken on this question, if it had not been for a remark falling from the hon member for Christchurch (Dr Turnbull). The hon member had stated that the constituency herepresented had returned two members opposed to the opening of the museum. The hon member had fallen into an error in supposing that the return of himself and the hon the Speaker was due to their opposition of the opening of the museum. How could that be when the candidate highest on the poll was well known to have been a vehement supporter of the opening of the museum, and the hon the Speaker had, in reply to a telegram from him (Mr Williams) stated that he would be in favor of opening the museum on Sunday. [ Laughter.] It was not right, therefore, to say that because the hon member had been returned, that Christchurch was against the opening of the museum. The fact was that the electors did not care for the other three candidates, and therefore the hon member (Dr Turnbull) had been elected. [Laughter.] He defied any one to go into the museum on Sunday and look at those gigantic birds without feeling a religious awe—a true religion and not a dogma—[hear, hear] —for the Creator of so wonderful a creature. [Hear, hear.] He could not for one moment see how this visiting the museum could at all interfere with the religious scruples of any one, and he looked upon this argument as downright nonsense. [Laughter.] There were hundreds of persons who had no means of spending their Sabbath in a manner conducive to their moral welfare, and he should support the resolution. The Hoh E. Richardson supported the resolution, He felt that no man, woman, or child going to the museum would be a bit the worse. [Hear, hear.] He was of opinion that the hon member for Rakaia (Mr Jebson), and the hon member for Christchurch (Dr Turnbull), had gone too far with respect to the religious aspect of the question, [Hear, hear.] He saw no more harm in visiting the museum than in going into the fields on Sunday, [Hear, hear.] Mr Montgomery would vote for the resolution, because it would allow of persons going to the museum, who would otherwise not have any opportunity of going to see the articles there collected, He would also like to ask the hon member for Heathcote whether he meant the museum to be opened on the whole of Sunday, or only for a few hours. The reason why the Government would like to know this was that some member might, if this resolution were not attended to or given effect by the trustees, wish to move that the amount to bo voted in support of the museum should be struck out. He would also desire to point out to hon members that the opening of the museum on Sundays would entail an increase in the expenditure, and they would have to come to the House to have this additional sum voted. So far as he was personally concerned, he would vote for the resolution, because he believed it would be the means of affording innocent recreation, as well as instruction, to numbers of people who otherwise would be deprived of it. [Hear, hear.] Mr Jebson rose to move an amendment, but having spoken, was ruled out of order. Mr DIXON said that when the resolution was before the Council last session, he had supported it, and should do so on the present occasion, as he thought that the opening of the museum on Sunday would be productive of good. [Hear, hear.] Mr Fisher would also support the resolution proposed by his hon colleague. He would, however, desire to move the addition of the following words :—“ For at least three hours in the afternoon.” The Hon Mr Buckley said that in Dunedin the Athemenm had been opened on Sundays, and no one had supported it more thoroughly than a prominent member of the Church of England there. Sir Cracroft Wilson, in reply, said he would agree to the proposition of the hon member for Heathcote (Mr Fisher), and allow of it being incorporated with his motion. [Hear, hear.] The amendment was then put and agreed to on the voices. The resolution, as amended, was then put and declared to be carried on the voices. Mr Webb demanded a division, which took place with the following result : Ayes 20 Noes 7 Majority for the ayes 19

Wednesday, June 3. The Speaker took the chair at 5 p.m. QUESTION. Mr Selby Tancred asked without notice whether the Government would lay on the table a return show ing the amount of land sold south of the Rangitata. Mr Montgomery said that the hon member had better give notice of motion. Mr Tancred then gave the required notice. papers. Mr Maude laid certain papers on the table. ROAD BOARDS. Mr Maskell asked the Secretary for Public Works whether all the money voted last session for Road Boards has been paid over to the different Boards, and if not, whether the Government will state why some, or all, of the money has been retained •in the Provincial Treasury / Mr Maude said that two quarterly instalment for 1873 and 1874 had been paid to all the Road Boards except the Kowai ; the amount due to that Board had been lying in the Treasury since 30tli ultimo, ready for payment. RAILWAY TUNNEL. Hon Mr Buckley asked the Secretary of Public Works, whether it is true that the works connected with the railway tunnel have been discontinued, and, if so, the reason why ? Mr Maude said that ho would read a portion of the report of the engineer in reply to the question. The railway engineer said ; —“ On examination of the tunnel I was of opinion that the work that was being carried out on my arrival was not necessary for the safe working of the traffic. On running a gauge through the line, which gauge represented a clearance of ten inches over the largest vehicle on the railway, 1 found that it cleared every part of the tunnel, yet the men were employed blasting the solid rock away to give more clearance. In ray opinion ten inches is ample clearance, and far more than I have seen in other tunnels. I narrowly examined the roof and sides of the tunnel, and saw not the slightest signs of any breaking away that would in any way interfere with the safety of Lite traffic. I consequently recommended that the then tunnel staff should bo dispensed with, only keeping sufficient bands on to attend to the simple maintenance of the tunnel and road through.” geological survey. Hon Mr Buckley asked the Secretary for Public Works—“ Whether the Government intend taking any steps to complete the Geological Survey of the province ?” Mr Maude said that the Government did not at present intend to make any provision for continuing the Geological Surveys of the province. PUBLIC CEMETERY FOR CHRISTCHURCH, Mr Andrews asked the Provincial Secretary—“ If any steps had been taken by the Government towards securing a public cemetery for the City of Christchurch, if not, when may we expect some decided action in this very important matter?” Mr Jollib said that under the former Government tenders had been called for sites, but the Government did not consider it advisable to accept any. This was the first time that the question had been brought under the notice of the present Government. The sum voted for the purchase of a site was £IOOO, and this would be hardly sufficient he thought for the purpose. TUNNEL WORKS. ; Hon Mr Buckley moved —“ That there be laid on the table a return of all sums expended on the tunnel works since completion of the original contract up to date.” The motion was agreed to. SHEEP IMPORTED FROM OTAGO. Hon Mr Buckley moved —“ That there be laid on the table copies of all correspondence and telegrams between the Governments of Otago and Canterbury with reference to the refunding of fees charged on the inspection of sheep imported from Otago.” The motion was agreed to. Mr Jollie said that the papers weic being copied, and would be laid on the table as soon as possible. RESERVE NO. 304 ORDINANCE, 1873, AMENDMENT ORDINANCE, 1874. Mr Joynt, by leave, brought in this Bill, which was read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time to morrow. EXECUTIVE COUNCIL ORDINANCE, 1864, AMENDMENT ordinance, 1874. Mr Montgomery, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said that he did not think it necessary to take up the time of the Council by any lengthened exposition of the provisions of the Bill ; he would, however, state, that should hon members wish to go further than the mere alteration which it was proposed to effect, that he should be prepared to adduce arguments to show much further alteration was not necessary at present. What he now asked the Council to consider was—whether his Honor the Superintendent should not have the power of being able to remove bis Executive daring the time the House was in session and before the Appropriation Bill was passed. He (Mr Montgomery) thought it expedient that the Superintendent should have the power, because he could conceive that the Superintendent might wish to put before the Council a policy which he might think would be of great advantage to the country, and upon which the Executive might not hold the same views a? his Honor ; and ho (Mr Montgomery) would ask hon. members whether it would not be expedient that bis Honor should havetbe opportunityof changing his Executive rather than the country should be debarred from hearing a policy which might be of great value. Again, the Superintendent might have disagreed with bis Executive to such an extent that he might think it desirable there should be a change, and if he had the power of making the change whilst the Council was in session the Council could then decide whether such a change was desirable or not, because if they had not the confidence of the Council his Honor must of necessity accept an Executive that had the confidence of the Council, otherwise the Council might refuse to pass the Appropriative Bill. It was not proposed to take any power out of the hands of Council hut merely to give his Honor the power of putting before the Council such changes as he might deem necessary, leaving it to the Council to decide whether they would accept them or not. No possible injury could be done by this mode of proceeding and ho (Mr Montgomery) thought that it might be advantageous as the Council would still hold the power. He did not think that there could ho any difficulty in passing this Bill, and ho asked the Council to allow it to be read a second time and any amendments or additions could be considered when in committee. The principle which ho wished

the Council to decide that night was that his Honor the Superintendent should have power to remove his Executive whilst the Council was in session, and to appoint another Executive, leaving it to the Council to decide whether they approved of the change. Mr Kennaway asked whether the Government would not consent to adjourn the debate. He hardly thought hon members had had sufficient time to consider the Hill ; in fact hon members did not seem prepared to discuss the matter. Mr Montgomery said if it were the wish of the House to adjourn the debate the Go vernraent would not oppose the adjournment. Mr Kennaway moved —“ That the debate be adjourned until to-morrow. The motion was agreed to. Notices of motion having been given, the House adjourned until this day at 5 p.ra. NOTICES OF MOTION. Thursday, June 4. Mr Knight to move Council is of opinion that the time table of the Canterbury Railways should be so arranged as to allow the first train to reach Christchurch not later than 9.30 a.m.” Mr Dixon to move—“ That the papers laid on the table relative to the formation of the Mandcville and Rangiora Drainage district be printed.” Sir Cracuoft Wilson to move— “ That the resolution of this Council passed on the 2nd Juno, 1874, with reference to the museum, be forwarded to his Honor the Superintendent, with a view to its being laid before the governing body of that institution.” Mr T. S, Tancred to move—“ That there be laid on the table a return showing the area of land sold south of the Rangitata for the twelve months ending March 31st 1874 ; together with a statement showing—lst, the area surveyed and plotted since the 31st March, 1873 ; 2nd, the area surveyed and plotted under contract, and the terms of such contracts.” Mr Walker to move—“ That there be laid on the table a return of land sold up to Juno 30, 1874, in the Ashburton, South Rakaia, and Mount Somers Road Board districts, and for a return of all moneys paid to each Road Board up to same date.” The Provincial Secretary to move—- “ The House into Committee of Supply.” Mr Higgins to move—“ That in order to avoid the inconvenience owing to the break of gauge at present existing at Rangiora, it is desirable that the narrow gauge break lines of the Northern railway should be continued to Addington, and that his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to take steps to have this resolution carried out.” The Secretary for Public Works to move—“ For leave to introduce a Bill to amend the Railway Tolls and Management Ordinance, 1872.” The Secretary for Public Works to move—“ That the Council do resolve itself into a committee to consider the reserves made temporarily by his Honor the Superintendent since the last session of the Council.” ADJOURNED DEBATE. Second reading of the Executive Council Ordinance, 1864, Amendment Ordinance, 1874. ORDER OF THE DAY. “That in accordance with the recommendation of a Select Committee of this House in Session XXXVIII, 1872, on the matter of a petition from certain residents in the Kowai district, it is expedient that a road temporarily laid off Hirough section 15184 should be stopped up.” Second reading of the reserve No 304 Ordinance, 1873, Amendment Ordinance, 1874.