FURTHER DETAILS OF THE INCIDENT.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXV, Issue 2178, 6 September 1907, Page 2

FURTHER DETAILS OF THE INCIDENT.

ANALYSIS OF THE DIVISION LIST. AVELLINGTON, September 5. There was only time last night bofore the Telegraph Office closed to give a brief summary of the unexpected incident that for the time being has set the whole Parliament astir. Mr. Massey in the course of his speech said that if the Premier’s remarks meant anything it was a threat pure and simple, that if his own people did not support him better than they had dono during tho last two or three divisions lie would drop the tariff. That was, ho urged, a most improper position to take up. Ho was not only expressing his own opinion in saying that. He (Air. Massey) was in the House ill 1895 and 1900 and took a prominent part in connection with both those tariffs and he had never seen so much party feeling displayed by the leading members of the executive as he had seen displayed in connection with this tariff. He hoped there would bo less “party” in connection with the remainder of tlio tariff. He had told the Opposition when tho House commenced to discuss tho tariff that they wero free to vote in any direction they pleased, and they had been supporting the Government time and again. No one had found any fault with them for so doing. On other occasions ho had voted against the Government and his supporters had voted with the Government. A leading member on the Government side of the House told him lie must not expect to have any of his’ motions supported by a majority in connection with the tariff proposals. The Premier: “AVlio was it?”

Air. Alassey: “Air. Kidd. I should not liavo mentioned liis name but I was asked for it.” “This,” he went on to say, is a sorry state of affairs, when a party spirit enters into such a matter as this.” Air. Kidd: “I rise to a point of order. AA’hatever I said to him was in fun ; there was nothing serious about it at all. I was “throwing off” to him about his sujiporters and I made that laughing allusion. There was no serious intention at all. lam not likely in my position as whip to give away anything.” Air. Alassey: “I did not understand that it was a joke at the time and I am as quick at seeing a joke as anyone.” An Hon. Alember: “He is a Scotchman.” Another Hon. Alember: “No, ho is an Irishman.

Tho Premier said he knew the position he was in and he must, whether right or wrong, be regarded ns the best judge. The lion, member appeared to suggest that he had been attempting to dictate to tho party which supported tho Government as to how they should vote on the tariff by making it a party question. He had never done anything of the kind (hear, hear). He did not take exception to party division. AVliat he did take exception to was that members who voted one way on a tariff item in committee of ways and means reversed their vote on this occasion on the samo items without tho slightest intimation to the Government that they intended to do so. That,' he urged, was a thing that he had the best right to complain of, and when he knew that a member of the Government party had said since the division that it was the result of an arrangement made between what they called the dairy men and the mining njen, lie had all the more reason to complain of not having beon informed. If tho Government had been imposing heavy duties on dairying or mining machinery lie could havo understood them voting as they thought proper to vote, hut as a matter of ordinary courtesy ho thought he had a right to be informed as to what they intended to do. Ho was not going to take that -proposition from anyone and lie wished to say that quite frankly. The Alinister for Customs had taken a great deal of trouble in meeting the requests of tho mining people and tlio dairying people. He went as far as it was possible for a man to go and they all acknowledged that ho did so but notwithstanding tho efforts he made some gentlemen thought it was tho proper thing to put. him in tlio position of having practically to reverse a vote which had been given in the interests of a largo section of the community. “Wo liavo been put. by some of our friends in a position which no honorable member of the House would take,” lie concluded. ANALYSIS OF THE ACTING.

A 'peculiar- feature connected with the incident last-night was that the Speaker, the Chairman of Committee and one of the Government Whips (Mr. Colvin) all took an active part in defeating the Government on the ■item. After the division was announced there was considerable applause and Mr. Greenslade, one of the Government supporters who was active in the plot went up and shook hands with Mr. Guinness by way of congratulation over the victory. The item was exactly the same as the one

discussed in committee of ways and means, via., “goods subject to 5 per cent, ad valorem: Engines and ii. iclnnes for mining purposes, via., Capstan engines for mining shafts, winning engines, steam, air or electrically driven, including bod plates, inundation bolts and friction clutches when imported with the engines, drums for winding engines £4 per cent, ad valorem." On that occasion Mr. Hornes’ amendment to striko out. the item was defeated by 39 votes to 23. Comparing the two division lists, ono finds that tlio members of the Government party who, to use a colloquial Parliamentary term, “rutted” were: Messrs Dillon, Field, Hornsby, Jennings, Ross and Hull. Mr. Lewis wiio on tlio previous occusion voted with the Government, last night voted with his own party. The members who did not vote last night wore: Messrs Allison, J3aumo, Flatman, Ha 11-Jones, Hogan, Houston, Kaihau, Laurenson, It. McKenzie, McLachlan, McPherson, Maunder, Ngata, l’arata, Rhodes, Stevens, Thompson. Of these Messrs Baumo, Ilall-Jones and Rhodes are absent owing to illness. Mr. Allison was also too ill to bo continually in attendance last night, Mr. Parata is absent owing to tlio death of his wife, and Messrs Ngata and Laurenson wore out of town. Mr. Stevens, who is now blind and moro or less of a cripple, has to go home early. Mr. R. McKenzie, of course, was in the chair and so could not vote. Mr. Thompson is absent on jiublic business and Mr. Macpherson on account of a family bereavement. On the previous occasion both those members voted with the Opposition in favor of Mr. Herries’ amendment.

A PECULIAR POSITION. The effect of last night’s amendment on tlio Tariff Bill will be the placing of mining machinery on the free list and in the event of the no duty members not being strong enough to carry an amendment to this effect and file Government's refusal tojroinstate on the five per cent, basis, the voters for the amendment will bo hoist with their own petard, because mining machinery will come under the heading of machinery not otherwise enumerated, and instead of a five per cent, duty will have to pay a duty of 20 per cent. It is doubtful if the malcontents are strong enough to carry the amendment necessary to place it on the free list, but on the other hand the Government would scarcely dare to allow it to remain subject to such a crushing impost as 20 per cent. THE FEELING IN THE LOBBIES. After tho House rose last night it is said there was some very sultry talk between certain members. A Cabinet meeting was held this morning but members are very close and are lying low as to their intentions. Generally speaking there is a feeling of unrest. Some of the Government supporters speak openly of the neoes sity for a dissolution, urging that there aro too many members on the Government side of the House who came in pledged to Mr. Seddon, but who owe Sir Joseph Ward no allegiance. These men must always be a danger to tho party and it is held that a satisfactory position will not bo arrived at until tho air is cleared by a general election. Many thought that Sir Joseph Ward would make some statement to the House this afternoon apropos of the present impasse. In consequence there was a more than usually full house and a considerable number of curious folk in the gallaries, at 2.30 p.m. The expected statement, however, was not mad© and members and the public were left to their own imaginings. Their curiosity was further aroused by the appearance of tho Local Option Poll Bill, but tho general opinion is that this measure is only meant as a threat. Still the Government, in view of the doubtful support of a section of the followers must be prepared for eventualities. Personally, I don’t think there is any immediate likelihood of a dissolution, however desirable it mav be, and in the event of a defeat there is always the doubt as to whether the Governor will grant a dissolution or send for the Opposition loader.

NEWSPAPER OPINION. The New Zealand Times, the Ministerial journal, in the course of an article headed “A Serious Position,” said :—‘ ‘The proceedings indicate that a grave situation has arisen. It is too much to expect that Ministers will submit to the dictation of the Opposition through the disaffection of a section of its own supporters, but it is more than likely that a way out of the difficulty will be found before the House meets again to-day.” The suggested way out, if found, has not up to the present been made public. The Post says that the Premier s indignation was natural, and adds:--“But tKo really sore point was lhe duty had been approved in Committee of Ways and Means and the decision was now refused without, as the Premier declared, giving indication to the Government that such a proposal was on' foot. According to Mr. Greenslado the Whips had been informed hut in any case the Premier had a right to complain and it is not to ho wondered at that he moved to report progress. To think of dropping the Bill is disquieting, but some arrangement will, we trust, be made for carrying on the business in a reasonable and consistent fashion.”