THE COOK MEMORIAL.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXV, Issue 2128, 10 July 1907, Page 2

THE COOK MEMORIAL.

SHOULD NAMES BE

A LIVELY MEETING-

MONEY TO BEMUSED FOR THE

A public mooting convoncd to consider tho question of erasing Die troopurs’ liamos from the Cook Memorial was held at Townloy b Hall last evening. There were fomtoon present, . The Mayor was voted to '^Bcforo'"formally opening the meeting a remark was made about the limited notice given—°uo day llie Mavor explained that the liail engaged 0 for the following evenuig, whilst tliero wore socials °» functions every ovoning up to lues-

da L hiß introductory remurks the Chairman explained that do dad convened the meeting in response to a requisition handed to him byr^f“rsiilack, Miller, and others, by 2U4 names. (Mr. Black. Icould havo got HUGO signatures). As to thoso requisitions, the chair ® a £ J* d . not place too much reliance on them ,

people would sign anything; ] tenges from Messrs. Black and him ( eon ) Well, looking down the list ho . saw the name ot one man who had , formerly been strongly m favor Ol tlio troopers’ names being on tlio memoriaf. He asked this person why ho signed a contrary requisition. Ho replied, “Oh, it was brought to me. I had onougli of it, and signed to got shut of him.” (Laughtei.) Mr. Black (warmly): Who is the man? I can put a different comlilexion on the matter. . , 1 The Mayor: Oh, lam not going to give the name. Continuing, ho said that a meeting of the i atmoUc Committee had been held fast week, and a resolution passed that it tLe £l5O granted towards tlio Cook Memorial was refunded, tlio committee would take stops under the 1 atnotio Funds Ace, 1903, to dispose of the sum as an unexpended balance, bn-

dor that Act any resolution to tievote tho balance to a specified object had first to bo approved by the government. Tho original grant ol £l5O was made before the Act came into force. The sum was handed over to him (the Mayor) before the Cook monument was ordered, with the strict stipulation that it must * not be used unless the names ot the troopers were placed oil the meniorial On this amount the Cook Memorial Committee got a subsidy . ot £l5O But for this timely assistance there would have been no Cook Memorial to wrangle

people did not come forward witn subscriptions; very few, in tact, contributed anything, the largest Proportion of the sum raised, was got through the instrumentality of Mesdames Sampson and Sievwriglit, u ho organised a subscription from the schools of New Zealand. The thing hung fire for a long time. the movement was started in 1902, and ' it was not till 1906 that the monument was erected. The Memorial Committee called for competitive do- ' signs, and chose the present one. 1 voted for another design, remarked the Mavor, “but I was in the minority as I very often am. This uas the reason the troopers names aero inscribed. The Patriotic Committee decided that the names be commemorated in some conspicuous place, and gave the 11150 on condition that the names were placed on the Cook Memorial as being suitablebome might differ now as to tlio advisability of this step, but any opposition should have been made public at the time. The whole thing was advertised as publicly as possible, and the -.i.ioil inforpstcicl acauiesced

ill the proposal bv their silence. No o^lr° P Cck saifthft the £l6O given by the Patriotic Committee and the subsidy only represented £3OO. \\tmt was the complete transaction from said the committee had expected the monument would cost £IOOO and after a time the Government. nromised £SOO, on a £ i°' . subsidy, which was eventually paid. The oxtra £l5O from the lat riot ic Committee was the means of pulling through the project, as up to that time subscriptions had lagged. Mr. Black: Was the money got from the Government for a Cook memorial or a Troopers’ Memorial. \\ as it not really given for a Cook me-

morial? ~ „ The Mayor: I won’t say Aes or Ao to that. I suppose it- was. Mr. Gaudm explained that lie had been one of tlio originators of the Cook memorial scheme, and an article appeared in the “Times.” A meeting was called and a fund started, The meagre response made by the public was, he thought, an absolute disgrace to the district. He sent out 600 of 700 circulars to leading residents inviting them to contribute half a guinea or upwards, the donations received were £l7. He also communicated with members of parliament and public men in ISew Zealand. and the result of that united effort, was only about £SO or £OO. Then Mrs. Sampson and the ladies came to the committee’s aid, and through the medium of pennies-from

the schools of New Zealand about £203 was raised. In the' meantime general subscriptions had gone, up to £lO3, hardly anything, however, being received locally. As to the 204 people on the present requisition lie did not. think half a dozen had subscribed to the Coo'k Memorial Fund. The present, meeting •simply proved that people would sign anything. The Mayor had received many requisitions in his time and knew what little faith was to be placed upon them. Where were the 204 people who signed the requisition? Mr. Joyce (jumping to his feet) : 1 object to' this. You have no right to disparage citizens and those present in this manner. Mr. Gaudin: Well, where are the

204 signatories? Mr. Joyce: Sit down. Mr. Gandin : Not for yon. I have been waiting for this for a long time and will have my say. Continuing, amidst interruptions, he said the committee collected a little over £3OO and then there came this vote of £l5O from the. Patriotic Committee. Before this the Government had promised a bonus of £ for £ on £SOO. The £l5O was voted without his asking for it, and it came as a surprise to him. The Patriotic Committee made a proviso that all the names of the troopers who loft this district . for South Africa should he placed on the monument. That was "all right and the Cook Committee accepted the money. Mr. Cox: Is it not a fact that in the secretary’s minute a tablet was stated? Mr. Gaudin: Yes.

The Mayor: I made the remark myself about, a tablet. Mr. Black: Was it not intended to put a tablet on the stone underneath the monument? The Mayor: It was left entirely to the contractors where to put the names.

Mr. Caudill added that tlio names were put on in Gisborne by the contractors. They found they could not get all the names on one side and therefore had to do the best they could. The extras brought the total cost to £1066. Had it not. been for receiving £l5O from the Patriotic Committee,with the £1.50-Government subsidy, the monument would not hove been in its place to-day. Considering the object for which funds were asked, the miserable response

from such a. rich district was an absolute disgrace. There was not a single objection raised wlien the money was given ; not until a month before tho unveiling was a word said about the names. Who started the agitation? He would leave the meeting to answer the question. Mr. Cox said there was a letter in the paper on the subject. If not the first he was almost the first person to raise an objection. He went down to Kaiti himself and saw the names. He admired the monument but considered it spoiled. Mr. Gaudin: I have spoken to seven-eighths of the men who went from this district to South Africa and what is their answer? They are only too proud to see their names on the monument. Mr. Simeon vigorously challenged this statement. Mr. Gaudin: Where are your comrades? Why are they not here to speak for themselves ?' I have a requisition myself signed by the return-

ed troopers. Not- 30 signed it.. ’ Mr. Simeon: Why don’t yon pro- ’ dnce it? Mr. Gaudin ignored the query. 5Je ' reiterated that the men were only too proud to see their names on the memorial. Mr. Simeon (hotly): B.e hanged to that yarn. • Rot! Mr. Gaudin saw no incongruity in the idea. Captain Cook was the man who discovered this colony, and the troopers were representative of those who held it. A Member: Tasman discovered it. (Laughter.)

The Mayor: Captain Cook was the first Britisher to find it. A Voice: The monument' should have been to Young Nick. The Mayor agreed that Mr. Cox was one of the first to object to the names, if not the first.

A citizen . remarked: I understand nothing can he done towards taking the names off until wo raise the £3OO. His Worship: To be hone it to the Government' wo should return their

£l5O, but wo are not going to trouble

übout that. Mr. Joyce: Why wore the IUW'o ever put on tho memorial? It was a monument to Captain Cook, and t no committee had no right to cako MO-. plo’s money and divert it to anotnor purpose. The Cook Memorial Committee had no right to take the mom y with such a stipulation, nor bad tnc Patriotic Committee the right to donate it. It cannot be called a memorial to Captain Cook, the discoverer of this colony-- . . Mr. Gaud in: Or Dominion. . . Mr. Joyce: It is not a Dominion. It is too small for a Dominion will I all respect to Ward and liiß experiments. (Laughter.) I Continuing Mr. Joyce, asked who authorised tho "solf-appointed Cook I Memorial Committee to put the nnun b

Mr. Gaudin: I am certain v cu didn’t. Mr. Joyce. Mr. Joyce: I don’t want vour interruption. I am talking t< «ip Chairman, not to you. I tho names had no right ° nt,K ‘ morial. With all duo respect to Mr. Goudin, I differ as to the luoliag of the men themselves. I have n-o“ e u to over 15 of them—they were quite against it, Sir. Evory trooper I have mot objects to it. At the same time X believo in putting up a memorial i to those wlio died in South Afric-i and 1 am willing to subscribe to ere. but what wo want a memorial to .iving troopers for I can’t imagine. -1 we were to build monuments to all who have fought for t.ho Empire v e would have a monumental wall light round England. The thing ib fMU'wJ. and no wonder it is tho laughing stock of the colony. It was onlj a man’s duty to fight for Ins eountiy. If it was in Russia ho would be to. c. to fight, and tho same in Germany. Those who subscribed the money never authorised the Cook (.ainimUoe to take such a step, lie continuec. He had cone to one meeti lg hut isas not allowed to talk. He agreed that Mr Gaudin had been a straight-for-ward hard working secretary, but lie and the Mayor had worked very energetically to keep the names on. He proposed a motion that the names of the troopers be erased lrom the monument and that a separate memorial be erected to those who tell in South Africa. Ho though this would meet with the approval of all the Poverty Bay troopers who went to. South A Mm Joyce said that it was hardly worth discussing the value of this “celebrated memorial, hut he would be very sorry to give £IOOO for that bit of granite, seeing that he could import one from Aberdeen for infinitely less. , , , , , Mr. Gaudin: You don t know what you are talking about. Mr. Joyce: If I don t, are not the man to teach me. kou aro hardly born yet, young man. I know that I can get three contractors to put up a similar monument for £oUU, with all respect to your limited know-

ledge and comprehension. Mr. Gaudin.: You ask the of Customs and you will find out the cost landed. .... . Mr. Joyce: I know what is in it and the base. I did not neglect like others to look into things. (Laughter.) In conclusion he said that if any names were placed on, they should bo those of Dr. Solander and Mr. Banks, who were with Captain Cook, and who landed from the “Endeavour” and came up the river in a small boat. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Black said that as the ringleader, he might term it, in this mat; tor, he was simply taking this stand as an admirer of Captain Cook’s. He was not there to “barrack” for anyone. He considered the monument

a national disgrace in its present state. Could they name another monument to any great man of the Empire that was crowded out with the names of 163 outsiders? Mr. Gaudin rose to a point of order, but was overruled. Mr. Black considered the £l6O should never have been accopted on those terms. He certainly thought the committee responsible should find means to erase the names, and that the public should not be called upon to do so. He had written before the opening da- objecting, but the Mayor stated at one meeting that the men had as much right to have their names inscribed as Captain Cook had. (The Mayor: I never said that.) As to the requisition people had readily signed it, as they did not want to spoil the significance of the Cook Memorial. Thev were only too pleased to sign. Just imagine a proposal to put a few hundred names on the monuments to Nelson or Wellington—a man who dared to suggest such a thing would be lynched. Tile speaker concluded ky saying had he been hero at the start he would

I certainly have “kicked up a row.” Mr. Caudin seconded Mr. Joyce’s motion, pro forma only. He ridiculed tlie assertion that a similar monument could be got for £SOO. The Collector of Customs could prove that the cost landed at Gisborne wharf was close on £7OO. The labor ran into from £l2O to £2OO. and there were other expenses. He could say without fear of contradiction that McNab and Mason, the contractors, *had not made £SO out of the whole thing—(Mr. Joyce loudly questioned the statement) —and the secretarv did not get a penny piece for his work. Three people stood to lose. The contractors for the iron railin'- gave a donation towards it, and did not make one farthing. . Mr. Black: Was the railing £80? Mr. Caudin: The thing cost us £7O.

Mr. Black (expressively): By Jove 1 (Laughter.) Mr. Gaudiu: Is Mr. Joyce ail authority on masonry ? I will tell him something. I have expert opinion that to get those names off the monument will spoil it. Mr. Joyce, in sarcastic vein, said the names were not properly on it yet. They were only just marked on it. they would, to be lasting, need to be engraved and deepened. Mr. Gaudiu : I suppose you are a . great expert 1 Mr. Joyce: You know nothing about experts, at any rate. Mr. Simeon said the returned troopers had a smoke social Mr. Gaudin: We were not asked to it. Mr. Simeon: lam not talking to you. I know quite well you were not asked. We were there as a body of our own comrades, and passed a resolution that we would like our names off. We don’t want a monument to living men, but we would like to have a memorial to our two poor comrades who died and are buried in South Africa. My name for one should never have "been put there—it was done without my authority. Mr. Gaudin: You are proud it is there. Mr. Simeon denied any pride in such a piece of work. Where else in the world would they find a memorial to living men? The troopers did not want to be stuck up to ridicule. A man who wanted his name up was not a soldier. They were citizens now, but if they were called upon they would go to the front again, he would guarantee. Interjection from Mr. Gaudiu and another. Mr. Simeon: Oh, you can laugh, but a lot of your sort were frightened to go for your ow n skins’ sake. (Applause and dissent.) He added that a meeting of*troopers had been called for Friday evening, but the attendance was too moderate to pass a resolution. He could assure his hearers that the troopers as a body were in favor of the requisition. Mr. Gaudin: You are wrong. I saw some to-dav, and they were against it. Mr. Simeon : Tell me their names. The Mayor stopped the little pas-sage-at-arms. They were getting away from the subject. Mr. Miller regretted that the meeting had degenerated into personalities, and sought to pour oil on the troubled waters. Personalities were uncalled-for, he was sure, from •both sides. Those who had the monument erected only carried out the wishes of those who subscribed the money. He thought those in charge of it had done excellent work, excepting in inscribing the troopers’ names, and he favored having the names taken off. Still, he was not going to blame those in charge of the work. Whether the monument could have been done cheaper was not a question to debate at this late stageu There was no necessity for Mr. Gaudin to make a personal matter of itr—all had a right to express their opinions. As a member of the Patriotic Committee he (Mr. Miller) quite agreed with the resolution of that committee re the. money. He was quite prepared to contribute, and hoped that the sum would bo raised, and that the Cook Memorial Committee would agree to delete the names. Mr. Gaudin: It will cost- £3OO to do what, is asked. Mr. Miller: That is only a question of opinion among laymen. It: should not cost a great deal to place the names on a bronze tablet-. Mr. Gaudin : I am speaking on the authority of practical moil. Air. Miller: I will support any movement to subscribe the money and erase the names.

Mr. Webli: We must not spoil the stone, though. - Mr. Miller for his part supported the money being refunded to the Patriotic Committee, and then handed back to erase the names and provic.e a suitable memorial to the troopers. He was sure the Mayor would support it-r—if he wQuld not he was mis-

taken in bis estimate of Turn The Patriotic Committee had satisfied all claims, and would have no other uso

for the money. j Mr. Cox was pleased to hoar Mr. Simoon’s remarks. It seemed to him the responsibility for what had keen done rested equally as much on the Patriotic Committee as the Cook Oommitteo. Respecting Mr. Joyce s motion, it would bo as well to add a proviso that too money bo returned for the purpose mentioned. Mr. Joyce said people had subscribed to both funds. _ Why should not the Cook Memorial Committee collect the money and carry the thing

through. „ r I Mr. Cox said tlio funds were for different objocts. . I Mr. Joyce remarked that a largor l meeting should have discussed the I question. A week’s notice at feast should havo boon given to enable countrv residents to attend. . Mr. Webb: There are several at | our club who are interested, but not one would attend. Regarding the amount to be raised, Mr. Joyce said the method proposed was like taking it from .the loft hand and giving it to the right hand. . , . Mr. Black: Is it necessary to give the £l5O back before the names can bo erased? The Mayor: Yes, according to the resolution sent us. Mr. Black suggested that the names bo left on, but three bronze tablots be placed over them. (Laughter ) It was feasible, he thought, the tablets could be engraved with names or scenes connected with Captain Cook’s landing. It was a question whether enough could bo raised to erase the names and put up ano-

ther monument. , Mr. Gaudin Baid whatever the public meeting and the Committee arrived at, they had yet to treat with the Cook Memorial Com-

miMr? Black said the committee could not ignore the decision. The monument as it stood had been derided in Wellington and other cities; the people here were put down as a lot of ignoramuses. Mr. Gaudin said the articles re-

ferret! to had been inspired from Gisborne, and the Mayor concurred. Mr. Simeon related that a lady from Home had mistaken the Gool, monnment for a troopers’ memorial. Mr. Gaudin: That was duly inspired, too. (Laughter.) The Mayor: Order., gentlemen I don’t, know where we are drifting to. Hr. Williams agreed with Mr. Miller’s remarks. It was a great mistake to come and squabble over it The people who carried out the erection of the monument deserved

all honor. If if had not bean for Mr. Gaudin’s efforts the monument would not have been up. (The Mayor : Quite correct.) He thought it a mistake, however, to have the troopers’ names on, and to have taken the £l5O docketed with such conditions. The monument had certainly been spoiled to some extent ; it was really a Captain Cook-cum-Gisborne Contingent monument, which had not been contemplated at the outset. The troopers deserved a monument of some kind, but why not have it in the form of a tablet on the Post Office or some other conspicuous place? It was simpl- a question of ways and means, He pointed out that if they could raise £l5O they would still be entitled to receive £l5O subsidy from the Government. However, until the money was collected there was no benefit in laboring the question. It was no use “slanging” the Cook Memorial Committee, who had acted with the best intentions. There was no doubt that the combination had aroused an enormous amount of criticism. W hen the £l5O was raised would be time ' enough to consider further steps. He was willing to subscribe. He proposed as an amendment. That a committee be appointed for the pur- ” pose of collecting the £l5O to be refunded to the Patriotic Committee. Mr Joyce was willing to alter his motion to read that the names be erased and the money for the purpose be raised. . .„ ~ Mr. Simeon said that if there was no •other man the con tingenters would subscribe all the money themselves. Mr. Gaudin; Talk is very cheap. Mr. Simeon; What amount will it take. £4O I should say. Mr. Gaudin: It will take £l5O. Mr. Joyce did not see why the Cook Memorial Committee should be consulted. This was a public meeting called by 201 citizens. Mr. Gaudin: Conspicuous by thenabsence. Mr. Joyce: I am not talking to you, you are too officious. lam , speaking public opinion; you only represent three or four. Mr. Gaudin: lam speaking of those on the list. Mr. Joyce:, It is time you shuti down. The public meeting should i override the Cook Memorial Com- . mittee. ■ Mr. Webb: No fear. [ Mr. Joyce stuck to his point. Even [ the committee had not been unani- , mous, the Chairman, the Rev. 'Williams, having been against the deei- . sion, also Mr. Cox. Possibly there were others also if they had had the grit to speak out. He would contribute his quota to the fund, i Mr. Cox suggested that the Cook . Memorial Committee open a subscription list. This should bo as practical a way as any. Mr. Gaudin said only i men had desired to sign an alternative list, opened at the time, for a monument without the troopers names. They were Mr. W. D. Lysnar £2 2s, Mr. Joyce 10s 6d. Mr. Joyce said this was not a fair statement. Mr. Black: I offered £2 2s. Mr. Gaudin: Yes, I overlooked that. Mr. Joyce said it was not right to impugn people’s liberality. .How did Mr. Gaudin know what calls people had on their purses. In reply to a question the Mayor said the Patriotic Committee 'might possibly take a vote of the subscribers as to what should bo done with the money. He thought, however, the committee would co-operate in the movement if it were the general wish. Mr. Gaudin repeated that he had the authority of two leading firms to say the erasure would absolutely disfigure the monument. The Cook Committee would, in his opinion, not consent until assured that the monument would not be spoiled. The Mayor: I don’t know at this moment who is going to give the promise. Mr. Joyce: It is highly disfigured at present. The Mayor: That is a matter of opinion. I think the names an improvement. Mr. Simeon seconded Dr. Williams’ amendment. Mr. Joyce: My private opinion is that the Cook Committee should subscribe this money amongst themselves. They shoidd be responsible in law. Mr. Miller was surprised’ at the stand a number of the Cook Memorial people seemed to take. They seemed to fight tooth and nail against the names coming off. They seemed to think the £IOO was given for the purpose of having more space devoted to the troopers than to Captain Cook. (The Mayor: Certainly not. They had nothing whatever to do with the space.) He was prominent in the matter, but must confess that he “nearly dropped dead” when he went round and saw the liberal space given for the money. A tablet with a few names was all that was thought of at first. Hq had blushed with shame to find their money used to spoil the monument. The Mayor: Unfortunately- y-ou kept all that wisdom under your hat and now you are bringing it up when if is too lat*. Mr. Miller: No one rushed the Cook Committee meeting. They were pretty warm shows. (Laughter.) Mr. Gaudin said that when mistakes were made in spelling or the initials of names in two or three cases, the troojjers had rushed round prettysmart ly to get them corrected. That did not look like objecting. The Mayor corroborated this statement. He had to promise one man that he would have a mistake altered. Mr. Simeon: He was only chaffing you. (Laughter.) The Mayor (Scripturally) : He came to me in sorrow and disappointment, but went away happy and contented. (Laughter.) His Worship added those present did not seem to realise the monument was only just carried through with the aid of the muchmaligned grant of £l5O. The long list of names had, he admitted, rather “staggered” him at the time.

After further discussion the motion to appoint a' committee to raise the refund money was carried. Dr. Williams, Messrs. Black. Miller, Joyce, G. Davis, V. Pike and Colonel Porter were appointed a committee. A '■•uestion was asked whether the money should he handed to the Patriotic Committee without an understanding in writing as to the purpose to which it should be devoted. Mr. Miller: We won’t part with it unless we have a pretty good understanding. I think the meeting can

safely leave it to us. 3lr. Gaudin remarked that the Cook Committee were still £25 short of the amount to pay for the railing round the memorial. Sir. Miller : I think the committee would have more chance of getting it if they were more reasonable in the attitude concerning what we are advocating, (Hear, hear,)