MR. REES' SCHEME.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXV, Issue 2110, 19 June 1907, Page 2

MR. REES' SCHEME.

The mooting convened ioi the Jiur pose of considering Mr. W. Lproposals was held at th CouutJ Chambers yesterday alternoon. Irc sent: The Hon. Capt. fucker (m the chair), W. D. Lysnar, W. D. S. Me Donald, F. J. Dysnar, H. Kea^ay, 1 W Bright, J. Somervell, J. Winn ray J. Sheridan, His Worship the Mayor, and Mr. W. li. Bees. The Chairman said some of them were' uninformed as to what such tramway would cost, and wketh Uie upkeep would be great. XIIL > had no estimates of c6st> or ot fuactieability. A tramway, it it <lid not in anv way interfere with trafhc would ■'lie a very desirable thing. He asked Mr. Bees to make a short address and answer any questions. Mr. Rees read his proposals, as tol-

Ta tramway to be constructed from Gisborne to Patutahi, then to Wharekopae, thence to Williams, thence to Te Kooti’s clearing at iahora, tlience to White s at the junction of the Motu and Rakauroa roads tlience by the Motu township to the Motu bridge and Mangatu, a distance in all of about 74 miles. 2. One hundred thousand cubic yards of crushed metal to be carried on the tramway to various depots along the tramway between Glad-stone-road and Wharekopae, 60,000 for the Borough Council, 50,000 for the County Council. 3. The County Council and the Borough Council each to [borrow £20,000, or jointly to borrow £4O,UUU, for the above purposes, the interest aiiid sinking fund to be paid by W. L. Rees or his assigns, and security to be given for such payment to the satisfaction of the Councils. 4. The timber forests of Tahora and the Motu to be steadily worked, and the timber brought to town upon the

tramway for the purposes of local supply and export. . . , v 5. Arrangements to be made bv YV. L. ltees or Tiis assigns and the settlers whose lands will be accessible from the tramway for the convenience, of the settlers in regard to the carnage of their goods from town and their produce to town, and if possible for passenger traffic. 6. The sum of £20,000 to be spent in the construction of the tramway from Gisborne to IVharekopae, such tramway to be the property of the two Councils, but to be leased by them to AV. L. ltees or his assigns tor a period of twenty years at a rental of £2400 per annum, being 6 per cent upon the total sum of £40,000 Pro posed to be borrowed, made up ot 4 V interest and 14 sinking fund, and a reserve fund to be made tojiquidatc an - balance which may be remaining unprovided for at the end of twenty years. , , . ‘ rf T7l Trai’n TO

7. Four shillings per cubic yard to be paid by the Councils to W. L. Rees or his assigns for the cartage o, the 100,000 cubic yards of. meta! above mentioned, amounting tc 320,030, thus absorbing the second 320,000 of the proposed loan. 8. When, if at all, the profits from the timber industry, from the Tahora ..lid Motu shall exceed the sum of < per cent, upon the paid-up capital of vhe company working such business, uhe Councils sliall be entitled each to receive 10 per cent, of such surplus profits, but such profits must be net profits after payment of all expenses, including payments of interest, sinking fund, and reserve fund. 9. Tlie tramway from Wharekopae to the Motu to be constructed V and to be the property of W. L. Rees, or his assigns, the County Council undertaking to give W. L. Rees or his assigns the right from time to time for a private tramway under the Tramways Act 1894 until the end of the twenty years before-mentioned. Mr. Rees pointed out the route on a map. He proposed a wooden tramway in the first instance. Beyond the quarry a rcuglier tramway would do to carry timber, goods, etc. The cost would vary from £IOO or £l5O to £6OO. Near Wharekopae it would be possible to convert the wooden rails into iron ones if it were decided to make :t a public tramway. It could be used by any contractor for tapping the. country by gettiug permission from the Councils. It was 32 miles to Wharekojiae. From . there Jke would have to arrange to carry the line on to the Mangatu. Arrangements should be made with the settlers to make them partners .so they could travel on the line. Facilitie: could undoubtedly he given for., the opening of the country. In other

countries the first tramways are always wooden, and he asked the Councils to expend more to allow of _ its being converted into an iron line. There are at present running in New Zealand hundred of miles of wooden tramway, carrying very great weights The highest estimate providing for purchase of timber and everything else was £62p per mile, and this included £55 per mile for bridge -construction. t Any expense for repairs would be very small, as they could be quickly fixed. The County’s own carting cost them a very large sum of money annually to* maintain the roads. But as soon as the rails are down the expense is over and the line cannot injure the roads; _ The roads needing metal could be quickly seen to with the assistance of the line. When the Borough brings' in metal the roads are damaged, whereas that would not occur. Everything was provided in the estimate for £SOO, and it should be less. If would cost very little to name a shifting railway for conveniences. He proposed that the first £20,000 should be spent in- the construction to Wharekopae, and the other £20,000

for cartage of stone.;, A loan of £20,000 by the Borough would last them for quarrying, carting, and distribution for a number of years and giro them the tramway. The arrangement for goods and passenger traffic concerned the city more, but it -re-acted on the Borough in the prosperity following and they should co-operate. There were no great rivers or mountains to pass over, and there was very little winding country. Beyond Wharokopao there were one or two little pinches, but the line was down grade towards the coast. Be fore any money was borrowed ; tli<Councils should be satisfied that the interest and sinking fund should be secured: and they could not lose riven supposing the thing fell through they had 100,000 cubic yards of metal and they had' the tramway and they could immediately lease it of charge | fares. The Government would nr doubt take over some of the properties when opened up by the line. Largo areas of rich land .were available, if they were made accessible the tramway would provide this. The railway would take* ten years and they could have a line to Tahora before the end of next summer. They, could go on if they had the money j It would. take 70,000 ft to make the tramway, rails of 66 x 4 with top rail running over the • joints, and where it was straight, it would last for years without repair. Even if repairs were needed the Co'micils would not have to do it. The £20,000 would easily build the wooden train-

way to Wharekopae and beyond that arrangements would be made witn the settlers. The public bodies can only give a right for five years, but it can be renewed. The timber and stone could be placed on the same level as coal by Parliament and a right for 21 years could be granted. He could start within-a week of the vote being taken. The line could go on from Loth ends. All that was needed was the money. Very little land needed to be?taken. The timber should be secured at 10s to 11s per 100 ft, allowing a profit at that, ; ind that was the main expense. 2()0,000ft of timber per week .could be secured without difficulty and that could continue until the whole line was finished. Two miles a. week at least and probably three - could be easily done. A rough strong bridge would be needed over the Waipaoa river; there would be no engineering difficulties of any moment. The line would have to he kept in order, and the Council would have power to see that this was done. The line would lie improved from time to time until it became sufficient for a light line of railway. Some slight-' deviation only may be necessary and the company would have to pay for the land. For the first three years the interest could be paid for out of the timber being used and the cartage of stone. It would not cost more’ than Is per; ton to bring the metal into town. A' railway had to take a risk about-' the traffic carried, etc., but in this case there were such vast quantities of timber and stone to be conveyed. If millions of feet- of timber can be carried down at a profit, there would lie no risk. The railway if constructed would not really help the timber owners and the Government would charge 3s or 3s 6d per hundred feet, bus the tramway could do it for 6d„ It is there wasting. He heard <ST settlers paying £5 and £lO in winter fo- conveyance of a ton of goods; that was scandelous. The settlers would make a steel line with the profits The Government could not ob ir;ct to the line going to 'Wharekopae ns their line was not near it. This would- open the electrical power from the Koranga creek in several places.. However small the scheme may be n/ first it would, be the commencement M a groat scheme! The line would never bo pulled up. The Borough -ouiioil would have, saved a lot-had > :-J:oy had a line to PatntaKi. "With < die great benefits that must- ensue, > submitted, that it should not only i receive attention but bo nut forward I > or approval. He would ask that Mr. 1 ' 3 f.

Fraser should bo empowered by the i Council to travel the country and investigate. The lmo need bo only run at slow paco. Tho first timber land is 7 or 8 nnles beyoud AVharokopao. Even if he had to depend on the Maori timber alone he could get sufficient security and the whites would come in. He a/plied to the Councils because no piivato individual could do it. A private person could onlv get a lease tor five years and people would hesitate, but the Councils could do it because R would benefit the whole of tho settlers and they could have the stone. Tnj only needed a mandate from • “!® people. They did not need to go to the Government. If there were profits the public bodies should share above a certain limit. The potentialities and certainties are great, ino cheap carting of stone, the opening up of tho country beyond and the

tapping of the great wealth only depended on the Council-;. • The Mayor referred to the proposed estimate by Mr. Fraser and asked if Mr. Rees had an estimate of the cost of a lino for a locomotive. • Mr. Itees replied that lie had Mr. Oxenham’s and the cost came to £625 5s for the level country, and this could probably be reduced by £l The Mayor said t'hc people demanded that the rails should be taken up and sold and the Borough Council did not- do that. ... Mr. Rees said that the line would not have to be good enough for public; purposes. If it could be made suitable for settlers 30 much tho Mr. Lysnar asked what timber would be used. Mr. Rees said that yellow pine was proposed. The Councils could make an agreement that iron rails b i put down to Patutah). In reply to Mr. Kenway, Mr. Rees said it was proposed to use locomo-

tives. The grades would not be a great objection.' The difficulty was that if they went to skilled men they ■ would give an estimate for .a thorough/ and complete line. H eonly proposed! that the Councils should pay the cost as far as AVharekopae. Mr. Somervell said he saw the first keo. running on wooden rails between Bluff and Invercargill in 1863. It did not work because they did not have a second rail on top. The sun affected the line and the ends stuck . \ up. . Mr. Bright also sc id that he was' -" " on such a line in that locality and they had to walk home. The whole of the Taupo-Totara Timber CQmpanv’s line was in wood, and later on they put down iron rails. Steam engines are running - on wooden rails in. New Zealand at the present time. In reply to Mr. Kenway,. Mr.. Rees said the heaviest weight would be ■i the Gisborne side. The Mayor said a proper survey would have to be cone before the scheme could be seriously considered. He did not think a wooden line would always be available and he thought Mr. Rees should approach the City Council and get an estimate as to the probable cost. He agreed that it would he an excellent thing to get a tramway to the Patutahi quarry lid to tap the timber. Mr. Rees said his suggestions were ail” tentative. The Councils needed a line to Patutahi. The Councils could settle the question by insisting that steel rails should be used. If there was a deficiency in the money the company should make it up. The line to the quarries: should be open under any circumstances. In Tasmania a line with'steel rails had been put down in mountainous country for £IOOO a mile. Mr. Wliinray said the suggestion of a tramway was mot a new thing. It was discussed 20 years ago:. It was the cheapest s.nd most expeditious way of getting metal. To get th-x metal they were warranted in. acting. There are other-advantages that will eventuate. Even if Mr. Rees’ line took as long as 3 years to .construct, the railway would take construct, the railway would take 25 years. The Councils were only asked to give guarantees and the proposal was worthy of the most serious consideration. The roads were in a very bad state. He agreed with tho Mayor that ail estimate would be as *to the grading of the road. He was in favor of a small committee investigating. Mr. Bright said that lie had serious doubts if the line would be good enough for the roads. The functions of the two Councils would not go further than tapping the quarries. Arrangements might be made for a company to take up the line from there for the timber as, private enterprise. It would do more injury to the' country loads than good. Ho moved that Mr. Rees be requested to put his proposals into writing and show (1) the nature of the work to be constructed; (2) the route propose 1 to be taken; and (3) the charges * to be made against the Borough Ccuncil for delivery of metal in town. The information to be supplied with a view of having the’ merits of the scheme investigated bv exports of both Councils. He said that before they could come to a decision they should have this information. He die not believe in confining themselves to the quarry. -If they had a metal hue to Patutahi they would have good basis to work" upon. Mr. McDonald thought that for Mr Roes’ benefit those present should express their opinions. He : did not see that any road outside the Wharekopae would be benefited. If it had a traimvay it would not need metalling. He thought that 30 miles was being unnecessarily traversed to lap the timber. The timber was in the direction of the Government line. He thought the company would not extend their line past the first tirnThey were unlikely to go right on to tho Mangatu.. He was m favor of tho lino if it was practical. It was questionable whether the metal would be conveyed cheaper than at present. .. Mr. Kenway agreed with Mr. McDonald. He thought the thing was of a speculative nature and the cost gieater than the estimate. Mr. Sheridan ag;reed with the two previous speakers and Mr. Bright. The benefits would cease after the line got to Patutahi. The Chairman said that some time ago permission was asked to lay a tramway on a city road and thoy caine to the conclusion that the lino could be laid without injuring tho read and that permission was not a'ailed of. Tho tramway could be laid as far as Ngatapa without interfering with traffic, hut beyond that . this was not so, and £60(1 a mile would be but a ilea bite to the expense necessary to make_it practical. There was a -bad gradient on winch lie thought- wooden rails wquld lie useless and the locomotive could uot work in wet weather. The difficulties were almost insuperable and - could only be surmounted at great cost- and some bridges were needed. The question was would it- interiere with tho traffic. From Herberts to Ngatapa, ho thought it would completely block the traffic. In one place a --- point is turned and proceed seven chain? and ,ultimately- get alon g only a couple of chains.- A r ery great expense would be needed to'avoid this. This'should pi event the City ■ Couiicil granting permission to lay rails. Many proposals were commenced in a small way but even their .promoters did not know where they fed. If it was demonstrated that the line to Patutahi .would pay lie could consider proceedrug further. Mr. Bright thought that while Mr. Rees had in Ills mind the benefiting or the S3’iulicate, he had primarily in lus mind the benefit of the people as a whole. He should have the thanks ol this meeting and the public' genprally. He moved that- Mr. Rees lie thanked for this work and that regret be expressed that the present proposals were outside the functions of the two Councils. y x, secol, , the motion

and eulogised the ability shown by Mr. Rees He also thought definite opinions should be pronounced. Mr. Rees said that the part of the pi oposals which were practicable could be considered. The laying of the line with iron rails to Patutahi quarries, that would be a fifth of the distance to the Motu. The thing could be Hone if the £20,000 were spent on the Patutahi line. He could be permitted to go further. ,J,dVn J -°‘- sa i d if ifc were such a Cnildf 101 “ J W r ly 0011111 not tllo let Mr'%f Ct aS fßl ' ? S Patu tahi and ■h„„ " e . es proceed further. They n -i to nf°n 1 nee< ? tll ® cheapest estiMr Ti co . n , st f, u ction to Patutahi. • I*■ lie wi e ti SaUl - t lat : would Sl »t him line 1 d t ( right; to run over tho Lysn «r hoped the matter would or n , dro),l ; ec ’v r ' l C->’ could make l m’ce U Ol ru' Roos to that dislance. Ho still urged that the writing i to Pufc his i nt o i "ting. It would bo out of the rsil B.ISF r,lei>,-T----of Mr & T l , that the motion not deb®r !\lr. Reels IIC SeColldcd d i d Mr. Somervell said he agreed with ■ • previous speakers. He would not second Mr. Lysnar s motion because oi the expense involved on Mr. Rees Jhe Councils would be greatly benefited by the line-to Patutahi for the conveyance of mets.l. The two bodies could easily agree *to that. Mr. Rem should; receive the. thanks of the Councils and the public. . i ?. Tr - - Bright said , the line to ' Patu- H tain couhl be const rue tc.TTJv Tho-io.-:- 1 b'dies alone and have it ier tjieir control. It was flmi T :f ask Mr: Reiis toalo am tbing^ 6 to Mr. Rees stated, that) if.% - w „ g j - - l ifci

certain that ho could, got tho uso o the tramway for tho carting of tim ber ho would provido for the runninf of tho line beyond Patutahi. The Mayor said thero was no roa son for inviting further proposal: from Mr. Rees and. put him to anj more expense. They could allow luni to make uso of the lino to Patutahi. Mr. Sheridan said he took it that the feeling of tho meeting was in favor of granting this permission to Mr. Roes. , ■ Mr. Rees expressed lnmsolf perfectly woll satisfied with that arrangement. Ho was working for tho good of tho district. Ho thanked those present and hoped that the lino to Patutahi would bo built. The Chairman said they should heartily thank Mr. Roes for what ho had done. Tho Mayor hoped that the meeting would not. close without moving in the matter. The Chairman: Tho Borough Council is tho" body to nio.'o. The Mayor: AVo want tho City Council to help. Tho Chairman: AVo don’t want much broken metal. ' You aro the people who benefit. Tho Mayor said that tho Borough could do nothing without tho assistance of the City Council as tho body c< ntrolling tho roads. Aftor some further remarks tho Chairman stated that directly tho Borough Council showed any desire to move in the matter, the City would help them. Ho added “as soon as thero is any clamour wo will join in.” The Mayor: A'ery woll. AA’e will clamour as soon as possible. The meeting then closed.

At last night’s' meeting the Borough Council, on the Mayor’s motion, agreed to go into the question- of a tramway to Patutahi, and to invite the co-operation of the County Council.