PARLIAMENT.

Evening Star, Issue 4206, 19 August 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

[By Tslsqbaph.] Welujjgtoh, August 19. In the Legislative Counozl yesterday, The Hon. Dr Menzieg asked if the Government would lay on the table all papers and correspondence relating to the dissolution of the Southland Waste Lands Board, and the subsequent appointment of members. The Hon- Dr Pollen replied that he Was not aware of such papers having reached the Government. He would inquire further. Colonel Whitmore inovvd for aj return showing (1) the entire cost charged to the permanent debt of the Colouy, as far as can be ascertained, of each railway in each Island, including rolling stock, buildings, and plant; (2) the working expenses of each railway j (8) tho annual amount considered sufficient to eover the maintenance of the railways, &ud tear and wear of the locomotives and pknt. In the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon.

Leave of absence was given to Mr Reader Wood and the Hon. Mr Seynolds. Several returns with regard to public work* wws asked £<f by Mr ThomJftm an A

Mr If array, bit it wai pointed *** ly the Government that great lneoavenience Was caused by constantly asking~4or returns involving great labor, and' hV'Wquested the gentlemen to more for these%eturns in the ordinary way. The Premier moved fcho seoond reading of the Comities Bill, and informed the[ House that the whole subject of boundaneswas open to revision and alteration. The hon. gentleman then referred in detail to the principal provisions- of the Bill. He said that Counties might be Altered subsequent to formation, but net without the sanction of both Houses, Boroughs would not be included in Counties for the purpose of government* It was proposed that tne first election for XJouuty Councillors should be for pnwjyear, and that afterwards there should be another election for three years, bnt that would be open for discussion. They proposed first that^ihe.number of be seven, to be afterwards increased to nine. The hon. gentleman laid the most striking features of the Bill before the Houae. Keferring to the provision that the Qhairman -of the County Council should 'be ineligible for election to the House of .Sepresenta- : tives or Legislative Council, was a.great deal to be said Otiboth'sides. The loan provisions had been'framed with the greatest care, and so asl to enable them to obtain loans in the most advantageous ner. After going; through the vanous details of the Bil, the Premier gave to the House a returnshowihg the working of local institutions at Home and the amount of revenue colfeeted by them, with the different modes of expenditure, in order to show the, capacities of the County Councils to raise money on public works,: besides conducting the ordinury aiffairs of local government. [{The hon. gentleman also quoted f rbm a Cobden Club paper to show was TXecfssary sometimes that Countieashould vary greatly msise, and instanced an £ngliah County which contained over two miSions of inhabitants. AiterTreajJing-a many returns relating to Boad Boards, the hon. gentleman said that while tie Government • recognised the necessity of pushing on the Abolition Bill, they still recognised the inmrOpriety of allowing: any considerable section of population, to be in * state of discontent. He was utterly at a doss to understand what was the r cauße of" the discontent in Auckland, because if there was one part: of the Colony more thanoanother which the measure was likely to benefit, it was Auckland; It appeared to him that 1 strenuous endeavors had been made vent the people of. Auckland and th'tf Government coming together -in abnsmetßlike - way to devise some plan for its Welfare, and in this Connection bejasked fwhat attempt had been made by the Auckland authorities to do*nything daring; the past year for the benefit of the people of their Province. He ventured to say that if it were represented to the Government wherein their measures were pernicious tothe interests of Auckland or the representation wquld: receive their most prompt ahd careful oohslder- , ation. -It was not the way to go work 1 .to be constantly harping that the House did not fairly, represent the people, to be discontented with every thing, and constantly crying out against being sat upon, i The hoa. gentleman explained it was intended that the Act should be permissive. -Any Road Districts that did hot choose toicome under "tie Bill might pray to be otoitted ; from its operation; and further, they would be enabled to take advantage of the financial arrangements of the Bill without, of course, being able to make use of the rest of the : machinery: of the Bill. Before concluding, he referred to Sir G. Grey's notice regarding the Bill, and said he believed the hon. .gentleman did not do so on behalf of any large number of the party who'usually acted with him (Sir G. Grey). It should; be remembered . that what was the chiefcause of- the Government introducing thete measures'was the complaints proceeding from Auckland against being treated in an exceptional manner under the first Abolition "proposals. The hon. gentleman then detailed at considerable length the position in which Auckland would be placed under the Counties Bill. When they withdrew their Local Government Bill last session they reserved the right of reconsidering the provisions of the Bill, and in introducing this Bill he asked for the assistance of the House in passing the second reading. It would be a great pity, and an injustice to the country, not to pass this Bill this session.

I Sir G. Grey deprecated the praotice of the ; Premier in trying to bow dissension between the different parts of the Colony. The hon. ! gentleman then went on to show how the Canterbury members aided the Government to deprive Auckland of what she believed to be her rights. They did this in the matter of the Piako Bwamp, on Mr Whitaker's resolutions, and on his own resolutions. They joined in injustice, and now again they were going to deprive the people of all that was dear to them without consulting ths people. There was no doubt, he be* | lieved, that twelve Canterbury members ! were pledged to get the runholders twentyone years' lease of the waste lands of the Colony.-—(Loud cries of "No, no.") Well, he would say they wanted a certain measure Sissed, and were anxious to keep in power a overnment that would give them the measure they wanted, aud which they would never get from his side of the House. The hon. gentleman then spoke to justify the motion he was going to make. It was his duty to oppose this Bill'on behalf of the whole of New Zealand. A more objectionable mesure, as contrasted with their past institutions, never was presented in any Assembly .in the world. It was to rob the people of the Colony and reduce them to a position of serfdom, and [ make them slaves te the moneyed classes. It was to throw into Hie hands of the inn* holders all the land of the Colony. The proposals were monstrous. That was a yetrogmde step, end eught net te be allowed in any civilised country in the world. The hon. gentleman then objected to the voting principle as unjust and unrighteous, as shown in one man having five votes to the one of his fellowman. The proposals of the Premier were te exempt the rich man from taxation and make the peor contribute. He was filled with concern that such a man should be allowed to control the destinies of the Colony. He proposed actuallpthat the poor of the Colony should bear the whole onus of the immense debt' which he got them into, and which he squandered. He (Sir George Grey) was more in favor of local representation than the Premier. He did not believe in a system of local authority that would make his friends rich. Throughout the Bill it was nothing but property, property, property. If the people of the Colony weie aware of the tricks and deceptions by which their present institutions were being altered, they would not submit to what would be so disastrous to them in the future. The people ought to be allowed time to make up their m>nds. If these measures were forced on and passed it would be found impossible hereafter to rid themselves of the incumbrance which was placed upon them. He moved that the Bill be read that day six months.

Mr Mauders asked what was the use of opposing a system that the people need not have if they did not like it. He for one spoke for his constituents on behalf of the *>iil. Notwithstanding the generalities of Sir Geo. Grey the only real objections to the Bill were owing to local prejudices about boundaries. The fee*, ytofleuaa dwelt <m a great many

of the details of the Bill which w<MfU make it peculiarly applicable to country districts.

The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. The House met at 7.30 p.m. The debate on the Counties Bill was resumed by Mr Curtis, who, while supporting its second reading, considered the Bill powerful machinery for doing very little. The scope of their operations should be enlarged so as to induce able men to come forward and take part in public affairs. Councils should be entrusted with all the local administration in the same way as in Ensland. He hoped to see all sorts of Boards absorbed in the Counties.

Mr Rolleston opposed the Bill as unsUitablejand unnecessary, as a cumbrous and unfit substitute for Provincialism, and leading to inextricable confusion between cotuttiea, road boards, and the Governor. The substantial revenues he doubted, and the borrowing powers were a sham-no one would lend money on the'security offered. Asa part of theOelohialpolicy it was a failure—it was a missing' link between road boards, And the General Government, but it began at the wrong end. He deprecated the remarks of one of the party with whom he usually acted in not giving him credit for acting honestly and for the good of the country.

Mr D. Reid said the Provinces would! be abolished on the 30th September, and unless the-Bill was passed the whole Colony would be thrown into confusion and the injury would be serious. He would not be acting justly constituents if he were a jpalrty to bringing about such a state of. things; but while he supported the second re-iding he firmly believed that after a short trial of phe Counties they would be glad to revert 1 to the Provinces. He was opposed to many provisions of the Bill, but would do what he could to render it a workable measure.' He warned discontented out district members .that their constituents -would be worse; off under the Counties Bill than under Provincialism. The great objection of the Bil< was that it gave. Auckland a share, of the land fund indirectly. Mr Montgomery agreed entirely with Mr Reid, and suggested that Canterbury tre cut ■up into not more than three Counties—-(as Mr Reid w shed Otago to bel—and; jfche people consulted as to the boundaries. He objected to the principle of subsidies: as pernicious. " /'/ Mr Wason supported the Bill, recognising it as at least an attempt to do something in the direction required; but he denied that it localised the land fund. '

MrDe Lautour deprecated the losing of hope by the members of his party of'bbtaining some suitable modification of Provincialism. The Bill was monstrously defective in all the elements required. The permissive principle, however, would effectually prevent any County Council ever being constituted in Otago, nor would Otago submit to be\ robbed out of LIOO,OOO next yean - i ' Dr Hodgkinson would not vote for the Bill, and if read a second time he would not asiust in improving it in Committee. • Mr Gibbs supported the Bill in the hope of s«*eing an important amendment. - [ i Mr Burns was utterly opposed to the Bill in every way, but if it must be read a second time he would help to make it as gooct as possible.', 'i Mr' Stout 1 opposed the BUI in a long speech, attacking it on many grounds—the rating, the iioundaries, its tendency to create jealousy and discontent between town irad country, and Above all the pernicious system ot money bribe*;, without which the Bill would not have had tkfi slightest chance of passing because the only /ault of the Provinces was that they could no v t give enough roada and bridges. The Bill wj.» for property and pro perty-holders, and mtfst throw the legislation and land fund ink l their hands. The thirty-nine counties wot'ld be a source of more wrangling than was ever known before. Sirß. Douglas supported the Bill, as it would enable the people of his district to spend their own money, which they could do better than a General or a Provincial Government.

Mr Lumsden disapproved of a great deal in the Bill, but under the peculiar circumstances of the case he would support its second reading. Mr Lusk regarded the Bill as a flimsy delusion, and likely to prove an expensive incubus that would not be easily shaken off if once it became fixed.

Mr Thomson opposed the Bill generally. The House adjourned at 12.30. The House was thin, and the debate quiet throughout.

ABOUT THE LOBBIES.

{From our own Correspondent )

Wellington, August 19. On/the Counties Bill last night Sir Julius Vogel made an able, temperate, and exhaustive speech, and aeenrea its second reading by a majority of eighteen certain. Sir. G. Grey's reply and rhapsody on the liberties of the people did not touch the question. The Government are willing to accept amendments in committee, if the principle is conserved. The, meeting of working men at the Princess's Theatre was largely attended, and resulted in a unanimous condemnation of Mr Wakefield's attack. The resolutions demand a public apology, aad called on Mcssr3 Pearce and Hunter to present the resolutions to the House. A proposal was made, but not seconded, to hang Mr Wakefield. At a caucus of Auckland members to-dav, the Government supporters were excluded. Sir George Grey was called on to resign the leadership. The party is broken up.