PARLIAMENT.

Evening Star, Issue 4199, 11 August 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

[By Telegbaph.]

Wellington, August 11. In bhe House of Representatives at 2.30 yesterday afternoon, Mr Rees gave notice that he would ask whether the Premier had been appointed Agent-General; if not, whether he was to be appointed, or whether any particular gentleman was to be appointed ?

THE SEPARATION DEBATE Mr Ballance resumed the debate by saying that no matter what interpretation was placed upon the resolutions, their real object was to punish the imputed sins of the Government ; but if the Government had mal-ad-ministered public affairs, and brought calamity on the Colony, then the proper course would have been to have brought down a vote of want of confidence. He deprecated the threats made to the House to compel them to vote for the resolutions. The Opposition even went so far as to incite an appeal to arms. Those who notably did this were the members for the Thames, the member for Auckland East, and the member for Dunedin. The member for Auckland < ity East made grave charges in regard to finance, as an eideavor to show that the present Constitution should be pulled down in order to set up another; but he never made good his f round once. He also pointed out an alleged iscrepancy between the Financial State- ! ment and the Public Works Statement of last year; and yet he said the discrepancy might be reconciled. Why did not the hon. gentleman take the trouble to ascertain what was correct before making such sweeping charges. The member for Auckland City East had made out that the Colony had gone LtO.ooo to the bad in ths year. When the member for Dunedin spoke, he said the member for Auckland East's figures had never been answered. But the fact was he answered them himself. He did not take Mr Rees's figures, but calculated the matter for himself, and made out that the Colony had fallen L 200.000 to the bad. The member for Dunedin ougbt to know that the

English Treasurer sometimes showed a surplus of five millions one year and perhaps the next year was unable to show any surplus at all. Yet no one would say that the country had gone five millions to the bad. As to the htatement that the buperinteadent of Otago was one of the foremost in bringing pressure upon the Government to increase their expenditure in regard to railways; well,, he would quote from the speeches of Mr Macandrew and the member for the Taieri to show that he had exercised that pressure, and that he ought to be the last man in the House to charge the Government with extravagant expenditure.. He-believed the member for Port Chalmers was the real father of the resolutions now before the House. He regretted exceedingly to hear the member for Timaru express himself as he did with regard to the Compact of 1856. It was a most sacred and binding one upon every part of the Colony, and if moral obligations of that kind were to be ignored, he trembled for the future of the Colony. It had been said that Otago forced Auckland into the Native war. He denied'this. It was due to the South rather to - say that they prevented the war from being one of extermination. If Auckland wanted a land fund she sheuld exert herself to prevent speculators, obtaining Native lands all over the Province in blocksj and which ought to be her future landed estate. She ought to do this instead of addressing frenzied' meetings about the tyranny of the General Government. If the policy of Auckland was to be agitation she would remain poor to the end of the chapter. The arguments advanced in favor of the resolutions came to a most lame and impotent conclusion, and showed to him conclusively that the only hope of the Colony lay in one Government and one Legislature. There was no doubt whatever that there were local feelings and prejudices—to a certain extent

Bucu were unavoiaame—out ne thought that such provision could be made in the Lands Act or some other Act that would provide for and meet this difficulty. One hon. member had said that by a Federal Government they would avoid the corruption that the Government were now accused of; but let them look at the greatest example of Federation—the United States of America —and where could they parallel such wholesale corruption? The member for the fhames siid there should be radical changes in the selection of a Governor; but what was the Governor but the instrument of the Government, and no Government that acted in contravention to the wishes of the people or their representatives, could remain in power a day. Exception was taken to the constitution- of the Upper House, but he made bold to say that their Upper House deserved well of the country, and would compare favorably with the Upper House of any other Colony. Sir George Grey also said the House of Representatives did net fairly represent the people, but he defied anyone to point to any country in which such, a basis of representation was obtained, Bir G. Grey had beeu so long accustomed to folio w his uncontrolled impulses that he had become incapable of understanding what was the true representative or true responsible government. He talked about the powers of the Queen and the Governor; but what power would the House have if the Governor had *U the responsibility, and the Ministayhad none, and the House had none? The true position of a Governor was nonpolitiQa], and he should be guided by hia responsible advisers, while they ought only to be the servants of the House or of the malority of the House f who kept tfefiffl >P their places, ge did net (jugstiotf the motives <rf

tht hon. otnttansn in utsjna to nU dtwn our Constitution, bnt hedreaded their power to control the impulses and feelings they would liberate once they succeeded in overthrowing that Constitution under whioh ths country had grown up.

Mr De Lautour, while admiring the speech of the last member, differed from him in the standpoint he took, and all his arguments ' were based on that. He thought the House was tiie representative House, while he (Mr De Lautour) did not. He did not agree that the resolutions were an attempt to pull down the Constitution, because the Constitution was at present a wreck. Was not Provincialism a part of the original Constitution, and where was it now ? As to Mr Ballance's references to finance, ne would -7 not deal with them. He was content to take the statement of the Minister of Justice that there was only one person in the House who understood the finance of the Colony—namely, the Treasurer, The hon. gentleman then analysed the last elections to show that only eleven members out of the whole House had been returned as pure Abolitionists, and even these were men who would have been- returned in any case upon other grounds, chiefly past services. That was clear proof that th«people had not demanded Abolition. The hon. gentleman then went at considerable length into the Constitutional history of the Colony to show that they were not intended to have a municipal ' tendency, but a Provincial tendency. Being, as he had been, during the few years he had been .in public life, a strong opponent of Provincialism, it might be wondered how he cam* to be on the side of the House on which he was. WelL after having carefully looked into the whole question, he saw that the elements of maladministration and injustice in the Provinces were owing to their centralists tendencies. Therefore, he would be a madman to fly to such a system of centralisation as that seen at Wellington. In connection with this point, he would inform the House that amongst the out-districts dissatisfied with Provincial administration the majority of them - were goldfields districts. In reply to charges that Mr Macandrew was largely responsible for tae extra railway expenditure of the Government, the hon. gentleman defended the action of Mr Macandrew. It was his

duty to his Province to get as much public works as possible, and moreover he maintained that he had not urged the construetioh of railways any more than was warranted by the land fund of OUgo. He took issue with those who said that this House was a proper tribunal to refer such a h*ge constitutional question as the present, or as Abolition. A recommendation in favor of Sir George's resolutions was that before building up the new constitution they preferred remitting the matter to the people. There was no reason to suppose that under the proposed resolutions the county Bystem would be foregone. It was likely that to a great extent the county machinery would be mate available, only it would not do to make ' the creation of counties the arbitrary work of the House. The request should come from the people themselves. Referring to the promises made by the Treasurer last year, and unfulfilled since, he must—as a foldfield member—mention that the gold* elds were solemnly promised they would receive L2 for LI out of the Consolidate! revenue, £ for £ out of the Land Fund. By the forfeiture of these promises he calculated that every miner in his district had been defrauded out of Lls ss. It was upon the

stretfgth of these promises that nearly every goldfield member had been returned. The ' hon. member then drew a parallel between r independent goldfields members and those who were not so, and instanced the member Sj? o t sl ra » whe » ** consequence of a promise j of the Government regarding the Mikenol water-race, was bound to them at tight ae if he had a ring faf w! nose. The ease was the aame^with■'£!•' member for Grey Valley, ft , things that shewed ' the possibility of a federal bond to preserve the unity of.the Colony. Then, fcSESJmofedimcult would it be to unto to™*treme ends of the Colony against See* pressed wish of the people. *b£ heH «&• ■' the dismemberment of the Colony w?ul?b« a/ealaxmty; but, if it did come, t/eXSw would be responsible. The hon. dwelt.at considerable length on*the «S----services of the Premier to the CoW *&& he lad destroyed all claim to recogSS^J * the House and the Colony. Still, there *&:■?. no man in the Colony mow capable of SoW its; progress than that hon. gentleman a2s even now, if he would admit «£*. dislocate himaelf from his present ind surroundings, and once direcfh^ he was acting with, would The House rose at 5.30. ; On resuming *t 7.30 p.m., . miSl M *°?&*W Sd » ** oli * °* «* oldest members of the House, and the sememejentatave of the conunenaal Colony, he could «nf. i^ AnA :i. :&£: i_i:

£~v»j, w wuiji noc reconcile it to himself 2L^l*i"t a J ,TOto question, Which he looked upon as4em«rtimpoSt everdiscußsed within those walla. WS. tended to vote for the resolution* becaua, thev pointed to and provided for the iv,T\l n fact * he onl y means of getting out of the great finanoial difficulties by whicE thejr were now surrounded-(Oh !)--which were looming larger and larger daily, and W *°S d <^ tu s«» *°, do «o «o long IT^ 0 * auaxda were administered and controlled by one central Legislature. Against the proposed policy of the Government, he would support the resolutions, inasmuch as the former denudes Ofeuw of somewhere about L 200,000-(" the Government benohes)-in addition to the large contobutions it now provided towards the Colonial funds. The practical effect of I that policy would be to abstract from Otaeo close upon L 200.000 a year more than wL now abstracted. On the other hand the policy indicated by the resolution, if given effect M^™ 1 ? 1 forthe ota K° Proportion of the Colonial debt, would allow of Ihe re. Venuesof the Province being expended within its own territory, and he hoped under its own control That of itself was sufficient justihcataonforhis adopting his present action N ? * o « bt J 18 Yovli be told he was a narrowl minded JProvonoialist and all that am* *t

thing. It might be so, but the revenues 3 Otago were far more important «&»» •«« segment. Moreover, lef™ \ ,£&& they were * not propoifcg to disunite SJ Colony-nawtyofthe c&y was Ha«iinal point. fSS'iS? h ° ?*! not *» sacrifioe LmOOOyearly for even a united.Colony.(Loud >< OV and cheers.) He wouldnot trouble the House by attempting to unravel the tangled skem of the Colony'sSl which belonged more to experts, un^ hinwelf. One great advantagee that would result from the resolutions* was Sat £* account* of the Colonywould bedmpu! fied, so that a man of ordinarv com™rf£n sion would be able to^Sff^* 2«lfv b6U :B J » memi ><* of » select com. mitbM whub m* diuiqg the whole 6 earioi attempting to understand the then stete of the accounte of the Colony as then existing/ but they couTd make nothing of it. From that traeftptbJt, year by year, the aocounts of the CofcnyEX

torn fitting more complicated, until now hj« questioned very much if, with the exoeption of the officers of the Treasury, there were many men in the Colony who could understand them. He confessed that though from his boyhood he had been accustomed to deal with figures on a large scale, he had not been able to understand the Colonial accounts readily. All he could find out was that the ordinary revenue of the Colony for the past financial year, exclusive of loans and Treasury bills, was 1.1,700,843; but it was slightly more difficult to discover what the ordinary .expenditure was. It had been estimated variously. All he could make out was that for the past year, independent of public works and immigration, it amounted to L 2,075,000; and it would thus be seen that the ordinary revenue fell short of the expenditure by L 363,000. That was a very alarming matter, and one which deserved serious consideration. There were three ways of getting out of it : first, by adding to the taxation of the country ; second, by putting their hands into the purses of Canterbury and Otago; third, by retrenching on a scale adequate to our requirements. The second alternative commended itself to the Government, and appeared to be their solution of the difficulty; while his solution of it was the last. His reason for supporting the resolution was because he could see no other mode whereby we can obtain an adequate amount of retrenchment. The House as at present constituted could not retrench to the necessary extent. Both sides of the House must admit that the Colony was living very largely beyond its means, and under those circumstances it would not be unreasonable to dispense with existing luxuries—at all events there was no need of going in for further extravagance as was being done. They were not content with existing luxuries but must create new de.artments in all directions, such as Inspectors - General of forests, .prisons, lunatic asylums, and he did not know what besides. Retrenchment was a word that found no place in the colonial vocabulary. In 2?ew Zealand they had a remarkable inverse of the parable of the prodigal son—instead of the son wasting the substance of his father by riotous living it was just the reverse: it was the father, in the shape of the Colony, that was wasting the substance of the son. (Cheers.) It was not conie it with wasting the substance of one son, but it takes that of the whole nine. The only thing the sons could do now was to take to a large extent the management of the State into their own hands, cut down the old gent's establishment, and let him commence anew upon a frugral and equally efficient scale. If the policy embodied in the resolu tions is giveneffecttoitwillcausealarge saving in the cost of the legislation of the Colony, which, as now existing, costs L 35.000 yearly, and that amount would be largely increased —probably doubled—when the whole business hitherto performed by the Provincial Councils came to be dealt with by the House. To his mind it was abundantly clear that with local legislation in each Island the work of legislation would be much better done and be not near so costly as now. He took the Provincial Council of Otago as a fair criterion of what the provincial legislature of the Middle Island should cost. Forty-seven members with travelling expenses, honorarium, printing, and all expenses,, came to L 40.000 a-year. If he mistook not L 3.800 last year was the cost of the Otago legislature, which was quite capable of legislating for the whole Middle Island.— (Laughter.) [The remainder of our report is held over.]