PARLIAMENT.

Evening Star, Issue 4195, 7 August 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

[Br Telegbaph.]

SEPARATION DEBATE.

Wellington, Augnst 5. On meeting at 2.30 yesterday afternoon the debate was resumed by

Mr Rees, who referred at once to the Premier's remarks in reply to Sir G. Grey, and said he was Burprised,at>.them, for: they were always the same in substance, being merely the old speeches broken up and, rearranged. The Premier said the member for the Thames was a visionary, but let him look back upon his own political career and say whether there had ever been such an author of visionary .schemes.' What a visionary scheme was that of the way to pay off the National Debt of England. He* wondered how the Premier could refer, to Sir G. Grey as he did to one so much his intellectual superior-j was.surprised how the Premiei could have blinded the House and people of the* Colony to : his deficiency, as a statesman or debater. He Could not account for it, unless he had thrown a glamour them. Two years' ago he ;(Mr llees) published. a little pamphlet, and the statements, therein made liad~ never . yet been contradicted by the -Premier or any of his followers. As to the hon. members who were going to vote for the resolutions, but who would cut off their right hands sooner than see Sir George Grey in power—he challenged that hon. gentleman to name a single member who had given any intimation to that effect. Sir George Grey was asked

why lie did not proceed at once against the Government by a Bill of Impeachment, but ht (the Premier) ought to know, if he did not, that according to law that could not be done. The member for Thames had.been twitted with' a so-called inconsistency be*, tween h^ and was asked why he did not admit he was all wrong then. But would it not be as pertinent toiask the'Goverhnient why they raid not come to the House, and say—" Gentlemen, we have enjoyed an enormous expenditure, and promised to bring great prosperity..about, [but we regret that, wehave of 'our promises, and have broken, every Addressing himself to the resolutions thjsnv; selvetj Tfche hon gentleman- said.-,ho agreed .with for 'Waikato that !«mr finances-were so oonfused and involved Ijhia,t, it was almost impossible to understa|id-them,. He had, however, giveii great attention' & the fmahces <>f c the Colony, and> hie vhb pre-:

pareq. pc;,prove, mum tue treasurer a tjwwsmenir,was: ajbk>lutely mcorrect, and : did r not agree jwith tlie published figures of the Government 'themselves. He would- also prove' that sunless sojae pridpiptiemedy were adopted, the- most. serious financial difficulties must ensue. The hon. gentleman then proceeded to show that the Statement of the; Colonic Treasurer aadihe Statement of the Minister of Public last year did hot agree, at all; that" in fact there, wfere discrepancies of hundreds of thousands of pounds. Yet, notwithstanding these discrepancies, the totals were mostly made to come out the same He quoted from these documents to show that in respect to railways alone there was one discrepancy of L 400,000, The hon.gentleman then proceeded to criticise the Financial Statement of this year to show that the public accounts were not kept properly. He went copiously into the details, and inform-d • tlie House that the amount of income and expenditure showed the Colony was L 400.000 to the bad. So grossly wrong was the Statement that he found payments which should have been paid last year were passed over and put down to this year, and would have to.be paid. If members would compare the items of expenditure as put down in the Statement with the actual amounts recorded, they would find that almost in every instance the figures had been put down by mere guess work. They were about LIOO.OOO out in an expenditure of L 700,000. This ought to arrest the attention of the House, or, instead of being L 400,000 out, they would soon be L 500,000 out. By the end of the third quarter of last year, the last of the 14000,000 loan was exhausted, and ever. since the 31st' March they had. been using the balance of former loans, guaranteed and unguaranteed. The balance of L 1,400,000 which was shown in the Statement did not and could not; exist. There might possibly be half, but certainly not more. It was easy to put figures down, but how would it be when thev were unable to meet the drafts of the

Crown agents. The hon. gentleman then quoted at length from his pamphlet to show that the promises made by the Premier when he brought forward his Bcheme had all been broken, and that had the people of the Colony an idea that all those conditions would have been systematically broken, they would never have endorsed that glowing policy. He also quoted further from his pamphlet to show that all the predictions he had made then were borne out by results. According t© the" hon. gentleman's figures the Colony would owe L 25,000,060 by the time the Public Works scheme was completed, and the whole of the revenue would be required to pay interest and sinking fund. From all the so-called deposits in the Bank of New Zealand, not one single penny had been received by the Colony. Our whole system of finance was fallacious, the Statement illusive, and not meant to enlighten the people of the Colony as to our position. In fact, it made them think it better than it was. He took great exception to the estimated cost of Government in taking over the whole of the Provincial machinery. It was absurdly fallacious on the face of it. He regretted that the House did not appear to foresee that a great reaction would follow the completion of the Public Works. It was always the case after large public expenditure, and he cited the case of Canada before the establishment of the Domiuion of Canada. Yet tbere was not the slightest preparation for any such reaction in relation to the consolidated fund. He would impress on them the necessity for retrenchment in expenditure and for devising some means whereby the current expenditure would be met without increasing the enormous burden under which the Colony was beginning to stagger. The Premier deprecated an income tax, but he believed the

House would have to consider whether cr not some such tax should be imposed. It was clearly the fairest they could possibly hare recourse to. If the general public impression was any guide, they might make up their minds that the Colony could uotgoagain into the money market before 1877. As to the constitutional aspect of the case, it appeared to him that all the great advantages enjoyed by New Zealand entering upon the race of progress had been wasted, and the Government appeared to have become a mere Board of Works, and existed solely for the prosecution of public works and the introduction of immigrants. The Government surely had other duties to perform than these. If the Government had.teen carried on iu the proper spirit of government they would not have been compelled to have recourse to auch a disgraceful

measure as the Amend* ment Act of last, seamen. _' He* had no doubt that their itisebatpon uporahe new constitution wotild mbome*; in history, and he hoped no selfish ?ot unworthy motive" would animate theni In that discussion. The consequence bf the Government sinking into a Board of Works was the growth ;of a national selfishness, and in the Counties Bill, if' it were passed, they would sse each of the thirtynine Counties desiring to all it could for itself; because these communities had no eonscience. They were nauseated with the cry of Abolition—a cry that made him almost ashamed of his fellow-oreatures. What would Abolition do for them but sweep away their free and liberal institutions i The long and the ahort -of -Abolition was that the General Government saw the Provinces had money that was urgently, demanded by their needs, and they wanted to seize that. It waff quite a jssasonable pro-

posal to ask for each Island to work Out its iwn destiny. "He made bold to say that no Central Government in Wellington, could preserve the ..peace of the Colony. Little as Ministers knew of finance and public policy, they knew a great deal less of administration. Here was a Government that admitted it had given Way bo far to pressure as to 'spend a million and a-half not originally contemplated. Could confidence be placed in a Government that wduKL submit to such pressure T So".far' as ijtef,could ascertain, every department, of Government was mismanaged. In fact he doubted whether Sir JuUub Vojjel, - the* iTative Minister, or l>r Pollen hid any legal right to a seat in the Executive. The 'hd&. gentle* man referred to the action meat with regard to the Judges, and said that Sir G. Arney had been driven, off the Bench in order to place Judge Gillies fhere, and so get rid of a bitter political opponent. It had also been said—he did not know with what truth—that the present Minister of Justice was made a Minister with tTut view of being ultimately placed upon the Bench of Justice. ".-.■'

The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. - Upon resuming; at 7.30 p.m., -.■ •/* .- Mr Kees went on with hu*speech, speaking until nine 'o'clock, severely' Criticising the Ministry individually and collectively, accusing them of general mismanagement and reckless *n* such Igross misconduct of public affairs as {p> themquite of the TBtoUße. \ a Hb ' chrefiy the finances, thS administration of justice, and ,^M i had done the' same as the' Premier wl)2e -ie - wouloV have ...in t&e felon's dock. He accused Ministers and of hoodwinking jibe ytfhtih' itiiri •Jr«&pi*^' E<ifcftTn--Belves in power,-of^g^vmg 1 to , members and sna atoot>fjdving public wp^ /+ the 'purpose of gaining' .pofiticaT s'objrort, Is in the case of the. Central Pri^n• at Tir|naki and the public works at. that the hospitality r of the the way of balls and dinners, was given wi||. the same object. '. -•,;.,Jd Mr Waflon said, a member for*© cutlying distriot,iihat Abolition-was hauejEl with joy throughout his part of the couniqfa and he had come to that house in the hope of obtaining that measure of justice of'iwhich they had been bo long denied ;butj> one by one, he, saw his hopes vanish: The GoSnties Bill and the Fihipaicial Bill 'showed ObM the day of calamity had come upon the Colony, and yet it was proposed to. largely inoie&se the departmental expenditure. r The,jfion. gentleman then read several short exacts to show that the feeling of the out-districts was strongly opposed to the Counties ißill, which it was alleged wonld come into collision with Road Boards at every turn. ■-'■"' He, for pne, objected entirely to the subdivision of the consolidated : revenue. It was &kuu; it out of-one pocket and putting ifcginto another, and they must not expect itha-. such miserable lures would deceive: th« people of the' Colony. • The ■ Premier did. no! aaswer the statements of the member for th Thames; but indulged the .House with aaccount of his own services, and told then how the value of land was increased. Bu he ought to have also told them of therpoli tical railways that have been made, so that certain persons should be enabled to seT their lands to the Government for railway purposes. Another of the Premier's arguments was the threat that those whoyßup ported these resolutions would break tht Compact of 1856. But he could inform then that the Government had really fbrokeatha Compact. While he would vote far th, resolutions, he would hope the day was. no*, far distant when each Island of New Zealand would accept the boundaries nature: had given her. He pitied Auckland, robbejd of her prescriptive right to be the Empire City of the Colony, forced into a war against her will by Southern members, and ever, afterwards taunted by them with fomenting that war for her own private ends.

Mr Lusk said he was forced to speak en this occasion by the conduct of the Government, and not very creditable was it if j the Government and it supporters had not a word to say for themselves. If all the statements of the hon. member for 4ncklant East were to be accepted as a true bill, then it was a grievous pity it should be so. There could be no douDt that the times were so serious as to call for the most profound attention. There was no denying the extreme uneasiness and alarm that prevailed throughout the Colony in regard to the serious distress and evils that were looming ahead, and this feeling was largely the case in England, as was reluctantly admitted by the Premier. That was proof of what the people who'held the pursestrings felt, that the Colony must be checked in its race of extravagance. What had led to the alarm felt throughout the Colony? If.one asked members of the House who generally followed the Government, they would say it was due to the machinations of disappointed Provincialists. But there were other reasons why such a feelinc should be abroad at this tame.' This cry about Provincial extravagance and machinations was a worn-out ory->-the real cause of the depression of publie feeling and failure of public credit was extravagance. The expenditure in our public services, and notably in the Native and Defence Department, was a great cause for the uneasy feeling referred to. It appeared to him the progress of the laßt five years had been solely a progress in the art of borrowing and spending money. Itjappeared to him that the plan proposed by the Premier, as shown in the Counties Bill, was making the cure worse than the disease. It was the creation of thirty-nine bastard Provinces, which would crush utterly a country already groaning tinder its weight of Government. On the other hand, the proposals of the member for the Thames were simplicity itself,' and according to the natural configuration of the country. Thei e were those wno from conscientious motives would oppose the separation of the two islands, and he respected their prejudices; but he noticed that these people were apt to close their eyes to the arguments of common sense. It was not the biggest State that was the most prosperous and happy, and should it prove not to be possible to secure the prosperity of these two islands as a united Colony, he, for one would say that the happiness of the people was of far greater importance than'any' sentimental idea' about a united Colony. To those of the South Isliuid who Said -'You want to give us too great a portion of debt aiid yourselves too little, * f he would say

"Remember that we are more heavily weighted than yon are, and it is not at all improbable that we may take over a Native war." These resolutions might not be passed, still this was the acceptable time. It was not probable another attempt would be made, but in the meantime, should trouble overtake them in the North Island, the people of that part of the Colony would certainly not be likely to come again to the people of the South and offer that each undertake itß own responsibilities. Now wat the time when the South Island had some portion of their land fund left, and while adversity had not overtaken the North Island. Mr Fitzroy said he was reluctant to give a silent vote upon the question, but he had waited in vain for any information or details as, to how it was proposed to carry on the future legislation of the Colony. Under this proposed new scheme they had nothing but a mere skeleton given, and no explanations er arguments. The hon. member for Auckland East had addressed the House for four hours, but he did not afford a single piece of information. It was a case of allround hitting. It was the same with the hon. member for Franklin—he, too, went all round the compass, and concluded with a threat that if Canterbury did not take advantage of the offer, they would not hare another opportunity of doing so. Everything but how to carry out: Separation had been touched upon. . The greater portion of what they had heard related to the financial tod other proceedings of the Government. They had heard everything, indeed that : would be quite in place in dealing with a wantof confidence but nothing pertinent to what was under discussion. It would have been more becoming and more manly to have brought down a want of confidence motion, and to have fought it out at ■ once. When he was elected by his con-

stituents they approved of the proposals in the Abolition Bill; and if the Government could bring down any measures that would fall in with these proposals, he would feel bound to vote for them. Mr Thomson thought tbe silence of the Ministry showed that they distrusted themselves. They appeared to think that silence was golden, while speech was iron. The great objection to the member fM-jthe Thames was. that he had not sntereclWo details; but was it not wise in the member for the Thames in hot bringing down a; cut and dried Constitution! Was it not better to allow each island to decide what fonu its local-government should take ? He expatiated on the advantage of having a Parliament in each island instead of being cagedJn Wellington six months in the year discussing parish business. There were many things in one island that the representatives of the other crald not possibly know anything of, and this often, created feelings of irritation which could not exist if two large Provinces: cexiitJedjL ,1 JKnptiier:advantage was that' the Premier rtould not play off one part of the Colony against some other part. In referring to the administration of the present Government, he *aud they were known throughout the Colonies of the British Empire as most extravagant, and whoever succeeded them Would have' no bed of -roses. Mr Buttotn moved the adjournment of the . i '■■ M* Stout warned Ministers hot to treat the Opposition with the indignity they were pitting upon, them by not speaking, and by apparently instructing their followers not to speak fca reply to the Opposition ment& . . The House adjourned at 1 a.m.

ABOUT THE LOBBIES. IJfyom our Social Correspondent.) Wjsllington, August 5. At last evening's sitting Mr hees kept the floor for two hours, repeating the wildest assertions and saying all sorts of nasty things to a bare House. He said Mr Prendergast's elevation to the Chief Justiceship was the result ',f personal feeling, as had it not been for ill-feeling between the wife of a Minister and the wife of a Supreme Court Judge another gentleman—who from long service had aright to expect the officewould, have been appointed. While Lady Vogel and her family were in the gallery, he went an to say that Ministers were not only retained in office by bribing districts, but private hospitality was brought in as a means to an end : Sir J. Vogel's dinner party and his wife's entertainments being given with the sole object of purchasing political support. This statement wa3 received with hisses, mingled with some cheers from the Opposition. As a proof of his assertions, he was about to refer to a paragraph in the 4 Wakatip Mail,' which brought Mr Manders to his feet with an explanation that the paragraph in question had been taken from a private letter of his. He was sorry it had been printed, and it was bad taste to make it public; atill he endorsed what it sa ; d in'it.

All the speeches which followed were very commonplace, and were made to a thin house. Ministers seemed determined to observe uilence, and when an adjournment was moved Mr Stout showea how much the Opposition felt it. He said they considered themselves insulted, and he warned Ministers that the action would be bitterly resented. He referred to Mr Rees's speech as one of the best he had ever heard, while the «N. * n^^ characterises it as incomparable for ail that was low and unbecoming.