GENERAL ASSEMBLY

Evening Star, Issue 3587, 21 August 1874, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY

[By Telegraph.] Wellington, August 2\ In the House of Representatives last night, In reply to Mr Curtis, the Premier said, before finally deciding to run a fourth line from Blenheim to Canterbury, the department would try to secure a line from Nelson to Lyell by way of Richmond, and, if it, could be safely and permanently constructed it would establish direct communication be tween Ne'son aud the West Coast, and relieve the existing line considerably. The debate was resumed. —Mr H ebb said he was returned to the IL-usi as a thorough Provincialis*, but he had not been long there before he discovered the weak end of Provincialism, and its effect upon Colonial affait s in the House Ho had become firmly convinced that, whatev r might be done with the Middle Island, the Province* in the North certainly ought to be abolished. He could not see how the present proposal could possibly affect the Middle Island. So far they were merely asked to affirm a princi.de without becoming pledged to any details. The working out of the scheme could not be nlaced in better hands than those of the Premier. The question was creating very little interest in Canterbury.—Mr Swanson said it appeared that the] Assembly had the power to strangle the Provinces, and was determined to do so. The hou. member expressed his dissatisfaction with the Government f >r not keeping their word. They bad dropped the Education Act, after setting the Ministers of the Colony by the ears. They promised L60.0J0 for roads in the North ; promised that the session woald be held in Dunedin; promised to define the limits of the powers of Provinces ; bub failed to keep any of these promises. He objected to the abolition of the Provinces, because it would deprive the country of the services of many men of ability and local knowledge, who were very useful in the Provincial Counci's, but could not afford to leave their business to attend the General Assembly. He commented at considerable leng hj upon the loose manner of legislation. The Colony was largely indebted to Provincial Councils for the best leg elation of the Colony. The essence of the whole thing appeared to he, they were poor, and therefore deserved to be kicked. He spoke at considerable length to show the superior efficiency of Provincial Governments as compared with the General Government. As remarkable instances, he quoted the obstinate disregard of instructions by the Agent-General j the failure of the Panama line, and of the Webb, Hall, and Forbes contracts, to show that the Pro* vinces could not have d me worse, and migh 1 ; have done better. The real cause of the poverty of the Provinces was the way they were starved to death by the General Government. As an instance, if an offender was brought up at the Resident Magistrate’s Court and fined L 5, that went into the Colonial Treasury j hut if he was sentenced to a month’s imprisonment the Province was compelled to board and lodge him for the time. But for that House they would never have been cursed with a Native war, and the subsequent legacyof debt and bad feeling between the two races, and the growth of an expensive Native Department, which nesd never have been required. The whole secret of the difficulty was the financial breakers ahead. Cash would be wanted soon, and the Government was desirous of getting hold hf laud. He was quite certain' the time Would come when the much - talked of compact would be sent up the chimney like smoke, and he felt that on this matter public opinion Would make it»elf heard,' and- ho mistake.—(Applause.)—Mr Bryce said the last speaker thought Provincialism perfect. It had been urged by several members, and was practically admitted by Mr Sheehan, that Provincialism was the worst form of centralism. It was amply demonstrated by facta that all the out-districts were dissatisfied. It might he a surprise to the House and country that what had promised to be a calm session was disturbed by these resolutkms, but he deemed it a surprise in no other light. No other question had so often, come up upon which men’s minds were so long aud iirevocably made up. If there was need to discuss the question now—and the Government ought to he the best judges of that—they were perfectly justified in dealing with it at once. It was idle to say that they ha i to deal with public works, aud that alone. He maintained that the initiation of that policy was looked upon as a first step towards the abolition of the Provinces, and now, wh a tuey found that the Provinces could not drag along without charitable aid, it was high time to introduce a more efficient aud Its* humiliating system. The abolition of the Southern Provinces must speedily follow the abolition of the North, but that would arise solely because the South would find that the North was being better governed. Provincial Governments were doing nothing now which could nob be done better by local bodies. A great portion of the legislation of the House was caused solely by the Provincial Councils With their abolition, legislation would be aonai-

>n to argue f 00l his cxperienci of Provincial management Titov wove forced to admit that all such matters as education, police, and waste lands should be in the hands of the General Assembly alone.—-Mr White did not attach much importance to the resolutions. He felt certain nothing would oome of them. If it were possible for anything to come of them, the present Parliament could not give effect to them. Many new voting for the resolutions would oppose any measure based upon them. Although he would rote against the Government Upon this occasion, no one desired more to sea thorn remain in power, Hut he fe't still bound to s<y that, upon bringing down an important measure, the Government dfea't too much in sops. He would impute no improper motives to the Hon. members for Taranaki, who he noticed invariably followed the Government like a lamb. Fortunately three of them could not be made Government agents. If a proposal were brought down to disfranchise Taranaki, he would vote for it. He contended that this was a blow at popular government, but he would warn the Premier that, whatever was substituted, it roust not be Government nominees. He insisted that the root of the whole discussion was the Premier's anger at the speech of the member tor the Rutt, which absolutely disembowelled the Forests Bill. One great reason why the Government should not take over the Provinces of the North Island was that they had work enough already. If members wore desirous of a simplification of government, by abolishing the Provinces, why not push their arguments to a legitimate conclusion, and abolish the General Assembly? They had Julius Caesar; why a t have another Julius ? He was much afraid the House was encouraging the Government to u?e its immense powe*- tyrauically. He believed the Premier had mad'*. a great mistake, for which retribution would overtake him —Mr Reeves made a personal explanation. He said the charge agaimt him of being a Givernraent contractor, and that that bad influenced his action was utterly untrue. Ris finm had not contracted with the Provincial Government of Canterbury for several years ; and in consequence of this miserable charge he had instructed them that they should not tender for any provincial works.—Mr T. Kelly defended the Taranaki members from the selfishness imputed to them by the member for Rodney, whose idea of local government appeared to be to extmd the Province of Auckland to Cook’s Straits. It was aremarkable faob that all members from the out* districts of Wairarapa, Waikato, the Bay of Islands, Tauranga. and other remote places _ f settlement, were in favor of the proposal ihe hon, gentleman quoted statistics to ho tv that Auckland had been largely receiving colonial aid for the last seven years, that so far from being wiping to tax for local services, a howl was raised against doing so on behalf of the sick and imbecile, 1 his was a sufficient answer to the assertion that the General Government had first starved and then desired to kill it. -Mr Rairieon opposed the change. It was too important to make in such a sudden and inconsiderable manner, without having given any intimation of such intent, and without the slightest public pressure. To use the Premier’s own words, it was easy to pull down, but not so easy to build up. He opposed it also because of the experience he had had of another legislative experiment, and which he,*for one, endeavored to make a success. The hon. member quoted from the speech of the Premier when moving the second reading of the Westland Province Bill, to show that he did not think one system was cheaper than the other. Nelson and Westland were practically in the same state as Auckland and Taranaki. They had to come to the Treasurer for a dole of money, but in the case of Westland its poverty was solely due to the Assembly giving them a capitation instead of a share of the consolidated revenue. Westland lost at one full swoop H5.000 a year, while Canterbury gained L 23,000. Because the resolutions were premature, and did not gp far enough, he would vote for the previous qne tion.--Mr Jackson would vote for the resolutions, as best for the Colony and the .North Island. In particular, speaking for lm own district, the resolutions would not affect it one way or the other. His district had been solely uud r the control of the General Government for a long time—he must say to the general satisfaction— much more than would have been the case had the management been in the hands of the Provincial Government. He had beard that Provincialism jpunfied|the atmosphere of the House. His experience had been that it was practically, “You vote for my Land Bill, and I will vote for your railway 1 —Mr Richardson referred to the difficulty o'-casioned to the General Government by the Superintendents, and quoted the words of the Superintendent of Otago, in which, he s*id, if p the public* works policy failed, it would he solelv due to the obstruction of such men as of Canterbury, Nelson, and Auckland. The short time the member for Selwyn was in office must have made him perfectly aware of the nature of this obstruction ; in fact, the Government could not move without first carefully considering how it would affect this or that Superintendent. Referring to the figures adduced by the hon. member for Wftikouaiti, he assured the 'House they were utterly unreliable ; he only Wondered where \ “® hon - r member got them up to 30th June, 1874. The cost of supervision and office works upon the expenditure of L 2,000 000 excepting 1,40,000, had not been 2* pero nt! As to money squandered in the North (Auckland) ho would say that, for L 2.000 actually spent by the Government, there had been constructed thirty-six bridges, with spans thirty feet, and averaging lOOffc. long. There were twenty smaller bridges, and, though the works were somewhat of a patchwork nature, they extended over 460 miles of road.’ The General Government was quite able to make a pound go as far as the Provincial Government, When members ta'ked of reducing the capitation tax from L2 to ISs, he understood Government had offered its services to equalise the difference. As to preraatureness of the resolutions, he could not but notice that the strong feeling was that Provincialism ought to be done away with. He knew that was the feeling in Canterbury. In every Province in the Colony he found that the general opinion among persons in the best position to judge, no matter what Government was in power. The question would have to he dealt with regaiding the North Island, at least. So long na the ■oath could take care of itself, she was not likely to have her institutions changed. The debate adjourned at midnight. In the Legislative Council to-day,

The Colonial Secretary, in reply to a question by the Hon. Mr Waterhouse as to what steps were being taken with regard to telegraphic communication with Europe stated that recently the agent of the Co’ vernment of New South Wales had inti, mated that the contract had been received. On the motion for the second reaclimr of the Highway Boards Empowering Bill being brought forward, Mr Williamson pro. posed as an amendment that the Bill bo a second time that day six months. A discussion ensued, and the amendment was earned on a division by 33 to 2. The Licensing Act Amendment BUI was read a second time, and considered in corn, mittee, and an amondmnnt to clause IS by the Hon. Waterhouse, restricting the grant, ing of licences to the general meeting tb ki

held in the mouth of June in each year, was carried by 16 to 13. It. clause 15, 28 days’ notice was substituted f * 21 days’. e ous ® of Representatives, Mr J, E. Brown resumed the debate ou the abolition resolutions, and welcomed the resolutions as a boon. He said it would sweep away the curse of the Colony, that never had been and never would be a local Gov foment, and promote noity of feeling amongst the people and homog. mty of legislation. If remote and interior settlements of the Colony wire to be done justice to, they must get local machinery and localisation of revenue, •lo was prepared to give instances to show that in the Province of Canterbury the Provincial authorities could not go on with the work of constructing bridges ousting L 3 000 up to works costing L 140,000, without seeking the advice and assistance of the t olouial Government, which was having engineers constantly tranelling round at the request of the Provincial Legislature. A great argument in favor of the resolution was, that it would place large natural questions like the Education Act and the control ©f the waste lands, in the hands of the Colonial Government. The finance of Provinces threatened to subvert the financial position of the Colony, Last session the burrowed . oan Bills, brought down by the Provinces pressed the Treasurer on all sides, Fortuuately the wisdom of the other House saved them. It was noticed that the Provinces which had squandered their land for 2s 6d or 5s an acre constantly came down to the House for assist nice. The sole reason why the South Island was bettor able to carry on her public works than the North was because she husbanded her laud. If Provincial members were only ready to give up personal power for the welfare of the country, the wisdom of the resolutions would be admitted; but they could not do that while they looked through Provincial spectacles. It was st’ange. that the New Zealand set lements could not manage their roads in the same way as the large towns in Victoria and New South Wales, which had roads radiating 300 and 400 miles in the intenor managed by local Boards. He came to the House an ultra- rovincialist, but had nob been long there before he was compelled to change his views. The hon. gentleman quoted resolutions brought forward in Canterbury to reduce the power of the Superintendent and Council, nnd assimilate it to lioadl Boards, to show that the people could not have been stunned by the proposal to abolish the Provinces. It was not true that the General Government had undermined the Provinces. The first blow to them was the Consolidation of Loans Measure, 1867, and u that did not fill their measure, the Public Works Act, 1870, ought to have done so. He warned the South Island members that by voting for the question they would have to answer to their constituent*. Were not the speeches of the North Island members indicative of an intention that they would not respect the land fund of the South island* if t hey had the power to take it f Was not the theatrical d splay of the hon. member of Gnehuuga also a sign that that was the secret dagger all the time he was iu the vimiatry to aim at the feoqth, if ever he had a chance? The moment the opportunity was taken from him, by the proposals of the Tremier, he retired He ridiculed the idea of the economy and efficiency of Provincial ms clement and referred the House to numerous works inthe North and .South Islands Co show lamentable mismanagement. The Northern Provinces were now powerless to do any good. It was time the General Government took them over, and their lands, to form them into a united whole. He hoped, if the resolutions were not carried they would soon have an opportunity of ascertaining the opinion of the county.—Carrington supported the resolutions, though ho wquld not vote fora Bill giving effect to the resolutions if it did not secure peifeclly local control and protection of local revenue. In justice to the Government, he felt bound to state that m administering the rather crippled affairs of Taranaki, he bad received every consideration and aid which he could expect from the Government.—Mr J. Shephard favored the resolutions, and controverted the remarks of the hon. member for Selwyn. Ho thought a change was at length desired m Nelson. The hon. gentleman proceeded to combat the arguments regarding the inopportmiencsi of the proposal, the hostility of the people to it, superiority of provincial adminiatr -tion, and other objections. The great mistake which was made was in creating a valuable estate and handing'its control over to others than thorn who raised the money. The hon: member gave details showing that great economy and efficiency iu the administration was to be obtained in the North t aland by consolidation He regarded the security offered by the South Island as to the compact as something worth baying :*the security givi n by statute was much greater than by resolutions, and required the assent of both Houses to revoke it. He did not think the business of the House would be in the least degree increased if the consolidation of the Provinces was effected It was unworthy of intelligent representatives to fear to face so important a problem, by voting for the previous question.—Mr Taiaroa would vote for the resolutions. The I rovinces in the South Island should be abolished. The Superintendents often threw disunities in the way of the General Govern, ment when dealing with Native questions. I hero should be a Governor for each island. The South Island manta n talked of their laud ; they forgot they had not paid for it properly.—Mr o’Ne.iU said that for seme time ho bad boon in favor of some change ift tho government of the Colony. It was not only out-diati iota that favorxM the change—t hoir dissatisfaction was exceeded hy that of the gold field districts. And this had been tho ease years ago in Otago. He would vote for the resolutions, but not with such heartiness he should if they embraced the whole Colony. In that respect the motion wanted boldness and statesmanlike reliance on the wants aud wishes of fte uetonja. Lhepe was evident fear for'ihe rich Provmces in one respect. If the carrying of the resolutions were to have a good effect in sweeping away Provincial boundaries, it might lead to an adjustment of the representation, and do some justice to the Thames constituency. The Seat of Government and Compact questions had nothing to do with the question at issue, and should not hare been introduced.

The debate was then adjourned at the refreshment hour.

Ou the House resuming. Sir Craorofl Wilson waved Ins right to speak. A dime* was called for, with the following result f—. For the resolutions, 41; against them. Id. Fairs—For resolutions ; Messai* Ingles, 0. W, Parker, T, L, Shepherd, and Carrington. Against: Messrs Brandon, Murray, J. I, SS son Ayes : Messrs MH pan. BUndshalS W Gibbs, Jackson, a. Luokte. steward, Mowk\ Mervvn, iox, Cuthbertsou. Tube, di-ew, Stafford. Studludme, yS; a a N ' ***\ * a\*C2*W son. hoes \ Mmre Jr, CvSSh ™e* Messis <VKe*h%.