THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3306, 24 September 1873, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Electric Telegraph.]

Wellington, September 23.

At a fall meeting of Ministerial supporters held to-day, a resolution was come to to reduce the Provincial loans to a total of L380.00P, to be expended between this ami Ist January, 1875. the money to be expended in preliminary surveys and necessary works: Otago to get LIQ,UOO. Wellington gpts too largest share. The Opposition assert that tl;ey had a majority on the Pro vjncial Loans Bill last night. Seven Loan Bills were introduced to-day, vis , The Otago Loans Empowering Bill for Joan of L 310,000 5 the Wellington Loan Bill, for L 175.000 ; tho Otago Land Ordinance Bill, for L30l),000 ; the Nelson Loan Bill, for LI 10,000; the Marlborough Loan Bill, for L 21.000 ; the Auckland Loan Bill, for L 245.000 ; the Haw'ke’s Bay Loan Bill, for L 210.000. In the House to-day, Mr Vogel moved the question of Mr Webb’s penalties. He explained that Mr Webb was originally liable, but he had sold his interest to a company'. He admitted his liability, but was not now in a position to pay the penalties. It was not usual to inflict penalties, excepting in the case of a fault. The new' contractors were not Burnside and Scott, but were in some way connected with Mr Hall, and if pressure were put ou Mr Webb, it would prejudice the new contracts. The penalties amount to LI(),uO() The question was either to exonerate Mr Webb, or to leave the matter over for some time. The latter course would risk the amount. The Government would do what the House wished, but they suggested that it should give Ministers a discretion in the matter. Advices from New York a dd that while the money was recoverable, Mr Webb would resist paying. If the House decided to enforce the penalties, the fear of a law suit would not stop the Government. —Mr Macandrew thought the penalties should be remitted. Ho moved the previous question.—Mr T. B. Gillies quoted a letter from Mr Vogel to Mr Webb, complaining of the service, and urged the infliction of the penalties.—Mr Kolleaton expressed similar views.—Mr Fox spoke in favor of the remission ot the penalties. He Said the United States were more likely to grant a subsidy to the hew line if the Colony acted generously. The matter Was not like one of mere buying and selling.—Mr Steward supported enforcing the penalties, as the other course would bo a bad precedent for other contractors. Afterwards, perhaps, Mr Webb might be recompensed for extra services if such had been performed.—Mr Stafford said the' Government having brought: the matter before Hip House were entitled to an expression of opinion. If it could believe all Mr Webb’s letters, it might think tit to remit the penalties. Probably Mr Webb started

the service before he was ready, thereby incurring loss. This might establish a reason outside the actual question why it was advisable to remit the penalties. He would move a motion to the effect that the House is not at present aware of the reasons for the remission of the whole of the penal* ties, but desires to await farther information before deciding. -Mr Johnston said that except during the last few months Mr Webb had not tried to carry out the Service. The boats did not run to San Francisco, the Service was not done in the stipulated number of hours, and the sureties were not furn shfd. Me preferred the motion proposed by Mr Stafford.--Mr Macandrew then withdrew his amendment. —Mr Vogel said he would accept Mr Stafford’s amendment.— Mr T. B. Gillies thought the House should definitely express its opinion, and therefore he moved that the penalties be enforced.— Mr holies ton said Mr Stafford’s motion inferred more than it said, and yet gave no answer. He would support Mr Gillies’s amendment. —Mr Cuthbertson supported the enforcement of the penalties —Mr Sheehan urged the matter being left alone, as being the more prudent course. If a lawsuit were commenced, it might be carried on for many years at great cost, and at last the Colony might not recover the penalties.—Sir J. G. Wilson thought Mr Webb the last contractor who should be treated leniently.—Mr Brandon supported Mr Stafford’s amendment.—Mr Reid explained that he was not in favor of the remission of tbe penalties, though he was not prepared to go the length of Mr Gilhes’s amendment. He would at the proper time propose as an amendment, that the matter be left to the discretion of the Government.—Mr Webster was in favor of the matter being left to the Government. —Mr Vogel said the House should decide as to the remitting of the penalties, and the Government would then decide as to entering on a law suit. The course proposed by Mr Stafford was a good one. Mr Webb had had many expensive misfortunes, and the contract was originally a bad one for him. Mr Stafford’s amendment was eventually carried.

On the question being proposed that the House in the evening take np the Provincial Loans Pills, Mr Tolmie said that the Colony and the Provinces were going too fast. It was not probable they would get the money. The Loan Companies would not take their debentures, while they were borrowing in London at the same time. If the Banks bought them they would do so to asll them lu London, aud the same power as before would be used. To consolidate the amount of borrowing, Provincial and Colonial, for a year, would amount to L 3,800,0 )o.—Mr Rolleston concurred m the remarks of the last speaker. He dwelt on the dangers following reckless borrowing, and an extravagant policy, —The motion was carried. Mr Tolmie gave notice of a motion that daring the recess the Government make the preliminary arrangements necessary to secure a modification of the existing laws, with a view to their consolidation during the next and following sessions. In the Council, Mr Miller moved that on account of Canterbury and Otago receiving such a large land revenue, they should construct their own railways. It would be advantageous for them to do so. Danger existed that the railways would only be half completed, and then the wealthy Provinces would have to bear the burden of the whole railway system.—Dr Pollen said the Provinces would not undertake the responsibility.—Captain Fraser said it would not bo advisable for the Provinces to enter on new works, as the immigration system had broken down. There was not sufficient labor for the works now going on.—The motion was withdrawn.

The Treasury Bills Extended Currency Bill was read a second time.

The Colonisation Company’s Bill was discharged. The Otago Loan Empowering Bill provides that certain lands may be set aside on security for a loan of L3OU,OO>, but only LIO,OOO is r.o be raised up to the end of .December, 187-L The Provincial Legislature is empowered to pass a Loan Act for certain purposes. Interest and principal are not to be made payable beyond Australasia, and the Colony is not to be liable for Provincial loans. The Provincial Loan Ordinance is not’to give security over tuo ordinary revenue. The proceeds of the lauds mentioned iq second schedule are to be applied to the piymentof the money raised- All proceeds of the sale of land are tp go tq the Loan account. Fifteen per cent, of the land fund i* payable to the Loan account. Except the gold revenue, moneys at the credit of the Loan account are not subject t<* appropration, No moneys at the credit of the Loan ac? count are to withdrawn, except under warrant signed by the Superintendent of the Province. The Provincial Auditor is tq certify. He is to have power, under the Provincial Audit Act, 1866, and thq Amendment Apt. The Provincial Auditor is to be guilty of a misdeameanoqr if h° unduly certifies any warrant, except iq accordance with the Act If the error is unintentional, the Provincial Auditor is to hip liable for the amount wrongly withdrawn from the account. If the ' qperintendeqt re: fuses or neglects to make or sign a warrant: authorising the issue of the money out pf the Loan account, for the payment to any person of any sum to which he is entitled, the person interested may apply to the Supreme Court. Debentures issued under the Provincial Ordinances are not liable to stamp duty. The Ordinance is to fix the maximum rate of interest and discount. The terms authorised are not to include a higher rate of interest than six per cent, on the moneys realised. The debentures are to bear a notice of the non-liability of the Colony. The Provincial Ordinance is to be reserved for the Governor’s assent. The Ordinance is not to accept existing securities. The first schedule is for the construction of a railwayfrom Tuapeka to Duustan, a distance of sixty miles, at an estimated cost of L 300.000. The second schedule includes all those waste lands of the Crown lying parallel to and within a distance of ten miles from each side of the Tuapeka and Dunstan railway, throughout its whole length, estimated to contain 75,000 (?) acres.

In the correspondence from the AgentGeneral this evening laid ou the table, Dr Featherston says on June 13 ;—“ If it is intended to be an absolute instruction to allow IS clear superficial feet to each statute adult instead of 15, as provided by the Passenger Act, 1855, I can readily comply; but I would point out that Her Majesty's Emigration Commissioners, after an experience to which I presume the Hon, Mr O’Rorke will not pretend, have fixed 15 feet as an ample provion. I need not add that to carry' out the Hon. Mr O’Rorkc’s suggestions would in* volve a very serious extra cost'to tha Government, as it wohld materially reduce the capacity' of vessels for’ the 1 conveyance of emigrants,” Referring ! to Mr O’Eorke’s instructions, he says:—“ Had no such restrictions been imposed, the number of emigrants despatched would have been considerably greater, and the delay in withdrawing the instructions in question will, I fear,' materially' interfere wfth my sending out the aggregate number of immigrants ordered in your ' last despatches.’’ On ‘ July ’ 12 he writes:—“ Merchant after merchant has come Home for the express purpose of making arrangements with some otner firm, but the result has always been that they come to terms with Messrs Shaw, Sayill, and Cq. I am not, of course, justified iu giving names, but the fact is sufficiently notorious. The first thing the representative of the A,uck*

land Freight Company did was to *ait upon Messrs Shaw* Savill, »nd Co., and propose that they should combine in raising the rates of freight to Auckland by some 20 of 25 per cent. —a proposal to which Messrs Shaw, Savill, and Co. acceded, but which I prevented being carried out as far as the Government was concerned. Mr Turner, the agent of the New Zealand Shipping Corauany, had not been many weeks, or rather days, here, before he also felt if. necessary to enter into a written agreement with Messrs Shaw, Savill, and Co. in regard to the rates of freight. Here, again, it was attempted to charge the Government 30s per ton for railway plant, instead of 25s a ton, which I had hither to paid. Mr Turner has been obliged to charter a ship from Messrs Shaw, Savill, and Co., and he finds considerable difficulty in chartering the number of vessels he reauirea. I understand further that proposals have been sent out by Mr Turner to the New Zealand Shipping Co. to buy up Messrs Shaw, Savill, and Co.” On July 9, Hr Featherston writes :—“ As to coal miners, I held several meetings in the town of Merthyr, and received about thirty applications; but could hear of no coal miners wanting employment ; and so prosperous and well paid were all the colliers about Merthyr, Doylass, Tredegar, and other places in the neighborhood, that the terms I had to offer them appeared to be without attraction. 1 he Welsh are a very reticent people, and I had the greatest difficulty in inducing some of them to state what wages they were really earning. However, from other reliable sources (viz., the pay-sheets) 1 learnt that there were hundreds of colliers making from 12s to 14s per diem, and the majority about 7s p«-r day of eight hours.” On July 10 Messrs Bhaw, Savill, and Co., wrote to the Agent-General as follows : has entered into a contract in the Colony with the New Zealand Shipping Company for the conveyance of all their emigrants for the remainder of the present year under the conditions of our contract for last year, at LI 4 10s per adult. e are at a loss to understand for what fault of ours the Government has taken the arrangement of such matters out of your hands and given their emigration business to a new company direct at an increased price, and under a contiact much less onerous than the one under which we have lately been working. We make no comment, but simply beg to state that, in the event of the Government feeling inclined at the conclusion of their present contract with the Shipping Company, to authorise you to conduct the emigration from this side on the best terras to bo obtained, we shall be prepared to tender for their pmjgrants at the rate of Ll2 12s per adult, if under such a contract as we had last year, or at the rate of Ll3 10s per adult, if under a contract similar to the one we have had this year.” Dr heatherston telegraphs to Mr [Reynolds, unde? date London, September 4, as follows Sailed — August—Denny, Wellington, 157 souls ; Jlovjngdejm, Napier, 269 souls ; Chili, Auckland, 85; Cardigan Castle, Canterbury, 252 ; Headman and Zealandia, Otago, 417.” r a . In the House last night, the Standing Orders about reference of the Land Bills to the Waste Lands Committee were suspended for the remainder of the session. The Hawke’s Bay Loan Ordinance Empowering Bill was read a first time. —Mr Ormond moved its second reading.—Mr J. E. Brown opposed the Bill’s principle and the action of the Government. —Mr Pyke said the Government had abandoned the principle on which they had staked their existence. It was useless to oppose the Bill, for the Superintendents were banded together.— He placed bis protest on record. He did not object to the Bill, if the principle that land was to pay for works was included. Mr Reid blamed the Government for causing the Wf rst log-rolling ever witnessed in the House. The unanimity was wonderful. It was not due to principle but to rapacity. Borrowing should be done by the Government, and we had better wait a year.—Mr Webster said the proceeds of the land should be devoted to improving internal communication, !ot to making harbor work?, Mr ohnston objected to Provincial revenues eing pledged. In committee he shoulu piove amendments accordingly. The Provinces might give security on uharf dues.— Sir J. C. Wilson ppposed the Bill Mr T. B. Qillics opppsed it alsp, Hp argued, that the Government hqd robbed % Provinces year Wyp&rpjtfceif revenue, and the Provinces pOW l(t"d a right to dem ai) d that the Colony should borrow for necessary to complete the Colonial policy, which had been thrust on the Provinces. The Government shifted the works on to the shoulders of the Provinces because they did not dare face the alternative of taxation. fie would have puppprtpd the Government B they had proposed additional taxation. The rating plauses of the old Bill were its best features.—Mr Tphnie moved apamendment, it is inadvisable to permit the Frovinpes fp bprrow nponey apart from the Colony.— The Premier replied, and dwelt op the arf•Vantage the various Provinces derived from expenditure. The proposals limited borrowing for tim year tp L 280,000. The cry of high wages was nothing. The principle that the Colony must borrow for the Provinces had been and would be rejected immediately, if applied to gaols,—Mr Gillies, while opposing the principle set down by the Government, had introduced a Bill based on it. That was a sample of the opposition the Government had to meet. Ministers had not changed their front. The Bills before the House'were the same as originally passed. Regarding the argument of Colonial liability, two-thirds of the Provinces would he able to meet their liabilities, and others could be dealt with separately. If their railways were in a forward state, he was not certain that the Colony would not borrow for them.—Mr Fitzherbert said the question was not of works, but money, and how it was to be got. The Provinces must do the Works or be abolished. He argued against the Colony borrowing for the Provinces, and said it would be a reuewal of the old objectionable system of Provincial charges, and would result in reckless extravagance. He defended Government in the position taken up regarding the Uf ptrHouse, and hoped to see the Council elective. Messrs Collins, Murray, and J. K Brown opposed the measure ; Messrs J. L, Gillies and White supported it.—Mr Sheehan condemned the Provinces being driven into the money market. —Mr T. B. Gillies explained that the Bill he had framed was totally different from the one before the House.—Mr Ormond relied.—The amendment was lost, and the second reading of the Bill carried by 42 to 14, T|ie following Bills were read a first and second time and committed, and progress reported immediately without discusfiion;_Tbe Loan Ordinance Empowering Bills for Auckland, Marlborough, Wellington, Otago, Nelson, and Taranaki. The Legislative Council have abandoned the amendment made by them in the floatage of Timber Bill. (rilOM OUR SPECIAL COS RESPONDENT.) September 23. At a meeting of Government supporters this day to consider the policy of the Government rp Provincial borrowing, and tne an iagpnistic relations of the two branches oi the Legislature, the supporters of the Government endorsed the action of the Ministry both past and contemplated.—Mr Vogel made a short statement j Mr Fitzherbert

approved of the policy indicated, and Mr Macandrew followed. —Mr Harrison proposed, and Mr Carrington seconded a motion approving of the Act of the Government. —L280,000 is the amount the Provinces are allowed this year to borrow. The allocation was not stated by Mr Vogel in the meeting. 'he Bills wiil be passed, if possible, and sent to the Tipper House this evening. People here say, in reference to the petition presented by Mr Reynolds, in connection with the Mussel Bay railway workshops, that it was intended to make it the workshop for the whole of the N'iddle Island; but it appears Otago wants the workshop for itself alone. Well, Otago shall have it; and the other Provinces shall have similar establishments.

In the Upper House this day, on Mr Miller’s motion re Canterbury and Otago being allowed to expend their own moneys. Dr Rollen spoke strongly against the measure. He could see no reason for entertaining the proposal at all. Captain Fraser only half-supported the motion. Mr Bonar said he hoped it would bo witbdrawnn, and this will be the result. The Upper House will most probably deal with the Loan Bills on their merits, considering each Bill separately. The best informed hesitate to predict what course will be adopted. 1 believe the Loan Bills in the Upper House will be thrown out. Mr Sewell and Mr Waterhouse, it is supposed, will rat when clauses are introduced and inserted in the Bills to make the Colony instead of the Provinces borrow.