THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3303, 20 September 1873, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Electric Telegraph.]

Wellington, September 19. In the House to-day, in reply to Mr Harrison, the Commissioner of Immigration said that if the facts complained of by persons at Greymouth who nominated immigrants were found, on inquiry by the Agent-General, to be correct, the local agent at Galway should be superseded. In reply to Mr J. L. Gillies, Mr Vogel said the Government rec ignised the desirability of the establishment of branch depots for immigrants. Messages from the Governor were received, recommending provision being made for leasing land for Ministerial residences in Wellington, and for a loan of L 750.000 for various purposes, and for the purchase of land in the North Island; and enclosing Immigration and Public Works Loan Act No. 2, and Civil List Act Amendment Bill. Mr Vogel moved that the question of Mr Webb’s penalties should be postponed till Tuesday. The Government were inclined to leave the matter alone till next year.

Mr Vogel said that he would make a Ministerial statement. The question would affect not only the financial proposals of the Government, but the relations between the two branches of the Legislature. The Provincial Loan Bill, which had been thrown out by the Upper House, involved the question of works being constructed out of borrowed money and by Provincial Governments, and the question by whom the money should be borrowed. The relations between the two houses were unsatisfactory. A radical change in the constitution of the Upper House was wanted by the country. Acting on this feeling, the Government had introduced into the Upper House a Bill to initiate a change. The Government acted according to Parliamentary etiquette, and out of consideration to the Upper House, and the measure should not have been rashly rejected. This showed that the Upper House could not deal at all with the question. If necessary, the Imperial Parliament will be appealed to on the question. The Council was imagined to represent the property of the Colony. This was a mistake. Members of the Lower House represented the property in reality. The Upper House was not similar to the House of Lords. The House of Lords represented landholders and large landlords. The members of the Legislative Council were large tenants. —Mr Stafford here interrupted, saving that under the guise of a Ministerial statement, Mr Vogel was making an attack upon the Upper House, without any one having a chance to reply.— Mr Vogel said that Mr Stafford, some years ago, proposed to swamp the Upper House.— Mr Stafford said that be would insist on standing orders being adhered to, if Mr Vogel continued importing debatable matter into his speech.—Mr Vogel said he would conclude, if necessary, with a motion for the adjournment of the House. He regretted that some opposed to the Government had taken a course which was in reality an attack on the Colony. Of course, the Upper House had a right to throw out the Bill. They had thrown out the District Courts Bill and the Provincial Loans Empowering Bill. This was an attack on the Government and showed a want of conciliation. The Government did not propose anything unconciliatory. The question was serious, and had been culminating for some time. The House weuld bo justified in using all constitutional means to give effect to the expressed wishes of a majority. A number of Bills had already nearly passed the House under the Provincial Loans Empowering Act. The Government propose that they should be made to stand alone, and give the Provinces power to borrow against 15 per cent, of the land fund. The question of who was to borrow remained. If the Upper House objected to the Provinces borrowing they were then brought face to face with the difficulty that for the Colony to borrow for the Provinces would embarrass the Government in borrowing for the Colony. The only course left was to form a special fund by means of a ta? on all property, whether leasehold or freehold. It was intended to omit the rating clauses of the Bill, Too much importance was attached to those clauses. The Bill of 1871 provided machinery for the Provincial Councils to borrow money for certain purposes, and such large powers were given by the Bill that the House could almost afford to allow the step taken by the Council to remain unnoticed. It was proposed that these Bills should go up ; and that the Government, while agreeing to their principle, should retain the right to consider the object and extent of the Bills. If not accepted by the Council, the Government would ask the Council to reconsider the first Bill in a modified shape. Another session might be necessary, but such would not be unconstitutional. There was nothing to prevent another session being held immediately after the close of the present one, or after an interval, hi e hoped that extra taxation would be unnecessary. He would move the adjournment of the House to enable members to speak.—Mr Stafford said the remarks of Mr Vogel were addressed so pointedly to him that he must speak. He objected to have the character thrust in him of an advocate of the Upper House in the present quarrel. He did not know a quarrel existed. The Upper House only exercised a constitutional right. The accusations levelled against the members of the Upper House, that they would not be elected as representatives, were unfounded —thirty-six having been repeatedly elected members of House, members of Provincial Councils, and Superintendents. If it were true, which it was not, that the Council mainly consisted of one class, setting the Sl§ against that one class was to be re;ed. Mr Vogel h»4 said he had threatened to swamp the Council with Armed Constabulary; such was not the oase. In 1865, he had been strongly urged to increase the members of the Council, but he refused. If the question of a reconstruction of the Council had to be considered, it should be done calmly, and not in ths beat of a disagreement with the Council. Regarding taxation, he had repeatedly said it was a necessary part of the policy ; but many who supported the policy had thought it could be carried out without putting their hands in their own pockets. He did not think taxation should be objected to or the policy objected to, on its account. It would tend to greater supervision of expenditure.—The motion for adjournment was withdrawn.—The Commissioners of Crown Lands Act 1866 Amendment Act was read a second time.

The report of the Committee on the Ministers’ Salaries Bill was brought up. It recommends that there should be only six Ministers.—Mr Tolmie gave notice of motion to introduce a Civil List Act Amendment Bill accordingly. The Crown Grants Act, 1866, Amendment Bill is now on.

September 20. Last night, the Commissioners of the Crown Lands Act, 1866, Amendment Bill, the Crown Grants, 1866, Amendment Bill, and the Henui Tareha Matangi Grant Validation Bill were read a second time. In Committee on the Commissioners of Crown Lands Bill, considerable discussion ensued over clause 2, whish removed the disqualification of Secretary of Crown Land to sit in' Parliament Ministers explained tha the object was to make the office a Minis terial one.—The Speaker, Messrs T. B Gillies Brandon, and Bo lies ton pointed ou that the object would not be gained by th Bill, but that it would enable a Muuste

acting as Secretary to hold it Mid retain hu seat in the House after he mighthave ceased to be Minister.—Mr O’Rorke 'warmly replied against that insinuation, and eventually a new c'ause was added approving that the Secretaryship should be beld by Ministers.—The Bill then passed, and was reported. The Crown Lands Bid and the Henui Grant Bill were read a third time. The Otago Hundreds Proclamation Validation Bill was read a second time without discussion. The Immigrants Land Bill was read a second time, after a few remarks by Messrs Murray, Rolieston, and the Native Minister. On the motion to go into Committee of Supply, Mr Murray moved that radical improvement is required in the administration of immigration. After a brief discussion, the motion was withdrawn, and the Estimate proceeded with. Class B, Miscellaneous, class?, Militia and Volunteers, passed. The New Confiscated Lands was postponed. The estimates chargeable on the Defence Loan were also passed. (from OI7R SPECIAL CORRESPONDS ITT.) It is possible that the Lords will hesitate ere they precipitate matters by throwing out the various Provinces Borrowing Bills. The Independent rates them well this morning. Many Ministerialists say the pressure of the Provincialists caused the introduction of the Loan Bill.

The session will be now possibly protracted a month.

The Select Committee on Ministers’ salaries will recommend that the number of Ministers shall be reduced to five ; that the Premier shall have L 1,754 a year, and the others L 1,250 a year, with L2 2s a day travelling expenses. The Brogden’s petition for relief of their immigration liabilities will not be recommended. Messrs Reeves, Richardson, O’Horke, Ormond, Macandrew, Rolieston, Fitzherbert, and others were against it; only Mr O’Neil in its favor. The Committee consider the firm have made out no case at aU.