PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
Friday, May 16,
Mr Duncan had not up to the present taken any great interest in the debate, hut would refer to the remarks of his colleague abqut going to the country, and asking it to decide upon a little difference between the Superintendent and a majority of the Council. He did not know of a single question, as between his Honor and the majority of the Couxxcil, that had not been before the House during the last three years. Two years ago, at the general election, it was a question of policy: one, in fact, of the settle • meat of the country, and the people returned for the purpose of deciding that question. The Council now stood in the same position as it did when it was elected; and it was a mere quibble to go to the country on a dispute between Ins Honor and the head of the late Executive —a dispute that arose outside the Province. If members would look back a little, they would see that the dispute had more to do with the Assembly than with the interests of the Px’Ovince. He referred to the Supexintendent’s refusal to convene the Council when requested so to do, xxot only by a majority of the House, but by members whose views were opposed to those (>f the majority ; and stated that, at the proper time," he w.ju|<i state his own views on the question of a dissolution, Speaking to the adjournment, he remarked that if he had gone into the real question, he would have found much stronger language than that in which the member for the Taieri referred to the member for the Peninsula. Even if he Ixad the ability to carry on the Government, from his interest in the Province and his position with a Duixedux house, it was not for the good of the country that he should be at the head of the Government, or hold a seat on the Waste Land Board. That was one reason why a majority of the House had no faith in him. The Provincial Secretary : Will the hon. member explain what authority he lias for stating that I am not capable of either having a seat on the Waste Land or any other Board, or from holding a seat on this bench ? Mr Duncan : The hon. member represexxted a City house with which the majority of the runholders in the Province were connected. Whether it was so or not, there was a strong feeling on the part of members that he should not be on those benches. Discussing the merits of the names that had been submitted to his Honor by Mr Reid, he remarked that Mr Green was a gentleman who had been a member of the Council for a considerable time: and the present Government thought w mw of him that they
submitted his name to the Superintendent for ipproval, He was not asked once, if he (Mr Duncan) was credibly informed; but the gentle nan at the head of the Government went to the -.rouble of calling upon him at_ his residence in •,he country, with a view of inducing him to take office along with himself. The Provincial Secretary': I was never at liis residence ; and his name was never submitted to his Honor the Superintendent. Mr Duncan then referred to Mr Brown. Prom what had been already stated in the House, they must believe that the member for the Goldfields (Mr Brown), after the Govern meat had almost failed to find a member to take die position of Goldfields member in the Executive, induced the Government to throw Mr 'hepherd overboard, and take the present Secretary for Goldfields into the Government. The Provincial Sec beta in*; I rise to say that Mr Brown is no friend of mine : I repudiate the insinuation. I never had anything to s -iy to Mr Brown in my life, except in another place, which it is unnecessary to name here. Mr Brown said, since his name had been men tioned, he wished to state that he had never been in communication with his Honor in reference to the appointment of any member of the Executive, Mr Duncan was very glad to get the information ; but distinctly recollected the question being asked the Government by Mr Shepherd whether it was correct that Mr Brown had recommended, on the present Government being formed, the appointment of Mr Bastings in place of himself as Goldfields member; but as it had been now answered, he was perfectly satisfied that Mr Shcpherdwasnot correct. Then there was Mr Stout. He hoped the Government would also be able to turn about and say that Mr Stout was not asked to join them. He was satisfied the hon. member for Cavcrsham was asked in the usual way ; and that his name was submitted to the Superintendent, find approved by him. If the Government had a«ked Mr Stout to join them, ivithout first submitting his name to his Honor, they had adopted a most unusual course. He was sure they would not thrust upon his Honor a person of whom he did not approve; and seeing that he was asked to join, he concluded his name met with his Honor’s approval. It seemed then an extraordinary thing how three at least out of the five submitted to his Honor had been rejected, Then the member for Invercargill (Mr Lumsden) had not in any way made himself so obnoxious to the Government, or taken such a strong side as would lead his Honor or any portion of the Council to suppose that he would not make a good, useful working member. Therefore, he failed to see, from any explanation the House had yet got from the Government, that the Council would bo in a bit better position on Monday than then. He was aware that negotiations were on foot; but he did not think they were likely to bring about an amicable agreement. So tar as the dissolution went, it was a mere farce, a waste of time, in fact, and could do no good whatever. There was no question to go to the country upon. The idea of spending LI,OOO to ascertain from the people whether the Superintendent was right in dismissing Mr Reid or not was ridiculous. He confessed he would not be willing to be returned on such a question. The duty of the present Government was to recommend his Honor not | +■> waste time, hut to send forthwith for a gent’emanlfrom a majority of the Conned, so that a Government might be selected. If the member was delaying doing so, in the hope that a member of the minority woidd he sent for, he (Mr Duncan) thought it would be weeks before a Government would be formed. Ho was sure any member from his (Mr Duncan’s) side would endeavor to form a Coalition Government, taking a fair share from both sides of the House. The member for the Taieri made overtures to two members now on the Government benches, hut they distinctly refused until they met their own party, and the man in the street said one hon. member brought forward a resolution that no Government should be supported that had Mr Reid in it. If such was the case, that hon. member should spare his advice until he gained more experience. Dr Menzies deprecated unnecessary delay in the forming of a new Executive. His Honor might authorise any other member to undertake the dijty of forming the Ministry, and it was not dijsirafile t° nnpry him tqo much m this matter. They must remember that by doing so, much more time might be lost than would otherwise be the case. Under the provisions of the last Appropriation Ordinance, authority was given to the Government to continue its expenditure at the same rate for a period of two months after the 31st March. These two months would expire at the end of this month: and unless money was voted by the Council alter that time, there wqqld he nq funds to enable the Executive to carry on with. He apprehended that, as that time drew near, a solution of the difficulty must be found somehow. It would be much better for the Council to consent to a reasonable adjournment at once, than to be going on in that way, meeting day after day, and then adjourning to another day. Let them give more time by their adjournments, so that the Superintendent might be enabled to consider what other member of Council it would be advisable for him to send for. When they again met, this difficulty should not only be solved, but they should have a Government upon those benches, prepared to launch out into the work of the Session without further delay. Mr Cutten spoke in favor of the motion, in order that some one else might be sent for with that view. That, he contended, was the ordinary cqurse pursued under such circumstances as the present. He could not help noting some remarks which had been made by the member for Dunedin (the Hon. Mr Reynolds). He (Mr Reynolds) hvd always fought against responsible Government. They had, however, resolved upon carrying on their proceedings ifi accord* gnee with the principles qf responsible Government, although the Superintendent had ipade attempt to set up an opposite position. The Hon, Mr Reynolds, referring to the vote of want of confidence alluded to by the previous speaker, said that the Council dissolved, and thirteen members had been returned in favor of the position he had taken up, as against six members who were opposed to it. He then formed the first Government of that Council In fact, he succeeded in maintaining his position notwithstanding the vote. _ Mr Thomson said that it appeared to him that the intention was unduly to <xalt the office of Superintendent of this Province, There could he no doubt but that the position held by the Superintendent was an exalted one. They had been told that the powers he possessed were as much as the powers of the whole Council put together. Be that as it may, members of that House had some small powers conferred upon them ; they had still a few duties left for them to discharge. Horn members had been stating at great length what the present issues should be. A great deal depended upon the knack by which these opinions were expressed. When a favor was wanted, a great deal depended upon the tact displayed in presenting the matter to the person from whom the favor was asked. Now, how had the issue that had been raised by this debate been put) 1 Compare the issue as put by Mr Reynolds with that stated by the member for Port Chalmers. The position taken up by him (Mr Reynolds) was that the Council intended to domineer over the Superintendent, and on going to his constituency thequestion asput by him was- “Gentlemen, are you going to allow that ? Is the Provincial Council to be allowed to domineer over your Superintendent ?” On the other hand, the member for Port Chalmers raised another issue. He went back to his constituents, and asked if they were going to tolerate a Government that would prevent the prosecution of public works at Port Chalmers. Apart altogether from that view, he did not think that any question of policy had been raised for them to go to the country upon. Without entering into the merits of tire question of a dissolution, he thought these circumstances were sufficient in themselves to defeat the claims put forward by the members for Dunedin and Port Chalmers for an appeal to the country. Mr Reynolds : You can address my constituents for me if you like. The Hon. Mr Bathgate said that he took speech in hand on that occasion with veiy great reluctance. He did not intend to take any part in the debate. If he consulted his own feelings he would be inclined to sit still in his seat. His colleague, one of the members for Dunedin, had indulged in a very strong statement about him —(Mr Bathgate)—and it was necessary that he should say something in regard to it. The statement was that the whole time _ of the Council had been taken up by his hindering the progress of business. —(Hear, hear.) A more ungracious and incorrect statement had not been made since the Council commenced its sittings. The fact was that for several days he sat patiently in his seat, never opening his lips upon any question at issue. He did not intend to take any part in the debate, as he had the prospect of not being able to remain throughout the whole of the session. From the first moment that the Council commenced its sittings up to this time the Executive intimated its resignation. Ie never opened his mouth. He patiently submitted to a whole battery of personal abuse—ibuse commenced by the hon. member for Clutha. continued by the member for Taieri, and followed up by the member for Caverehwn.
mutual admiration society Blaiaitched into himr Up to thab titne he said one single harsh word y Sid H own desires, he would getthrouglwife void of offence 1 1 all men. It was not, however, to be expected that he would continue to sit there and bo made the sport of their sneering speeches, without making some answer by way of retort. Il was not only in the Council that he had been abused by these gentlemen : they had also abused him in public meetings. In particular, at tho meeting held in the Taieri Plains he had been made the object of personal sneers. He now asked both sides of the House if it was in human nature to submit to such treatment, without making some sort of answer? Having hit hard, they must be prepared to take the consequence. He had only adopted their own style of debate, adopted the motto nemo me impune lamdt. In proceeding, tho speaker alluded to statements made at a previous sitting of the Council, when Mr Mervtn ro"o to correct him. He (Mr Mervyn) remarked that the statement made by the hon. member on that occasion, was to the effect that hon. members had been charged with having been guilty of indecency. It was not, he said, a majority of members against whom the charge had been preferred, but against the whole House. Mr Bathgate continued to say that he withdrew the charge of indecency, as then made. Ho had no desire to cast reflections upon the Hf use generally. He was desirous of living upon terms of good feeling with the whole House. All that he now aimed at was to clear himself from the aspersions cast upon him by his colleague for Dunedin. He was perfectly willing that the whole question at issue should be decided by members going to their constituencies. It was unfair to the constituency of Dunedin that four of its members should be found voting one way, and the remaining three another way. Such a state of matters was not only a great inconvenience, but it was a loss of power to a city like Dunedin; and he was perfectly willing to resign, and throw himself on the constituency. He trusted the House would see precisely what he meant He did not think he had been fairly treated in haring such piles of abuse poured upon him, both inside and outside the House, by the unforgiving member for the Taieri. No man respected his (Mr Reid’s) natural talents — Mr Reid rose to a point of order. He thought the personal allusions made to him were injudicious, TheSPEAKEßrepliedthatthfoughoutthe whole of the debate greater latitude had been allowed than on ordinary occasions. Although he had permitted it, stfll he had to tell the House that it was unfair. Mr Bathgate, on resuming, referred to his previous connection with the member for the Taieri. He (Mr Bathgate) had agreed with him upon one groat course of action connected with the repeal of the Hundreds Regulation Act. Now, however, he had found it necessary to take a different side from him : for the sake of progress and advancement he found that course necessary. A kind of divorcement had taken place between them, partly from incompatibility of temper. He would be no party to forcing the member for tbe Taieri upon the Superintendent of the Province, and lie believed that if that gentleman would exercise the virtue of no difficulty would be experienced in forming a Government satisfactory alike to the Council and the country. He was prepared to discuss matters fairly, temperately, and on principle alone, and he would ask that that style of personal abuse should be dropped. If not, he had to inform hon. members that he had one or two red-hot shots left in the locker yet.—(Laughter.) Mr Stout said that if it was unconstitutional for a member of the Provincial Government to be a member of the Colonial Government, it was equally unconstitutional for a member pi the Colonial Executive to act as Provincial Solicitor. The member for Dunedin had related to them the story of the calf and the two cows. He thought that story was very applicable to his own case. The first one to mfdce personal allusions in a hitter speech was the member for Dunedin himself. Referring to the hon. member for the Taieri, he spoke of him as a person of intense vulgarity. ■ ' Mr Bathgate : That is a misrepresentation of what I did say. Mr Stout continued to say that he was perfectly amused with one of the reasons put forward for a dissolution. The fact that four of the members fqr Dunedin voted one way, an 4 three the other, w-as nothing new. In the General Assembly the hop. gentleman himself had never voted with his colleague, Mr Rey: nolds, until last session. Minorities had to he represented, as well as majorities:- It was impossible for them to get all the members of one mind. If that was urged as a valid reason for a dissolution being granted, then they never could have a session without a dissolution. What question had they to submit to the country ? They had no question of policy ; in fact, no constitutional question at all The only question they could have, was whether the Superintendent’s choice of certain members to fonn his Government should be upheld or not i That was no question to submit to the country. Mr Bathgate rose to a point of order. The question before the Council was one for an adjournment. The Speaker replied that the whole current of the debate had been out of order. Mr Stout continued: When the question qf the Hundreds Act was before the Council, the re-union with Southland, and various other matters requiring careful consideration, a dissolution was refused; and why, he asked, should a dissolution now be granted ? The whole difficulty arose from an incompatibility of tempera: menfc between the Superintendent and the members of that Council. Froip remarks made by the hon. member fqr Dunedin, lip, (Mr Stout) wqs inclined to think that ho was his HonorVi sole adviser. He had afforded them information qh points a? to his Honoris ideas on the subject of a dissolution, which the present Government appeared to know nothing about, Mr Bathgate rose to a point of order. Mr Stout : We are told by the member for Dunedin that tbe Superintendent is willing to take any Executive, as long as the member for the Taieri is not in it. Mr Bathgate asked if Mr Stout was in order when he made such statements as these ? Mr Stout ; If the hon. member says that he does not know the Superintendent’s opinion on that point, then he has made statements that are utterly without foundation. An act of that kind was unfair, both to the Superintendent and to the Council. He had one thing more to refer to on the question of a dissolution. The party in the Council anxious for it thought they had got hold of a good cry to go to the country with. They no doubt thought that by going to the country just now they would be able to secure their position for four years longer. A demand of this kind was continually got up by one side or another, whenever they thought they had a good question to put before the country. It was a reprehensible practice, and one which he would discountenance. He would support the motion for an adjournment; and in doing so expressed his opinion that some person should be empowered to form a new Executive. The motion was put and carried. The Council then adjourned till Monday, at two p.m.
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Evening Star, Issue 3195, 17 May 1873, Page 2
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3,480PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Evening Star, Issue 3195, 17 May 1873, Page 2
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