MESSRS REYNOLDS AND BATHGATE, M.H.R.'s, AT THE MASONIC HALL.

Evening Star, Issue 2806, 14 February 1872, Page 2

MESSRS REYNOLDS AND BATHGATE, M.H.R.'s, AT THE MASONIC HALL.

Last evening, Messrs Reynolds and Bathgate met their constituents to give an account of the proceedings of the last session. I here was a very large attendance; and the Mayor was voted to the chair. Mr Reynolds, as the older member for the City, was the first called upon to speak. He explained that he delayed addressing his constituents until Hannard and the Acts pissed last session came to hand. As the telegraphic summaries and correspondence published in the daily papers gave a very fair condensed report of what took place in the Assembly, he thought it unnecessary to go into detads ; hut would coniine his remarks to what he considered to be the most important measures affecting tire Colony and Province. He did pot profess to have thoroughly mastered the whole legislation of the session—it was impossible for any member to do so—at the same time ha had a good general idea of everything that had been done. On his arrival at Wellington he thought it his duty to ascertain the state to feel the pulse in fact—of the House, fully ono-half of which was composed of new members, whom he had never seen before. It required him as an old member to do this ; and after mature consideration he found that the then Government was the only Government that could be formed out of the materials they had to work upon Ho was satisfied in his own mind that they could not form another Government equal to it, and certainly not one superior to it, out of the materials they had. lb fact it was the only Government that could command a majority of the House ; and he therefore resolved, as far as possible, —conscientiously keeping the City’s interests iq view—to support that Government. As the sessioq advanced he was not disappointed in the course he had taken, because he found that the gentlemen who forqied the opposition had. no policy in common upon which they could come bcL re the Assembly ; in fact, were at sixes and sevens amongst themselves. But he expressed his dissatisfaction with the composition of the Ministry, as it contained too many A 1 ortli Island members, and he was assured that the ranks would be filled up by South Island members—one at least from Canterbury and one from Otago. He regretted to say that this understanding was not exactly kept. He did not entirely blame the Government for it ; he rather blamed one or two of the Otago representatives, who, so far as he could judge, from feelings of jealousy, sacrificed the interests of the Province. There was no use disguising the fact that, as a Province, we had no leader in the Assembly. There was no man around whom the Otago members would unite; if they had such a leader as the Superintendent of Wellington, who carried his orces along With Iqqi, it would have been a very different thing for £lie Province during the late and preyious sessions. He contended that Otago, from its position, was entitled to be represented in' the Ministry ; and he objected to the appointment of Mr Ormond, jiot bn personal grounds, because lie thought him t,o be a very aide man, but because the North Island was too strongly represented, already. One or two of the Otago members believed - or at any rate, professed to believe, that t}ie Province was better off without any representative iii the Government; hut his own idea was that tin y wpre anxious there should be no representative in the Oovenijqcqt in order that they might have

an opportunity of pulling the, wires, and thus gratifying their own ambition. He stated tint without hesitation, and he trusted the oustituencies of the Province would insist upon their members securing for Otago a fair representation in the councils of the Colony. There could be no doubt of the necessity which existed for',Otago being represented in the Ministry. Take for examp'e the railway scheme now being carried out. What did they find? They found Taranaki represented in the Ministry by Mr Gisborne; Wellington by Mr Fox; Hawke’s Bay by Messrs M‘Lean and Ormond, and the Middle Island represented solely by Mr lleeves (Mr Sherwin : Where’s Vogel), and Auckland by Mr Vogel. If Otago had a member or members in the Ministry, those members would he enabled to look after the interests of the Province ; they would have to answ'er to their constituents ; and it would be their duty to see, at any rate, that a fair proportion of the works was carried out in the Province, as well as in other parts of the Colony. Judging by the newspaper reports, the Ministry at the present time were carrying out works in the North Island to a greater extent than they were doing in the South. When addressing the electors after the session of 1870, he pointed out that the special appropriations of that session were Ll2 12s 3d per head of the European population of the orth Island, as against L 5 10s 7d per head of the European population of the South; and he was sorry to say that during last session things improved very litttle, if at all. The Assembly sanctioned the construction of railways in the North ishaud at an estimated cost of L 1,629,500, as against L 1,021,100 in the South ; but it was only right to mention that ont of the LC30,000 voted for the railway from Waitara to Wanganui, only L 50,000 was to be expended during the current financial year. But after making that deduction the North Island would have a larger proposed expenditure upon railways than the Middle Island, and there could be no doubt that so soon as the Assembly met, seeing that it had authorised the construction of the railway, the balance of the money would be voted. It musk appear to them a very unfair apportionment of the public expenditu e, when he told them that the population of the North Island was only 98,805, apd the revenue which it contributed only L 347,100, as against a population of 159,385 in the Middle Island, which contributed LG41,G70. From these figures it would be seen that the Middle Island wa- entitled to have one-half of the expenditure upon railways. He would not be satisfied with one-half, because he s id where the population was, there the railways should be made ; they should not be constructed iu anticipation of a popu ation, which might never a r vc. —(Applau e.) ile opposed the Government railway schedule—more particularly the Wellington and Masterton line, which would cost L 350,000, and the Napier and Ruataniwha line, which would cost L 171,000. The country along the Masterton line is of a nature that he did not believe the line would even pay for greasing the wheels of the carriages.— (Laughter.) He would give them an idea of the productions of that portioq of the Wellington Province. The Wairarapa had been settled for twenty-eight or thirty years, and all those years they have been importing their wheat from Oamaru and Timarn to Wellington, and then carting it up there. They have not a single article of export, and the only things they sent down to Wellington were possibly a little butter, a few eggs, and some bacon, in addition to timber. The population of Wellington City was 7,830 ; of Hutt, the next district, 2175; and of the Wairarapa, including Masterton, 3570 ; and yet for this handful of people it was proposed to expend L 350.000 on a railway. He left the meeting to judge whether it was ever likely to pay expenses. Then the population of Hawke’s Bay was 6059, and they intended to take a railway from Napier to Ruataniwha at a cost of L 171.000, for the convenience of 6059 souls—a‘ great number of whom did not live iu the districts through which the line would pass. After noticing the returns present*.l to Parliament of probable traffic on these lines, which he (Mr Reynolds) considered over-estimated, and stating that the lines led comparat vely from nowhere to nowhere, he said that a year ago whep he referred in that very room to the Weliipgton'apd line, expressing his fear that tl;e Wellington rpetpbers would force it into the first schedule, one of the Otago members characterised him as an alarmist, and one who took a gloomy view of things. But he found his view had turned out to be correct. That gentleman added there was not the least chance—that there was io iiiteutioi-* of undertaking ths Masterton line for many years to come. But he found that represented not only voted for the line but used all his influence to get it put on the schedule—(Cries of “name.”) Well it was the Superintendent—(Applause.) Referring to the Education Bill, he thought it right that he should state his views upon this question distinctly- (Hear, hear.) Ho had not the slightest objection to the introduction of a Bill providing for education throughout the Colony ; but at the same time be wished to see the educational reserves in the Province retained for the benefit of the Province, and not put into a general fund. He was thoroughly qppose<|. to the aided clauses, and wanted no’ denominational education— (Applause.) He introduced the present Education Ordinance ; bad worked at it for years before he succeeded in introducing it, and one of the things he was most anxious about was to keep out any interference on the part of the clergy— whether Episcopalian, Presbyterian, or of any other denomination —(Applause). He would never allow the clergy to have anything to do with education, (Hear.) He w.<s iu favour of the Bible being read in schools, but rather than insist upon it, and if he found it necessary o unite with the secular party to exclude the Bible, lie was prepared to do so rather than run the risk of having a denominational education.—(Applause). After referring to the Provincial Governments Bdl as a measure to which the constituencies should direct the.r attention to see whether it met their wants or not, and to the Provincial Powers Transfer Bill as a capital thing for bankrupt Provinces, but qn.piitod to Otago, he referred'to the Act introduced and passed, am- n Hug an Act of the previous session, which provided that a capitation payment of 40s for each man, woman, and child sliopld be ipads fqr Ib?0 : yi; and there was to be qm annual reduction of 2s until it came to 30a. In addition to that, the Act of 1870 provided that for seven years there shqujd be LpO, poo devoted for road boards out of the consolidated revenue or general revenue of the Colony, The amended Acf passed f ast session provides that only 15s per head of the population shall be paid to the Provinces, and LUK),OOO paid to road boards

out of the Public Work* fund. Although we only received 15b capitation allowance, he might as well tell them that from 40s a head there were some Provincial charges—such as cst of inland mails deducted, because a number of these charges was thrown on the Colony, so that the reduction was not so great as it appeared to be. He objected to the arrangement, because wherever the revenue was the greatest, the cost of distributing that revenue was greater. A Hill was prepared to remedy the evil, which seemed at one time likely to be carried ; but it was at last agreed the matter should be rectified next session. It was questionable whether that 15s a head would stand, as although the revenue was increasing, the burdens of taxation were also increasing. In 1856 a compact was entered into that the laud revenue should belong to the Provinces, but it was very clear that the i habitants of the Northern Provinces were anxious to lay their hands upon it. The North Island had no land revenue. In fact, in Otago and Canterbury alone a revenue was derived from land. In the North the land had been given away. (A Voice : They should do that here.) He was in favor of that being done in 1856 to anyone willing to settle upon it, but now he said it would be injurious to Otago to give it to any other Province in the Colony. He would leave his colleague to say what was done in regard to the University Bill. He would give him (Mr Reynolds) credit for having done his duty. He found it impossible last session to get a Bill passed for the regulation of elections, but the Government promised to bring in a Bill to it as perfect as possible. Constitutional changes were proposed by the Superintendent, Mr Macaudrew : they were proposals for financial separation. He approved fully of financial separation. In fact, he did not think they in the South would ever be right until it was effected. In 1870 he promised to introduce a Bill giving to workmen a lien upan their work as security for payment of their wages. He received support in that from Mr Bathgate and Mr Steward, of Oamaru. The Bill was passed, although great opposition was met with, especially in the Upper House. The provisions of the Bill were that the wages of laborers were made a first charge upon the work contracted for. Another Bill that came before the House was the Otago Education Reserves Bill. The reserves were not entirely fer education. They were for the establishmei t of High, Grammar, and District Schools, benevolent institutions and hospitals. Had the Provincial Government been active some years a:o, the Bill would not have been a necessity. He had done all he could to urgfj it in the Provincial Council by resolutions tp get the Crown grants, but nothing but delay occurred. At length the Bill was introduced and passed the Lower House, but was rejected by the Upper House—why, he could not say, except they wanted to transfer the land to the Colonial Estate. He would bp ready to answer any questions with regard to the North Dunedin Cemetery. The Dunedin Borrowing Bill, to enable the Corporation to borrow LIOO,OQO was introduced by Mr Bathgate, and he assisted in passing it with amendments. He next came to'a ticklish subject—the Dunedin Water Works Amendment Bill. He had been told he was not only to be hanged and quartered, bet ducked in the reservoir, for the part he had taken in the jpatter • but lie did not think the Citizens would act in that way to an’ old citizen, unless lie deserved it. The Company originated thus : When he was a member of the Provincial Executive, he got L 35.000 placed in the estimates for the construction of .water works, but the Town Board refused to accept it to be exclusively devoted to that purpose. They said they would rather have the money for making the roads of the City. It was lent to them; but be advised the Town Board to pay neither interest uoy principal. His advice was taken, and the debt was cancelled. The Town Board having refused the grant f r the special purpose, the next best thing was for the Provincial Council to iqake some provision for supply, ing the town with water, and the only plan adopted was to guarantee a minimum rate of interest at six per c-nt. No one would take up the scheme, and the rate of interest was increased to 8 per cent. Then the Compa y was formed with a capital prospect. But difficulties occurred. One party or another who subscribed a hundred shares, failed to take them up, and many others besides them, and the' iyas greater fhaq pected; but if a man got hold of a dis; honest servant be could not see that he wap to blame. He believed the directors deserved praise rather than blame. An Act was passed giving the Company certain rights, which could not be taken from them without injustice, to which he would never be a party so long as he represented Dunedin. By the Act of last session the Company acquired no new rights, except that of increasing their capital by L 15,000. (Oh, oh ) It did not impose and heavy taxation. (Oh, oh, cheers and hisses,) because pipes were now laid where otherwise there would have been no water supply. He would be happy to answer any questions as to the various Bills that had been before the Assembly. The only suggestion he could make was, that of one Province for each island. He believed that would be ultimately carried, although many believed he had separation of the Colony on the brain. (Laughter). He acknowled it was one of his little (V.bles, but he believed sooner or later it would be adopted. Up til then it was for the Constituency throughout the Province to insist upon the members for Otago securing a fair -hare in the Government; so that not only were the interests of the Colony watched over, but they should take care that the interests of the Province were justly attended to.

In reply to questions by Mr M‘Larpn, Mr Revxolps said the Assembly had no power to alter the grant of L 3300 a year for the coach running between Wellington and Taranaki. The L 15,000 mentioned was appropriated to the Province of Wellington, he believed, in 1869.

In rep y to Mr Sherwin: On his arrival at Wellington last session, it was his duty to feel the pulse of the House, so as to ascertain what Government was possible, and he suppoited the present Government as the best that could bo formed out of the present Assembly. He was Jed to believe that the uacan iea in the Executive woujd be filled up by Middle Island members ; but that understanding' was hot carried into effect. With regard to the Brogdeii contracts, it was wel| known that Mr Vogel entered into them when at Hpme. In opposition to them, meetings were held in Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin. He had circulars from the chairmen of the meetings. He considered the matter very carefully, and though at qll times prepared to attach dqg weight to opinions expressed at public meetings be did not consider them sufficiently well informed to be able to judge so well as

he himself was what was best to be done. Small contractors neve - carried contracts satisfactorily. He did not beieve in the system of letting two miles of railway to one. one mile to another, and so on. Such a system cost the Colony twice as much as letting a line to a capitalist The Government, knowing his views, a-kedhimto move a resolution in accordanc' with them, and he agreed to do so. It was for the meeting to sav whether he was to blame or not. To Mr Barton: H c was not aware that, immediately on the Waterworks < ompany’a Act passing, the company doubled the charge to artizans who use the water for moving small machinery, nor that those who used large quantities continued to use the same rates, while the price was doubled to small consumers.

Mr Grant asked a number of questions of no importance, and was listened to very impatiently by tbe audience. After a question by Mr M'Larcn, Mr Barnes put some questions respecting Mr Reynolds’s action on the North Dunedin Cemetery Bill. Mr Reynolds explained thrt when the Mayor was a member of the Provincial Council it was proposed to introduce a Bill for the purpose of handing over the cemetery to the Corporation. De then told him that the Town Belt being a reserve, such a transfer could only bo made by a special Act of tbe General Assembly. Mr Macanclrcw did not see the slightest difficulty, but he (Mr Reynolds) maintained that due notice was required to be published in the Gu-xHc, and he should object to any portion of it being alienated from the ci izens without proper notice being given. Were such a course sanctioned as appropriating reserves without notice, one of these fine mornings the City might find itself deprived of the whole of the Town Belt The only question was whether proper notice had been given, and ho was not aware that it had. After various members had spoken, it was decided that the Hill required to bo dealt with as a private Bill. He maintained it would have been a bad precedent if tbe Town Belt, or any reserve should be alienated without proper notice— (Cheers ) He objected to slip shod legislation. To Mr Stout. If Mr Stout would define yyhat he was to understand by the term “The financial policy of the present government,” he would tell him whether he was in favor of it or not. Of some po; lions be approved—of other portions he didn't. He was in favor of borrowing money for envying out public works. He was nor in :..vor of spending large amounts on North island Railways, because the expenditure was too treat on unprofitable railways. He had efore explained why he supported the BrOgden contracts. He did not consider that he ought to be rudely cross-questioned by a lawyer, after he had fully explained his views.

(We are obliged to hold Mr Bathgate’s speech until to-morrow.)

Mr Grant moved a motion to the effect— VThat the meeting thanks Messrs Reynolds and Bathgate for their, attendance this eve ning, and considers that the ptinciples dominant in this colony are faithfully reflected, as in a mirror, by the pro ent representatives of Dunedin.’! Mr Stout moved and Mr Barnes (amid some confusion) seconded ns an amendment “ That this meeting thanks the members for Dunedin for their attendance this Evening, but declines to approve the course jjaken by them in tin Assembly,” The show of jhancls appeared to be about equal, not more than a score voting on either side. The Mayor declared the amendment carried, and the proceedings terminated by Mr Bathgate proposing a vote of thanks to the Mayor for presiding.