PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Dunstan Times, Issue 320, 12 June 1868, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

(Abridged from the " Daily Times) Tuesday. Junk 2. The Speaker took the Chair at seven o' clock. The House went into Committee of Supply; Mr. Haugliton in the Chair. Mr. Reynolds said that having had no opportunity of stating whether ho was a supporter of the present Government or not, he took this opportunity of declaring that he was a supporter of the Government—(laughter)—and ho would give his reasons for doing so. He knew that it was the opinion of some honorable members that, as ▼ Speaker, he should take no part at all in questions before the House.—(No, no,) In the chair, he had always endeavoured to deal with thorough fairness to all parties. But he demurred altogether to the idea that because he occupied the chair, he was to be precluded from giving full opinions. He represented the largest constituency in the Province—he might say the largest and wealthiest constituency in the Colony.— (" Hear, hear," "No, no," and "Question.) Sorable members might have their own ions, but he could prove it. Not even for the honor of holding the position which he did, could he consent to deprive his constituency of his services. His constituency had reposed confidence in him for a period of fourteen or fifteen years—a fact of which he was proud, for that trust had been reposed in him without any solicitation on his part to secure their votes at the time ofelection. He had left it entirely to the constituency, and they always did him the honor of placing him in u good position—at the top of the poll.— ("Hoar, hear," and laughter.) He considered that it would be gross ingratitude on Ms part to neglect their interests, and the interests of the whole Province; for the interests of Dunedin were bound up with the interests of the Province generally, aud he was astonished that honorXable mombera had such contracted ideas as I to boKove that the interests rf all p&rt» of

the Province were not identical. As Speaker, lie had heard all the debates, and from those debates he was enabled to judge as to the real position of parties: and ho had no hesitation in declaring that, as far as he could see, the Opposition had been a factious Opposition. —(Oh, oh.) He had taken a few notes of the arguments adduced—if arguments they could be called —by the parties in opposition to the policy of the present Government, or the Government which came down to the House. On the motion of want of confidence in the Govtrmnent, the honoiable member for the Ciutha ( Mr. Thomson ) made the charge tliat the Government granted the pastoral leases under the Waste Lands Act, lSliO. The honorable member, if he had taken the trouble to inform himself, would have found that those leases were not granted by this Government, bnt by a previous Council and Su* perintendent, and before the present Council and Superintendent were elected. Messrs Mitchell, Hutchesou, Shepherd, and Reynolds, addressed the Committee. The "pro forma" motion to report progress was negative.!. Superintendent's Department, £1550. On the item—Superintendent, £I2OO. Mr. Hay moved that it stand at £IOOO. He had every reason to believe that the Superintendent thoroughly performed the duties of his office, but the country demanded that there should be retrenchment, and these salaries were far too high—far too high altogether. He thought that £IOOO was a really very large sum of money to pay for this office; and on looking to the other Provinces, it would be found, that, after the proposed reduction, the salary would , comparatively , be a very high one. The Provincial Secretary (Mr. J. Vogel) said that, at the commencement of the period of office, the Committee resolved to fix the salary at £I2OO. There was nothing in the necessities of the country which called for the proposed reduction; and, out of dnors.it might appear that a reduction was proposed because of something which had occurred recently. (No, no.) It would be an exceedingly ill-advised proceeding, unless there were some very strong reason, to be continually altering the Superintendent's salary. It would be a far preferable course to fix the salary by law, instead of taking a yearly vote. In Wellington, last session, it was found desirable to vote a permanent salary for the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the Chairman of Commit tees. Mr. Mitchell supported the amendment. Mr. Shepherd reminded the Committee that, last session, the salary was raised £300; so that after the proposed reduction there would be an increase of £IOO, as compared with the amount of the salary when the present Superintendent was elected. Mr. Eutcheson said that nobody knew better than he did, that the duties of the office could not be better attended to than they were by the present Superintendent. He denied that the proposed reduction could be made because the Committee were not satisfied with the Superintendent; the proposal deserved support, in his (Mr. fluteheson's) view, because he believed that £IOOO a year was a sufficient salary in the present state of the Province. Mr. Muir moved that the item stand at £9OO. He thought that the increase made last year ought not to have been made, After a discussion, Mr. Muir's amendment was put, and was negatived, by 17 votes to 2. Mr. Hay's amendment was affirmed. Secretary to Superintendent, and Storekeeper, i'.'ioO, was agreed to. Executive Council; Provincial Secretary and Treasurer, £BOO. The Provincial Secretary in proposing the item, said that, with reference to the sal ary of the Provinc al Secretary and Treasurer, and of the Secretary for Land and Works, it had been intimated to the retrenchment Committee; that if reduction were recommended by them the Government would be prepared to make it. Both he and his Colleague had the strongest objections to raise any question on the items ; and if any amendments were proposed, they would take no part in the division. Mr. Hay proposed as an amendment, that the item be £OOO. Mr. Shepherd and Mr. Muir supported the amendment. Mr. Reynolds supported the motion, Mr Tnrnbull, while holding that there should be a distinction between the political and official heads of departments, concur red in the wiew that a reduction should be made, and intimated that in the event of the amendment being lost, he would propose , as an ;amendrnent, the reduction of the iten to £7OO. Mr. Eraser was prepared to support such an amendment, if it were proposed. Mr. Mitchell objected to high salaries being paid to honorable members ambitious of office, Mr. Reynolds knew that, instead of being gaining by office, honorable members on the Government benches were inevitably losers and he was prepared to state that honorable members who now held office as Provincial Secretary and Secretary for Land and Works, had both been serious losers. Mr. Burns from his experience as a member of the Executive, could assert that the two honorable members referred to had been of a value far beyond the salary they received, and the country could well afford to reward fairly such public servants. Mr. Reid supported the amendment. There had never been any difficulty in ob. taining the best men in the Council to accept office, and he anticipated no such difficulty now. Mr. Burns knew that the fact was quite otherwise. Many honorablo members, who would have been most eligible for office had declined office, simply on account of the business loss which it involved. There wft* some fnrtticr discussion.

On a division there was a tie; the voting being— Ayes, 12; Noes, 12. The Chairman: The ayes are 12, and the noes are 12. I give my voice with the ayes.—(Applause.) Secretary for Laud and Works, £BOO Mr. Hay moved to reduce the sum to £COO. Mr. Reynolds did not know why the two honorable members (the Provincial Secretary and Treasurer and the Secretary for Land and Works) should not have voted. It was really a vote for an office, and not for the hoi erofit. Evidently, there would be no good in discussing the matter further, if two honorable members meant again to go out of the House when a vote was taken. (A Member: they showed good sense. Mr. Turubull agreed with his colleague (Mr. Reynolds.) The Provincial Secretary presumed that the vote just taken had to some extent settled the question. He felt more at liberty to speak now than he did before; and he wished to say that, whenever he was out of office, he should support the larger salary of LSOO. He should do so, because he thought there should be a sensible difference between the salaries of official members of the Government and those of heads of departments ; because he thought the salary should be given to the office, and not to the individual; and because he thought that office should be open to members, whether residing in the country or Dunedin. He had heard a great deal about the greatness and gorgeousness of the salary; but he thought that some members would not find it to be so, and that it would be found that fixing the salary at LGOO would be the means of precluding members from taking office, unless they resided in Dunedin. Upon a division, there was again a tie—--12 forand 12 against the amendment. The Chairman: 1 give my voice with the Ayes. I wish to explain that, in these cases, I think it my duty to give my vote with the lower sum proposed in Committee. --•(Hear, hear.) Provincial Solicitor, L6OO ; was agreed to. Three Non-official Members, L6OO, Mr. Reid moved that the item stand— Two Non-Official Members, L4OO. The Provincial Secretary said that the question of having a third non-official member, had not been mooted in the Government; but he would raise the question whether the amendment would be accepted, after a vote come to earlier in the session [on the Executive Council Ordinandi Amendment Ordinance] He did not in any way pledge himself that the Government would not, during the recess, appoint a third non-official member, if the item as it stood was voted, and if the Government saw that a third member could be well employed. After discussion, the amendment was put and was negatived, their votingAyes, 9: Noes, 10. Mr. Shepherd proposed as an amendment, that the amount stand at L 504. He meant by the amendment to affirm that the Government should consist of not more than five members, two of them being nonofficial. The Provincial Seerctary submitted that it had been decided that "Three non-official members" should stand. If the sum now proposed was adopted, and there were only two non-official members, they would not take the whole amount voted. It would be rational, if the honorable member would propose to increase the salaries; for the honorary members did much and most valuable work. Mr. Reynolds agreed with the Rrovincial Secretary as to "Three Non-Official Members" having been affirmed. The Chairman bell to the Contrary. What had been done had been to negative, "Two non-official members" L-100. Members could go on moving amendments in the amount; the question was one of salary, not of number of non-official members. A division took place, and the amendment was affirmed, there voting—Ayes, 10: Noes, 9. Secretary; LSOO, Chief Clerk, L2SO ; Clerk, L 240. Contingencies, L 125. Provincial Council: Salaries, L 1025 ; con tingencies, L 2075. The following were agreed to : —Speaker, L2OO ; Chairman of Committees, L 100; Clerk ami Librarian, L 350 ; Assistant Clerk L 175. Sergeant at Arms, LIOO. Mr, Muir move thatthe item stand, LSO. The amendment was negatived, by 10 votes to 4 ; and the item as printed was agreed to. Messenger, LI 00, was agreed to. Expenses of Country members LI 100. The Provincial Secretary explaine 1 that it would be necessary to put a considerable addition upon the Supplementary Estimates, in consequence of the length of the session. Probably, the amount would have to be increased to L2OOO or L 2200 in all. The item was agreed to as printed ; as were also—Council accomodation, and Expenses of Select Committees, L3OO ; Printing and Stationery, L6OO ; incidental expenses L 25. Provincial Solicitor—Clerk L2BO ; incidental, &c. L2OO. Police : Salaries. Ll4, 413 17s 6d ; contingencies, L 2615. The Provincial Secretary urged that the items should be passed without discussion. The force was not only a credit to the Province, but was the envy of all the other Provinces, There was no other head of a department who did so much work as the Commissioner of Police. He had no regular hours, and he had recently undertaken the duties of Inspec'or in Duno lin—a saving being thus effected. The expenditure has been year by year reduced ; the amount being (in round numbers) 1863-4, L 48,000 ; 1864-5, L 39.000 ; 1565-6; L 20.000; 18667, LIB.OOO } 1857-8y L 17.000; 1868-9, liiGyOW— the reduction rreteg ao.trlr

L 1,200, as compared with the last year. He hoped there would be nothing like a repetition of language which had been used earlier in the session, and which had, most naturally, caused annoyance to the Commissioner—an officer whom it would be a great loss to the Province to lose. He (the Secretary) would move—Salaries L 14,413 17s 6d. Mr. Muir moved an amendment on the first item : that LOOO, after "Commissioner " stand at LSOO. After discussion the amendment was neg atived without a division. The other items were agreed to as printed. Escort: Salaries, L 1285 10s ; contingencies, L 1650. Harbor department: Salaries, L4OOG; contingencies, L 631 lis. Gaol.---Salaries, L 4121 10s ; rations and contingencies, 'L3790. Provincial Treasurer's Department: Salaries LI 150 ; contingencies, L 250. Collection of Jetty Dues : Salaries, L7OO, contingencies, Ll7O. At five minutes before 1 o'clock, progress was reported, and leave obtained to sit again. Monday, June 1. Mr. Hay moved, " That, in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable that all main roads to lie made in this Province should be by contract only." He did not mean the motion to apply to ordinary surface work, but he altogether objecte I to having the roads made by day labor, or without sufficiently advertised specifications and tenders, the day labor system proving both expensive and inefficient. Mr. Shand seconded,the motion. The Provincial Secretary suggested that the words " as far as practicable" should be inserted in the motion. There were exceptional and urgent cases, where it would be unwise to iucurthe delay of entering into contracts. Mr. Hay adopted the suggestion; and the motion was adopted. Mr. Fraser moved, " That the petition of Robert Finlay be referred to the Government for their favorable consideration, The petition, though received as from Robert Finlay, was one from a number of settlers, who were desirous of getting a number of blocks of land for agricultural purposes. It was meant to be dealt will by the Committee on Wakatip Runs, but it was now preferable that the matter should be left to the consideration of the Government. The motion was seconded and agreed to. i Mr. Hanghton moved, " That the petition of certain residents at Hyde, requesting that a block of land be set apart for agricultural purposes, be. referred to tho Government for their favorable consideration." There were certain circumstances in connection with the matter v hich entitled it to some further inquiry. There seemed to be a difference of opinion aa to particular blocks of land to beeelected, and the Government would be able to make the inquiry necessary without any expense. The motion was agree i to. The Speaker left the chair at half past five o'clock. The Speaker resumed the chair at seven o'clock. Mr. Hanghton presented a petition from Robert Wilkin, of the Province of Canterbury. The suspension of Standing Orders was agreed to. Mr. Hanghton moved taht the petition be referred to a Select Committee consisting of Mr. Speaker (with his consent) Messrs Thomson, Sibbald, Turnbull, Tayler, Hughes and Mr. Hanghton [the late Private Grievances Committee, except that Mr. Haughton's name is substituted for that of Mr. Mitchell]. The petition related to an important matter ; ami if it was referred, any discussion would come properly when the report was brought up. The Provincial Secretary said that the honorable member'for the Lakes ought to have explained to the House that this petition referred to a question dealt with last session? Mr. Wilkin was then declared to be entitled to receive £2OOO compensation : but tho amount was made payable contingent on the sale of the Wakatip runs. The House had this session resolved that the runs should'not be sold ; consequently, the money could not be paid, unless upon a direct authorisation by the Council. Ho the Secretary, supported the prayer of the petition, but he would be no party to its being brought before the House, and referred to a committee, without a propar explanation of what was involved. M, Haughton and others gave explanations ; and the motion was tneh agreed to The House went into Committee of Supply ; Mr. Haughton in the Chair. District Gaols : Nino gaolers,.£l62o ; rations stores, &c. £650. The Provincial Secretary explained to the honorable member for Wakouaiti (Mr. Mitchell) that there was some doubt as to who had authority over these Gaolers ; but that the matter was under consideration by the Government. Mr. Mitchell was satisfied with the explanation. Sheep Inspector's Department : Salaries, £3OOO : contingencies, £530. Immigration : Salaries, £7OO ; contingencies, £2BO. Quarantine, £SOO. Education : Secretary and Inspector£soo Clerk, £IOO ; Music-Master, £4OO. The Provincial Secretary (in reply to Mr Shepherd) said that he believed the Master not only taught the boys, but put the Masters, where necessary, in the way of teaching. The experiment was, as the Government understood, so far most successful. Mr. M'lndoe opposed this item last ecs sion, and he was more than ever satisfied that a Music-master could not overtake all th« District schools. As, after the tcsolu- . tion from tho Retrenchment C-iunnitlec, " herj vm a xoviL ii cot a legnl right, to 5

this year's salary, ha (Mr, M'lndoe) would not now attempt to inte.fere with the vote. Shorthand Writer, £3OO. The Provincial Secretary said that Mr. Diaek had been teaching in some of the schools very sucoessfully ; and he had such a love for his art (Phonography) that ho had so labored gratuiteusly. The School Committee had strongly recommended an extension of the teaching ; and what was propose 1 was rather to meet the expenses of travelling &c, than as a salary. Apart from all question of the value of a knowledge of Shorthand, in relation to reporting he thought there was scarcely anything that could be taught which wouldJbe more likely to be constantly useful to boys, thau Shorthand. Mr. Mosley oppose'! the vote. The Province had really not the money to spare (laughter) and there were many things of more importance to be attended to. On a division, the item was affirmed, there voting,—Ayes, 19 ; Noes, 9. Drawing Master, £4OO. Mr. Muir, Mr. Shepherd, Mr. Hutcheson Mr. M'lndoe, and others, opposed the item. District Schools.—Teacher's Salaries, £B3OO ; contingencies, £3635. The items were agreed to. High School.—Salaries, £2OSO. Contingencies, £550. The items were agreed to. Hospital.—Salaries, £2560 ; contingencies, £4400. Mr. Shepherd said that he found that the £3 to £1 subsidy for Goldfields Hospitals was to be reduced £2 to L. 1 ; but there was no attempt to interfere with the old system of providing all that was needed for maintaining the Dunedin Hospital. Hos ptals on the Goldfields were more required than the one in Dunedin, both being, however, necessary. As he could not move to increase the subsidy to the Goldfields Hospitals, at present, he would at the proper time, with a view to the Supplementary Es timates, refer at length to the subject. Mr. Reynolds said that the Dunedin Hos pital was not a Dunedin Institution. A few sessions ago, he inquired, and he found that eight out of nine patients came from country districts. There were no special votes asked for Dunedin—if there were, he would oppose them. The people of Dunedin only wanted the interests of the Pro vince to be properly attended to ; but, as a matter of fact, there being in Dunedin one fourth of the tax paying population, Dunedin was quite"entitled to a large proportion of the expenditure. He should bo quite content to see'Dunedin patients in the Hospital, supported by private subscriptions and a subsidy. Mr. Fraser knew thht if patients were sent from the country to Dunedin, they were only sent because the eountry hospitals were full. The country residents had subscribed very largely and liberally for their Hospitals ; and he knew from experience, that those Hospitals would fall into great difficulties if the subsidy was not to be continued at the rate of L 3 to LI. There were complaints that the discussions were becoming most desultory ; and the Chairman said that if every subject was to be discussed on each item, a the discussions in Committee of Supply would never en 1. The'irems wore agree! to. Lunatic >sylum : Salaries, L 1550 ; rations, medicines, &c. L 3540. Miscellaneous : Inspector of AVeights and Measures, LSOO. Mr. Shopherd'movcd to reduce the salary to L3OO. The amendment was negatived. Mr. Shepherd moved that the salary be reduced to L4OO. On a division, this amendment, was also negatived—Ayes, 4 ; Noes 21 ;and the item was passed. Cattle Inspector, Ll5O. Mr. Muir opposed the item. He thought it would lie more satisfactory if the Inspector were paid by fees, and that the Government should appoint a qualified veterinary surgeon. The Provincial Secretary believed the present plan worked extremely well. The item was agreed to. Messengers, L 470 ; Keeper of Ouarantine Hospital, LSO ; Toll-keepers (13) LI 100; Meteorological Observer, LSO ; Incidental Expenses for Tolls, L2OO. Crown Lands : Salaries, L 2140 ; contingencies, LI 145. Chief Commissioner, LCOO. Mr. Hay moved that the sum stand at LSOO. Tbe amendment was negatived. Survey Department : Salaries LSI 15; contingencies, L 10.776 (including L47OS for laborer's wages). Roads and Works : Salaries, L 2575 ; contingencies, L 670. Telegraphs : Salaries, L 1250 ; contingencies, 1/450. General Road Board : Salaries, LIO4O ; contingencies, L 590. At five minutes after midnight, progress was reported, and leave was obtained to sit again. The House was adjourned until 2 o'clock to day (Thursday), Tnxßsn.w, June 4. Upon the motion of Mr. Muir the district schools of Lawrence, Oamaru, and Tokomariro, were advanced to the position of Grammar Schools, with a Rector to each, at a salary of L 250 per annum. Mr Shepherd moved (and it was agreed), "That the petition of certain miners residing in the Cromwell, Cordrona, and Upper Clittha Districts, praying for the extension of the Goldfields, be referred to the Government for their consideration." Mr. Hanghton asked the Se-retary for Land and Works, " If he had any objection to lay upon the table the tender of Mr. Aldrich for the construction of a Timber Bridge over the Shotover, with the correspondence connected therewith?" The Bridge was to cost about L3OOO, and Mr, Aldrich believed that it would answer every purpose for several years. There was a sum of LBOOO, under the head, "Out of revenue, o r out of loan if authorised," for a Shotover Bridce; but he hoped that the House and the Government would consent to charge the work against revenue, if it could be done for L3OOO. Tho Secretary for Land and Works had no objection to produce all the documents. Tho plans had been considered by tho Government, although they were not in accordance with what was asked for. Mr. Hay moved, "That an address be presented to His Honor the. .Superintendent requesting that bp w ill !« pleasrd to place i on the Estimates a «um to five a unhniuy of | three tu ono ta the Ho-ynUb on lh« Gw-

fields, and the Benevolent Institution as formerly-') Agreed to, but to continue for one year only. LiOO was voted for continuing the advertising sheet. Mr. Shepherd Goldfields' member supported the continuation of the abortion.