THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 30, 30 October 1919, Page 6

THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 2.50 p.m. RAILWAY SALARIES. THE CASK FOR OTHER DEIUJITMENTS. The Railways Amendment Bill was reported by tho Railways Committee Tho Right Hon. W. F. MASSIOY (Minister of Railways) said that lie proposed to take the debute on the Bill tho FolloiviiiK day. . SIR JOSEPH WARD (Awnrua) said that he. would not. be a party to the readjustment by way of increase of the salaries of higher <iflicers of tho l'ailwav Department while the salaries of higher officers of all the vest of tho Public Fervica were being left untouched Hn had supported the' appointment of the present General Manager, and the payment to him of .£IOOO a veitr, the utihry previously paid to Jlr. ililey. But some of tho other higher officers of the Department would get increases of salary of £M a year under this Bill. His objection was that thes* enlarifrs .should be reviewed in this one Department while all other Departments were left untouched. Among those ofurers ho mentioned as deserving of consideration were tho head of the l<wt Office, the h.-ad of the Treasury, the head of the Government Tnsiiranco Department, the Auditor-General, the Land and Income Tax Commissioner, but. their salaries, ranging up to ..ClOOfl, were to stand. It was proposed to grant heavy increases in salaries, and to put heavy extra burdens on the superannuation fund more than the fund could carry, and while this was being dono there wcro men in the lower grades of tlie "M-vico who could not pay their way. He had before him statements of tho circumstances of several men of the service, and the details furnished showed that tho men could not live on what they were receiving. He read some of Iho statements, and lie .suggested that oven • at tliH late stage of the session the Government, nikht have to arrange for the payment to the men of another bonus to meet the cest of living. He spoko again of his concern alxnit tho superannuation fund in view ol the iacr that the salaries of some ofheers lia< been raised to a total of mett. and every ono of them- had th right to retiro at any time having completed W years' service. Some of their superannuation allowances would bo increased as much as MM a year in account of "recent increases in salary. Tho Riirht Hon. W. 1. MASSEY said that n board of bonds of Departments and the Public Service Commissioner had been set up to review all salaries, and to compare those of one Bennrtment witli tlioso of another. Ilaviiiw re"ard to length of service and duties to" be performed-, this board recommended certain salaries for the clue! railwav officers, and those salaries were embodied in the schedule of the Bill.!'• win no doubt true that certain railway servants had difficulty in paying their way but so had other people in Uio counlrv One would suppose, hearing the speech of tlio Lender of the Opposiiion that the Government had done notliiii" to help Iho position. Bonuses had been" pakV to Tailwaymen, and to pay the" wti"cs freights and fares had been increased" bv 21 per cent. Those bonuses were- being- added to permanent wa-'es by the Bill. He had proposed the s'tliii" up of a board representing all branches of the service, with an impartial President-say, the Judge of the Arbitration Court-to consider the i.av of all sections of the service He pointed out to hir Josepli Ward that in view of safeguards inserted in the Bill the superannuation fund would unl bo so endangered as the honourable member supposed on account ot those heavv increases in salaries. Uo claimed that the proposal to set up a board was some evidence Hint the (.iOVnrnmeiit was anxious to do justice to the railwav service If tlio board proposals were accent,iWe t" Hie societies, a heard iviiiild l>o •■'l't up. nnd if the Imartf l-poomim-uded he would bo pn , - nared to ask his cnllenime? to pay tho mnnov. Anvthiiiif would bo better llmu Ihe nrpspiit coiidiHon. by which societies [■nine windii-iilly to the Minister asking for increases. That arrangement wns most; uWUfactory and most unbusmeailike,

. Mr. S. «. SMITH (Taranaki) said that in fact Iho proposals in tho Bill ne introduced would ha\e entitled many members soon fo retire, to get out of the sol , vice at once on heavily-increas-ed alloivaiices. This defect had to some extent been removed from Hie Bill by Hip. committee, lie appealed' to tho Minister to increase Ihe pay of lower Kradcs of the service temporarily until tin; cost of living was reduced. Mr. T. M. WILFOKD (Hutt) suggested to the Prime Minister that in tho dcliate on the Bill Die following day tho House should discuss not only rates of pav but condition* of employment. The Jiailwav Department would bo quite heavily indicted on conditions. lie declared that the Department sent "iaiotic ftnd fatuous circulars" to employees. Mr. U. WITTY (Riccartou) said that a<: .1 member of the Railway Committee ho was uliid to say that tho Minister of Railways had met the oomraittoo very fnirlv. If the proposed hoard were set iii) the state of tho service would be much improved. He was sorry that in tho service one. branch opposed another in tho scramble for advantage. Mr. W. A. VEITCH (Wanganui) said thai, the management had lost the confidence of the staff, an exceedingly unfortunate circumstance, and one that should lie rishted if possible. He believed that the Minister was sincere in his desire to bring about better relations. He said that tho Bill did not offer sufficient inducement:; to intelligent young men to mite" tho service and make good war losses and losses by resignation in recent years. He asked for a bonus until tho bonrd could report in order thai men niieht not leave the service in the meantime.

Mr. K. W. SMITH (AVaimarino) said that thorp was much dissatisfaction anions; railway servants, and more efforts should bo made by the management to remove the causes of discontent. Not onlv was tho Head Office out of sympathy with the men, but out of sympathy with tho public. He hoped that the new Minister of Railways would lab ft bk'ge: , part in running tho railways, and it Mr. Massoy did not do this then he (Mr. Smith) would be disappointed in him. He was sure, also, that Mr. Massev was just as anxious to deal fairly by the men in the servico and' by the public as any member of the House. Mr. R. BOLLARD (Chairman of tho Committee) deprecated the demands of members of Parliament that increased salaries should not bo given to Higher officers of the service. Was it to bo a rule of the service that a man in the service was never to get more than .£3OO or JMOO a vear? Tho result of such a policy would be that good men would leave tho country. For his own part, ho. could not discover much ground for flifi statements that there was such wulcsurcad dissatisfaction in the service. Jt miirht bo true that men left the service bill- he met mostly men who ban: lett the service, and wished to get back again. There were any number of such cases. The reoort of tho committee was received. LAND LAWS AMENOMENT. Amendments to the Land Laws Amendment Bill were received by Governor s Message. THE LAND BILL SECOND READING DEBATE. Tho Hon. D. H. GUTHEIE (Minister of Lands) moved tliu second reading of the Land Laws Amendment Bill, and explained some of the reasons for tho introduction of the Bill. He said that experience had shown the need tor local knowledge on tho Land Purchase Board, and to secure this it was proposed to set up local land purchase boards. He spoke also of tho proposals for the. development of waste lands. The Bill was an honest effort to improve the lands administration. Its important points were the improvement of the land purchase svstem, tho revival of the Ijoniestead system, and an attempt to deal with land aggregation. Soaring Values. SIB JOSEPH WARD (Leader of the Opposition) congratulated the Minister on the Bill. He thought thero.was a suction of "the leopard changing its spots" about somo ol the proposals. What .-uiioiuit of settlement was going to be secured under the homestead scheme! , A sum of .£1,000,000 was to be provided, and if the cost was i'lflOO per settler tho money would provide for 1000 sett lew. He would like to know what amount of laud really was available for settlement under this system. Sir Joseph Ward proceeded to my that the problem of soaring land values and growing estates had to be solved, or there would bo something liko a revolution in this conntrv The famine prices prevailing _iu Europe were ruling the prices charged tho people of 3Sew Zealand. He agreed that tho Nmv Zealand producers should receive full market values. But the prices, of to-dav wore famine prices, and tho oicliiiarv family man in fcw Zealand scarcely knew how to make ends meet. Ihe peoplo would not tolerate that condition of 11 Mr*'Ma«ey: What condition? . Sir- Joseph Ward: Tho condition of land going up to ; CBO per acre in tins country. The rise in the value of and was abnormal, awl was accompanied bj an extraordinary riso in prices, and the Government would have to apply a stifl graduated land tax to check that pro-

"Mr. No?worthy: Most of the high--priced land is in the hands of small "sir Joseph Ward: The family man XHi-""aU farmer is in the lirjSward said he did not think export'Drices would decrease or some time The country required the extra money Co meet war costs But some con"deration would require to he given to tors that were distress™ very many neonle in Now Zealand to-day. The nsSto of land in New Zealand, n> vow of the fertility of the soil and the demand for products, was next door to a Cr Mr e 'Masscy: Does not that apply to tSh Ward said that farm laud wis in an exceptional position. Jneie vas room in the country for any miroer of businesses, but there was room for cnlv a limited number of farms. Ho tiinnclit the Government should assist Sed soldiers to recover their farms it the price at which thov had sold, plus tie improvement,. He thought he ta* against, aggregation should go 1 aA «« the last four years. Something won. « required 'to prevent aggregation in Uie future He suited Hint n 1 t'ltmo liters of land should be subjooto the consent of tho laud boards lhe dutj of tho Government. was to stop aggie**tlOn ' Prime Minister Replies. Tho PRIME MINISTER (Right Hon. W F. Makey) said that Sir Jo»|.h Ward in opening his speech, had sugKc4ed that some members of «io Government had changed their HoHtieal views e raming the Bill. lie had quoted nothiiiK from the Hill in support of lu» statement. The homestead system pro•xisecl in the new liill was not nro. U Clb-cn siicobssfnl in New Zealand forty vears iwo. with the difference that Ihe'pixwnt scheme pronowd to p*<' financial assistance to the settlers. Ho !"u"ved tho system would result in thy profitable occupation of large areas of land at present lying waste. The Sato would have an asset against its advances nnd would not be facing any serioiM loss. ■T ar«e areas of Crown land whirh had been lying unnroductivo had a ready been settled In-soldiers, and it would be made productive. There was much (rood nnd privately owned which was lyins idle. ■Possibly it might be necessary in future venrs to discriminate in taxation between the man who used his land to full advantage and tho man who did not. Soon tho system of taxation of land would have to bo revised to relievo some settlers in nob districts from payment of graduated taxation on interest in land covered by mortgage. Quite small men paid this heavy gradu-, ated tax. ~ Mr Wilford: Have yon any proposals' 31 r. Jlwey: 'Oh, yes- My proposals will coino in lime, when I have an opportunity of reviewing the system ot laatiou next ser-sion." (Laughter.) Kefo'Ting to tin- aggregation claims, lie Kiiid lh.it there was not a member ot the House 'who fiivoirod aggregation, it had no fiiends. Mr. Brown: it hasn I many enemies in some parts of the House. Mr.' Massey. "No, 1 understand that Iho honourable mcn.ber is in favour of aggregation-ill certain directions! (Laughter.) He claimed that ho had

been the first Minister of I.nnds to attempt to stop aggregation by legislation, and the problem had proved extremely difficult. In regard to the cost of living it should be remembered all tho time thnt tho cost of living affected the producers as well as other people. It should not be supposed that tho producers were nninssiiig great wealth, becaiiso they were not. Tho great need of the country in the new <-ra was increased production, and increased industry.

Settlement. The Hon. AV. D. S. MACDONALD (Bay of Plenty) said that the policy of tho Government must for somo time, be ono of (doso settlement. The Minister was often unable to buy large blocks because the land was not suitable for settlement by soldiers, to whom tho value of the holding was limited to some JMfIOO. He would urge that the Minister should have power to buy these lands mid to settlo them, Not nil soldiers wauled only £VM worth of land. Hβ thought the Native Department might have assisted tho Minister by purchasing more land for European settlement, particularly on the East Coast or tho th'owera country. He said that tho people who went out into tho back countiy to take up grazing land wero tho worst treated in respect of tenure. All Crown tenants should bo given nbsolute security of tenure. Mr. MaeDonald said a stage had been reached where the Natives would not sell lands at all freely. He thought provision should be made for assisting the Natives to develop lands remaining in their hands. Ho honed the land boards proposed in the Bill would be directed to investigate the private lands in order to discover what land was held for speculative purposes, and what land was being only partially used. There were so-call-ed farmers to-day who were simply professional Innd dealers, engaged in buying and spiling land, and so sending up prices, and increasing the cost of production.

Injustice Threatened. Mr. G. V. FEATCCF. ft'atea) said lie had come into Parliament to watch the interests of the small efarmer. Ho thought the proposals in the Bill regarding aggregation were not fair to the owners. The Government -was taking power to purchase land at tho Government valuation. It van well known that land values had risen 20 to 25 per cent, all over New Zealand recently, and that the Government valuations had not kept pace willi tho rise in values. The new proposal might operate most unfairly. Ho hoped the Minister would look into the matter carefully. Some districts had not been valued for ten years, and the people concerned could not ?et a valuation. The Hon. l>. BUDDO (Kniapoi) said that he was in favour of drastic action .to stop aggregation, and much might be done if existing legislation wero applied. He asked for the speedy settlement of rprently purchased native lands. Mr. MASSEY said there were difficulties, that made for delay. _Tho Maori members understood the position. Tt was a nucslinn of roading through lands not vet mirchased.

At" this stage the Prime Minister informed the House that he had. just heard of the denth of Mr. J. Cfllvin. member fnr Buller. who had. been killed in Wellington that night by a tram accident. Jii'the circumstances he would move the adjournment. The House adjourned at 10.15 p.m.