PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 23, 22 October 1919, Page 8

PARLIAMENT

EDUCATION AMENDMENT BILL AN INSTALMENT OF REFORM The Legislative Council met at p.m. yesterday. The Housing Bill was rend a second time pro forma, and was referred to the Statutes Revision Committee. WOMEN'S RIGHTS, A message was received fym the Lower House agreeing to the amendments inado by the Council in tilio "Women's lights Bill. Sir Francis Bell gave notice of the Women's Parliamentary Eights Bill, .No. 2. MISCELLANEOUS BILLS. The following Bills were reported from committees without amendment:— Hauraki Plains,-Thames a.nd Oliinemuri Counties Bill, Pntea Harbour Amendment Bill; Wellington City Abattoir Loan Bill; Auckland Harbour Beard I.oan and Empowering Bill; Inglewood County Bill; Invercargili liorough Boundaries Extension Bill; dlatakaoa County Bill; Wellington City Empowering and Amendment Bill. The following Bills were put through their, iinal stages and passed:—Tauranga Borough Council Electric Loans Empowering Bill, Tnuranga Harbour Board Empowering Bill, Manaiwatu County Loan and Empowering Amendment Bill, Tho following Bills from the Lower House were rend a first time:—Treaties Peace Bill; External Affairs Bill; Public Health Amendment Bill; Expeditionary 'Forces Voting Bill. The Official Appointments and Documents Bill and the Chattels'' Transfer Amendment Bill were received back from the Lower House with amendments. The amendments in the iirst-named Bill were agreed to. It was decided that 'the amendments in the sccond Bill should 1m considered to-day. The Council adjourned at 4.15 p.m. THE HOUSE The House of Representatives met nt 2.30 p.m. Two days' leave of absence was granted to Mr. J. A. Nash (Palmerston). : The Marriage Amendment Bill (Mr. Hine) was introduced and read a first time. ■ EDUCATION BILL. A STOP-GAP MEASURE. ' The Education Amendment Bill, which had been read a Second time pro forma, was discussed on tho motion that- it should bo committed. ' The Hon. D_. H. GUTKRIE explained tho Bill, which was designed, lie said, to improve the education system, and to remove disabilities which had been Buffered bv some of tho smaller education hoards. It proposed various other amendments that wero considered to be, desirable.

The Hdfi, j. A. HANAN (Invercargill) regretted the non-appearance of a comprehensive amending Bill that he had drafted bofore he left office. The proposed chauge in the method of paying capitation to the boards was a good one,, since under the old system somo of the smaller boards had not received a fair share of money. Mr. Ilanan said there was such a thing as child slavery in NewZealand, and he hoped the -Minister would accept an amendment, dealing with this subject. Mr. A. S. MALCOLM (Clutha) said tho largo education boards in the past had reoeived money for administrative purposes in excess of requirements and had been • able to apply part of the money to other purposes. These boards claimed, however, that they would be prejudiced by the change now proposed, since they had used tho money for necessary works. The financial position of, the school committees required to be improved.

Mr. T. K. SIDEY (Dunedin South) said that the increases made in payments to the school committees since 1914 had not kept pace with rising prices. Ho objected, "to overlapping land wasteful competition in secondary education.

Mr. C. J. PARE (Eden) asked for improved treatment for school committees. 'J'lie increase now proposed was not adequate in view of the increased cost of materials and .services. Nor did he consider the arrangements for the salaries of teachers were satisfactory. The Bill did not affect these arrangements except to increase rates, and ho would like to see the whole system of "salarisation" revised. He would also like to see the curriculum revised, being of opinion that the results achieved with the present curriculum were not so good •as in former days. Ho hoped .that next year Parliament would have an opportunity of reconsidering the education system generally. 'Mr. J. T. M. HORNSBY (Wairarapa) called attention to the state of the schools in his district. The schools, ho said, wcro a disgrace to New Zealand, especially those at Featherstoii and Martinborough. At the latter place tlio school had been burned down, and no move had been made to rebuild. Ihe children meanwhile were being taught in scattered buildings. In leathcrston the infant classes were housed m an unlined shell of a building, through which tho rain poured.- He spoke also of other school buildings not in satisfactory condition. The School Committees. Mr, G. WITTY (Riccarton) objected to tlio provision for school committees. -tho Department ought to do more for tlie country children. Every penny spent in this way would bring a quick return. Mr. It. SEMPLE (Wellington South) said that some of the school committees would be worso olf under the new scale than under the old. The committees needed more money. They ought to bo assisted to improve the schools and •beautify the grounds. Mr C. A. WILKINSON (Egmont) a«rced with other members'in urging ail increase of the grant to education boards for general purposes and assistance to school committees. Ho was opposed to eeiit-alisation of educational authority in Wellington. Delay and friction were caused already by the necessity of referring matters to Wellington. ' Mr. T. M. WILFOHD (Hutt) said decentralisation had disadvantages as well as advantages. If tho red tape of the Education Department had been used in tliii wire entanglements on the Western front, the Germans would never have broken thiough. Members knew how extraordinarily difficult it w.is to get even a small reform effected by tho Department "A Shabby Little Measure." Dr. A. K. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said the Bill was a shabby little nieasure. which had disappointed him. The'education system needed invigoratfn», but tho Bill would not produce much result at all. What was tho Government Koing to do about teachers' salaries? Tho best teachers were drifting away to other occupations, and tho standard of the teaching profession was fnllinif lower and lower. A promise to produce regulations after the session had ended and members had ceased to have any effectivo voice in affairs was not satisfactory. Dr. Neivman referred to 1:1 m "sordid and squalid surroundings' of many of tho schools. The Bill proposed jio reform |in this respect. _ The country would be greatly dissatisfied wilh the Government's lack of energy in education mallei"*. Mr, L. St, ISITT (Chrislchurch North) said that local interest was a vital factor in the success of an cducalion system. Centralisation tended- to kill ■ t'l interest. Tlio Dominion cou'd not aflord to bo niggardly about education, but lie did not think tho present- system ilesreved all the adverse criticism directed towards it. Tho system had been improved in very many ways.

Mr. S. G. SMITH (Taranaki) objected to back-blocks settlers beiiii; required to contributu tomirds the salaries oC teachers. 'The Department to lix a minimum salary for country teachers and so lift an unnecessary handicap from the country settlers. liocal interest in education ought to too stimulated by

tho encouragement of education boards and school committees. Mr. R. A. WRIGHT (Wellington Suburbs) agreed that the back-block school teachers ought to receive increased consideration. Tho people of New Zealand would not object to finding more money for education. Tho system of electing school committees was absurd. Tho Department's tendency towards centralisation ought to bo discouraged. The cdiir cation boards on the whole had done good work, and should not bo lightly cast oil ono 6ido. the system of paying teachers on the average attendance uas utterly unsound and should bo abolished.

Mr. H. HOLLAND (Grey) complained tho education system was not free, since parents had to provide books and meet other expenses, and was not secular, since Scripture lessons and prayers wero allowed in tho schools outside school hours. New Zealand would compare favourably witli the average country in educational matters, but many reforms were needed.

Mr. R. W. SMITH (Waimarino) expressed general approval of the Bill, and especially welcomed the proposals for more liberal finance for boards and committees.

Mr. E. NEWMAN (Rangitikei) said he believed that our education facilities v in the towns and cities were fairly satisfactory, but in tho country the working of the system was far from satisfactory. The principal fault was the poor pay of tho teachers in town and countrv.

Mr. G. R. SYI\F,S (Masterton) said that he hoped the Minister would, in Committee, consider proposals for the increase of allowances to school committees.

Mr. C. J. TALBOT (Tenuika)' |also urged that more money should be provided for'school' committees to be expended on the cleaning and sanitation of schools, but bo did not suggest that local funds should not be used for such objects as tho beautilication of school grounds. Mr. W. H. FIELD (Otnki) approved generally of the Bill as. an instalment of reform. The House should be careful not to do an injustice, to education boards that had accumulated "funds by careful management.for necessary works. The Bill was interfering with the finances of tho large boards, and he (bought tliat some' of its proposals should be postponed until next year to allow time for consideration.

"Mr. J. P. LUKE (Wellington. North) objected to any reduction of ths funds at the disposal of the large education boards. All the money available was required for essential works and repairs. The Hon. D. H. GUTHRIE replied at midnight. ITe explained in detail the purposes of the Bill, meeting the objections 'on financial and administrative ciuestions raised by several members in the course of the debate. He said tihat the regulations proposed were intended to provide for the distribution of the moneys voted for increases of teachers' salaries. These increases would be dated back to April 1. Regarding the allowances to school committees.' he said that the Bill provided for considerable increases, and in any cr.se Parliament would have an early opportunity of reviewing the allowances, should tihev be found to be, insufficient. lie pointed_ out also that, boards would have the right, and might also'have the funds, to give grants to school committees. In Committee.Tilie Bill was committed forthwith. The Hon. J. A. Hanan moved ■' an amendment to provide that no person employ any person under the age of 11 years for the. purposes of gain except under a permit.. Mr. Guthrie suggested that as he was not the Minister in charge of tho Bill fihe clause should not bo pressed now. He would refer it to, the Leader of the Legislative Council. ' The Prime Minister sftid that he was not in favour of child labour, but ho would like to be assured as to the effect of this proposed clause. How, for instance, would it affect the work of boys selling papers in tilie towns, or how would it affect boys milking in the country? He suggested that the amendment be withheld, and he would have it inquired into in the meantime with a view of having it .inserted by tilie Legislative Council.

Mr. Ilanan said that he did not wish to embarrass the Government, but he would not care to withdraw the elauso without consulting his fellow-members. After considerable discussion, hhe Prime Minister raised a point of order against the amendment—that it was foreign to the Bill. The Chairman ruled the clause out of order. The Bill was passed without amendment. Tho House rose at 1.31 a.m.