PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 14, 11 October 1919, Page 8

PARLIAMENT

A NIGHT ON THE ESTI MATES

LANDS, AGRICULTURE, AND EDUCATION

COUNCIL AND THE WOMEN'S

RIGHTS BILL

%he Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. BILLS FROM LOWER HOUSE. The following BiCls were received from this Lower Hbusc, and were read a first time:—Taurauga Borough Council Electric Loans Empowering Bill; Tauranga Harbour Board Empowering Bfc.l; Mannwatu County Loan and Empowering Amendment Bill; "Fishing Industries Promotion Bill. MORTGAGES EXTENSION BILL. - PASSED . WITH AMENDMENTS.' The Mortgages Extension Bill was reparted by tlitf Statutes Revision Committee With amendments. It was put tbruugb its final stages and passed. Tho Bill has yet to go before tho Lower House. The amendments aro as, follow:—The original proposals .inter alia provided tlmt the power to caV.l up tho principal sum, to force a sale of or to enter into possession of land, or to .commence any action for breach of covenant could not lie exercised without the leave of tho Supremo Court. The revised Bill provides that if the mortgagor is given two months' formal notice. that the mortgagee intends to do apy of these things, and docs not within that period ledge an objection in writing, the mortgagee may exercise his powers as so defined without the leavo of tho Court. If the mortgagor objects, the mortgagee may apply for the leave of tho Court to proceed, as was provided in the Act of 1914. An additional provision'makes it competent for the Supreme Court on tho application of either party to extend the protection given by tho measure to any mortgago for a further twelve _ months. That is to say, where the originnf. Bill provided that the principal 6um could not 'be called up before Decemher 31, 1920, except as allowed by tho Bill, the Court may order that, it cannot bo called up before the end of 1921, Under the amendment the Court-may make ft similar order when the application before it is for permission by the mortgagee to call up -the principal or to exercise any other of his powers under the mortgage. 'Stipendiary magistrates are given power to dispose of applications in caseß where tjie principal sum secured is under J!500. WOMEN'S RIGHTS BILL. COUNCIL APPOINTS MANAGERS. A message received from the Lower House stated that that body had appointed a committeo of three managers to conduct oil its behalf ' negotiations upon the subject of amendments made by the Council in the Women's Parliamentary Eights B:.ll. Tho message invited tiie Council to appoint three managers to a conference. SIR. FRANCIS BELL moved that the Council agree to a conference, and appoint Sir AValter Sir John Sinclair, and the Hon. Mr. Samuel as managers. He said that such a conference as that' proposed could hardly he other than a matter of form, but lie fei'.t that the Council would agree that i$ would be discourteous to the House to refuse, the request that managers for the Council should state the position which apparently the House had been unable to appreciate for itself. . (Hon. members': Hear, hear!) He gathered that tho matter had been considered by the House upon the merits of the question of introducing women into Parliament. That question had nothing whatever to do -with tho matter iii difference between,the two branches of tho Legislature. Tho Council had had a definite ruling from its Speaker, and was bound to defend its privileges. The question wjiether a republic was preferable to a monarchy might just as well be brought into the consideration of the present subject matter as might tho question whether women Bhouild be given the right to sit in Parliament. The matter that the Council was entrusting to its managers was one raised by tho Councils message . to the House, anil the Council could not allow its managers to discuss the point at ■'issue from any other aspect tlmnthat which ho had indicated. No opinion should be expressed unon the merits of the admission or non-admission of women into Parliament. "If the , time comes." continued tho Leader of the Council, "when we admit that it is for the Fous-o and not ourselves to define our privileges then tlio time will have come indeed when iit is useless to have a Second Chamber, for ail the powers and rights of a. Second Chamber can be taken away by a side issue by 6uch means." He fina% characterised.attempts to intimidate the Council as the firing of so much blank ammunition.The motion was carried. The Council rose at 3.8 p.m. theThouse The House of Representatives met" at 2.30 p.m. The Mortgages Extension Bill was received from the Legislative Council 1 and read a first time. THE ESTIMATES LAND SETTLEMENT MATTERS. The Houso went into Committee on the Estimates at 3 p.m. Tho Lands voto was the first to be considered. ' . '

Mr. Ell asked the' Minister to take notice of the waste of good land by sluicing. , , "She Minister (Mr. Guthrio) said that the 'matter was one that had had his consideration for some time, lie knew that good land wa9 being destroyed by operations for the extraction of gold, verv often not sufficient to pay expenses. Sluicing operations destroyed the land, and in his opinion it should lie the duty of tho Minister of Land 9 to prevent destruction oi land in thisjjway. Mr. E. M'Callum asked, for the provision of more money for the settlement of Crown lands by oivilian settlers. He suggested that while the soldiers must have Saiul provided for them the Department might well provide additional land for settlement by men with families who had not been to the war. Mr. S. 6. Smith also asked for some , consideration to young men of experience who had not been able to go to the war, and who now wished to settle on land. Without Government aid they vrere forced to pay extortionate rates of Interest to private lenders. Mr T. M. Wilford asked that soldiers who served in the South African war should he'allowed to acquire land. He also spoke of the Crown holdings of ninety acres or so in the borough of Petoiie, at present quite idle, and paying no rates to the borough. While the Government refused to build houses on the 1200 sections at Petone, he understood that they were buying land "on the wind-swept, arid wastes of Miramar."' The Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald supported the claims of the Soutli African men for land. 1 Mr. C. .T. Talbot suggested that practical men should be added to land boards. He said that subdivisions were wrongly made when land was being settled.

Mr. R. A. Wright also pleaded for the soldiers of the South African war. Tic approved of (he action of tho Government in purchasing land at Miraniar. Tho Minister said that a sufficient number of surveyors would !>o available this year for work lo be done. In reply to another speaker he said that the prico of land was certainly high, but this was due wholly lo the increased prices of 1 products and the strong demand for land. But lie could assure Hie House that the most successful settlements were those on high-priced land. As lo tho pleas on behalf, of the fioulli African veterans, he consfiiered that the cmintryVfirst duly was to Ihe men who had fought in the great war. When that obligation was discharged it would.be the turn of the ■Snulh African men to consideration. Referring to the Petonc sections he said that the sections were not taken up, although they had been written down several times.' The sections were still open

for settlement, and he did not know why they were not taken up. Sir. Wilford: The people can't afford tq build houses. Mr. Guthrie said that if this were the true reason it would be removed probably by the operation of the Housing Act when it was passed. ■ LANDS. The Lands Estimates 'vero passed after about an hour of discussion,' and the committeo proceeded to deal with the Valuation and Electoral Departments' Estimates. Valuation of Land. Mr. W. U. Field suggested that the Government ought to press for a revaluation of all the lands of the country. At present some settlers were paying taxes on recent valuations, and some on valuations seven or eight years old. This was very unfair. At least the old valuations should be brought up to date. The Minister in charge of the Estimates (Mr. Massey) said that he was advised by the Department that valuations had not been allowed to fall into arrears. Since the outbreak of war 70 counties had been revalued, the increase in value having been 47 millions sterling. These counties contained n fair proportion of the richest agricultural dairying and pastoral lauds. Forty-four counties were revalued inlm«liately before the war. In 17 counties, consisting in great part of high country, there was no evidence of permanent increase in value. Twenty-four counties were ripe for revaluation and H of these would be' put in hand immediately. The increases in these counties were not expected to be heavy. It was out of the question to revalue all tho rural lands of the Dominion every year. II was true that land values, as disclosed by sales, had increased. Much land had changed hands, 'but very little money had changed hands. Tho lyusiness was done on terms. Tho Government had been able to buy land at much below the market becauso it was a!>lo to pay cash for land purchased for soldier settlements. Mr. M'Callum asked ror an investigation of the Department by some Committee of the House. He said that thousands of pounds of taxation had been lost by tho inefficiency of the Department. Mr. Massey defended the Department vigorously, saying that the head of the Department was a zealous and capable officer, and that the staff was also efficient.

Mr. M'Callum: The old story—"An honest man stole a hors?." A very able Department doesn't do its work. Mr. Massey said that the Department had a big programme of work for the year, showing that it was not neglecting "its work. It was difficult to get competent men to take up positions as valuers. The truth was that valuers were not paid as they ought to be. The vote was passed at 4.55 p.m. AGRICULTURE. The next class was. Agriculture, Industries, and Commerce. SoutH Island members asked for experimental farms to undertake experimental scientific work in different parts of the South Island. Dr. Newman drew attention to the fact that blackberry was invading huge areas of New Zealand, and he urged the Minister to take vigorous steps to check the pest. He inquired whether there was any hope- of cheaper bread for the people, and also whether there was any chance of a standardised boots scheme being put into operation., The Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald said that ho was quito satisfied as to the need for experimental farms in the ' South Island. He paid a' fine tribute to the work of the officers of tho Department during tho trying years of war. The Minister of Agriculture (the Hon. W. Nosworthy) said. that until he had opportunity in- his Ministerial capacity to examine for himself the properties that had been offered and to study the suggestions Made; he did not propose tocommit himself to any definite proposals regarding experimental farms. Tho representations that had been made would all receive consideration. It was useless to expect that experimental farms would, be established in all parts of the country. Some concentration of effort would be essential. Tho, time available this session would not permit of tho intro-. •duction of a Pure Seeds Bill. That matter would have to be held over until next session. The question of a forward move in respect to noxious weeds was being considered by the Department The Hon. B. Buddo asked for increased attention to soit analysis. A farmer ought to be able exact information regarding the composition of the soil iu his fields and the manurial requirements. Mr. G. Forbes asked for information regarding the measures being taken for tin- destruction of rabbits and keas. Mr. It. M'Callum urged the Government to assist farmers who were prepared to do experimental work by .-arranging for a permanent exhibit of seeds and products in the centres.

Rabbits and Kcas, Mr. C. J. Talbot suggested the Agricultural Department should extend its practice of exhibiting tit country shows. He asked for information regarding the iegrassing of denuded lands. The rabbit question demanded attention. South Canterbury .farmers had done good work by simultaneous poisoning The.kens required to be dealt with earnestly, Tho birds wero doing a great deal of damage, and they grew bolder with the passing of years. The fact that the keas did kill sheep had been clearly established, and there should be no further argument on the point in the faco of tho evidence. Policy Matters, The 'Minister for Agriculture said that experiments in the regrassiiig of denuded lands wera 'being continued, and an increased sum had been placed oil the Estimates for the purpose. He had received inquiries from Canterbury as to the attitude of the Depnrtinent regarding tho suppression of Icras, There was eo much diversity. of opinion that the Department, before taking action, wanted to be sure that the peopte would support its policy. Tho suggestion for the payment of an increased subsidy would receive favourable consideration. He could not say how far tho Department was prepared to go until ho knew what the counties were willing to do. Tie was glad to be able to say with regard to rabbits that the position was better than it had been for a long time. That was the general impression. The high price of rabbib Bkins was a. difficulty in the way of extermination, since many people were interested financially in the traffic and wero an influence against the extermination of the rabbit?. The Department realised the importance of soil analysis, and was pushing forward the work. ' " The Flax industry. Mr. W. H.. Field (Otaki) suggested a large increase' in tho number <jt noxious weed inspectors. Tho inspectors at present could not keep informed regarding the weeds, which were,, spreading into new districts. It was absurd to expect one man to aover a hundred miles of country. The flax industry ought to receive attention. It was at present in a parlors condition owing to leaf disease and. high freights. The shipping companies were charging ,£ls a ton for hemp, and .£lB a ton for tow, jw against about a ton-before tho war. If the position was not improved, the industry would be wrecked. '

Mr. J. Anstey said an enormous amount of money was being sent out of New Zealand for the purchase of wheat. In addition to this expenditure, the Government was paying over .£200,000 a year sin,sidy 10 tne millers, The Dominion was capablo of growing every bushel of wheat required if the conditions were .reasonable. He asked what the policy if the Government was going to be. l'lio question really was one for the consuming public, who were paying for imported wheal when lucal wheat was better and cheaper, and could easily be made suflieient. Wheat in New Zealand. The Prime Minister said the policy of the Government with regard to wheat was to encourage the loeal growers to produce all the wheat required in the Dominion, lie would a.-k people who supported another policy 'to consider what was happening in >,"ew South Wales at. the present time. A very severe drought was reported tlieie. The people who said that New Zealand shoiivd produce meat, wool, butler, and cheese, and rely 011 imported wJieat, ought to remember that .Australia was subject to recurring droughts, and could not bo depended upon to supply New Zealand with wheat in all years. It would never do for the

Dominion to be dependent oil Australia. Jin had received u letter a few days ago from a prominent miller, who had said that New Zea'.and was in some danger of seeing (lour costing £25 a ton before long. He did not think that would happen, because Australia had big 6tocks of wheat brought forward from earlier years. Most of this wheat had been bought by the .Imperial Government, but supplies would be available for New Zealand if they w;pre required. Unless tho drought in Australia lasted for two or three years there would be no hardship. the Obssoii was plain.. New Zealand cou'.d not afford to bo dependent, on Australia for wheat. He had never seen better wheat country than was to be found in .Canterbury and North Otago. Mr. Massey added that he had grown wheat himself for twenty years.. lie di<l not 'believe liq had ever made a penny out of it. The prices at that time wero 2s. 9c1., 3s. 3d., and 3s; 6d. a bushel, and thc-ro wero no such prices now. But it was probably true that 6s. a bushel to- I day was no better than 4s. a bushel then. The policy of the Government definitely was to encourage tho growing of wheat in New Zealand. Mr. 1!. Scott asked tho Government to encourage tho cultivation of lucerne and check the spread of sweet briar, which was becoming a nienaco in Otago and i Canterbury. A Policy Justified. The Hon. W. it. IS. Aiacilonawl said the purciuiio ot wheat outside Now Zealand m recent years luut been ateo.utely necessary. 'I'iiu National Government ought not to bo biameu for what lufil occurred. The local tanners, owing to snortago of labour and. other lactors, had not been tike to grow all the wheat required by tiio public. He was not going to tay that 6s. (id. a bushel was a profitable price in nli eases, but some larmers had told hint tney did very wiU put of it. New Zealand had two million bushels of wheat at lis disposal in Australia now, and it probably would bo very glad to have that wheat. He agreed that the Dominion ought not to bo dependent upon imported supplies, Tho Government must encourage wheat growing to tuo best of its ability. .Mr, J. A. Young presesu tho claims of .the Wnikato district to contain a school of dairy science. An enormous industry had been built up, and was expanding rapidly. - The Hon. i). Buddo said the, lean years' had to bo taken into consideration in the growing of wheat. The' Canterbury • farmers generally felt they could make more money- out of stock than out of wheat. T.hey had been asked during the war to sow wheat for patriotic motives, and they had responded. But tJie industry must bo made reasonably profitable if it was required to be continued. Mr. G. 11. Sykes suggested tho Government should establish poultry farms in tho Wairarapa. Such farms would lie very suitable for occupation by returned 'soldiers. There were ill Wellington and ■ elsewhere certain returned soldiers who needed special assistance, and he thought aj State farm should be established, preferably in a "dry" centre, for their reception and training. Dr. Newman protested that tiie official replies legardiug the standardisation of boots was most unsatisfactory. He was utterly disgusted with the gn-slow policy, as represented by the stereotyped replies. Enormous profits were being made by somo persons, who were allowed to buy hides cheap in order that tho people might have cheap boots. But the boots were not forthcoming. AVhat was the policy of the Government? Wliy did tho boot manufacturers get cheap leather while the peoplo still lackcd cheap' boots?

Mr. S. G. Smith suggested that Neiv Plymouth should be made the first and last port of call for tho mail steamers. New Plymouth, he said, was the nearest port 'to Australia. It liad a harbour that would accommodate the intercolonial steamers and that Within a few years would be able to receive the largest ships trading to New Zealand. A day could bo saved in tho handling of mails by making New Plymouth the first and last port of call for the' intercolonial steamers. The Agricultural Estimates were passed just after 10 p.m.. ■ THE SCHOOLS. When the Education Estimates were reached, ' ' Mr. 11. A. Wright s.sked for increased consideration for technical Bchool teachers. The Minister said the matter would be dealt with in the Education Bill'. The Bill would not embody all the reforms required. Some of the larger ! matters would bo dealt with next session. Mr. 11. Holland asked for increased school accommodation. Tire manner in which children were herded together in inadequate buildings was disgraceful. Classes were too large and teachers could not do justice to tho children. Mr. J. A. Young said trouble was caused by the whittling down of new buildings to the requirements of tha moment, without regard to the. future. A school in his district was,being opened in an over-crowded condition. Mr. P. Fraser said there was scarcely a school in Wellington of which the peoplo had aiiy reason to be proud. The Berhampore School _was an exception, A big scheme of rebuilding was necessary. Mr. P. Mander urged that teachers* estfaries sti.ls required improvement. Mr. S-jmple pressed for the acquisition of land adjacent to the Berhampore School for the enlargement of the site. Minister Replies. Sir James Allen, who was in charge of the Estimates, said that it was recog. nised that many school'sites were not satisfactory, but an endeavour had be«n made in recent years to improve many 6ites. As to the Berhampore site, the owner of tho adjoining land was being notified that the land would be taken under the Public Works Act. Replying to complaints about maintenance of schools, he pointed to the fact that on additional £13,000 was being . provided this 'year for maintenance.

Palnierston Schools. ' Mr. J. A. Nash made a strong appeal for better consideration for Palmerstoi) in respect of its schools. He dwelt in 6ome detail on the condition of 'ho schools of the town, and referred to tho present deadlock between the board and the Department. lie suggested that local control and local taxation would l>e pre. ferable to the present centralised control by the Department. Mr, J. A. Hanan, ex-Minister of Edu* cation, said that the Department was not to blame for the delay in building tho Palmerston schools. The delay ivas because of the insistence of the chairman of the Education Board (Mr. Pirani) on central halls in the plans or' the schools to be built. It was not the policy of the Department to have 110 assembly halls in schools, but in the cases mentioned the funds were not available, end the Department in its duty had to resist tho demand. In any case, it wan a fact that on grounds of ventilation and (sanitation the central hall typo of school was condemned by all leading authorities on school construction. Mr. J. P. Luke spoke of llio great need for more generous provision of funds for Wellington schools, primary, secondary, and technical. Jlr. T. M. Wilford supported Mr. Luke, and asked for more money for Hult and Petono schools. Especially he asked the Government to purchase a site for a high school at Potone. A good site had been chosen, 11 acres-.in area, and if it were not bougXt at once it would be cut up for building sites. Health of Children. Sir James Allen, replying to a question, said that the policy of school construction was now under consideration. Additional provision would be made in the Supplementary Estimates. The Hon. Of. W. Russell pointed out that nine medical inspectors had been provided for over 200,000 children. The provision was absurdly inadequate. Thcro were four dental officers for the same number of children. The health of the children wae being neglected. He contended that the services of Slate doctors anil Mate dentists should be at tho disposal of every child in the country, rejiaviiloss of sex. creed, or social -h'his. The Hon.'J. A. Hannn said the Education Department had called for applications for dental appointments,-but tho replies had not been satisfa?torv. Earthen- implications h:ul now Wn asked for. Mr. V. Fwser staled (lie Education Deparhnent had made a verv good lie,sinning ;'n regard -to medical ami dental treatment. The Minister for Education stated, in answer to Jlr. Uussell, that the Department was quite wilr'iiig to allow the mcdical inspectors to visit nivvn'le schools. (Left Sitting.)