BOARD OF TRADE

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 302, 17 September 1919, Page 8

BOARD OF TRADE

, BILL FURTHER DISCUSSED THE COST OF LIVING. Tho debate on the second rending of the Board of .Trade Bill -was resumed.

Mr. J. P. LUKE (Wellington North) said the Bill was about four years' late. If tho Government had taken action earlier, the people might havo been saved from part of the burden of high prices. The Bill, however, was a good one, and he believed it would enable tho Board of Trado to bring about a reduction of prices. The new powers of tho board would pervent any trade flouting its authority. He hoped the secretary of the present board would be retained. Tlib profiteering that had proceeded in the past had not been checked in the way the peoplo .wished, chiefly because the Board of Trade lacked adequate powers. He would be pleased if tho new board, with its increased powers, co-operated with tho local authorities in the detection and prevention of exploitation. Imprisonment was a severe penalty, but it. n-ns not. too severe for the men who had so little regard for the public welfare as to fleece the peoplo at a timo of great national difficulty. Mr. Luke predicted great expansion of trade, and an era of prosperity for New Zealand owing to increased production and high prices. ,He would like'tn see tho secondary industries encouraged in the general interests of. the Dominion. One result of the war had been to raise wages and improve industrial conditions in tho United Kingdom, and this change would increase New Zealand's opoprtunity to promote local industries. He approved of the formation of the League of Nations, but considered that there should also be a lieaguo of British. Nations within the Empire, to guard Imperial interests in the event of another war occurring. Mr. Luko quoted English statistics to 6how that drapery firms had mado greatly increased profits in tho Mother Country during tho war. The duty of tho House was to 6ee that ' tlio Bill beeamo an instrument capable of protecting the people. He hoped tho Government, without \delhy, would tnlco action to nationalise the coal mineß. Ho was convinced that mining, as conducted in New Zealand, had not.been attractive to those engiigod in it, .' Impossible con-j dilions had now arisen, and the Government ought to face boldly a policy of nationalisation.

The Profiteers. Mr. J. ANSTEY (Waitaki) said the Bill was belated, but there was still scopo for its operation. Tho weak point in the Bill was its failure to attack tho evil at its source. The method of dealing with profiteers in past years had been to let thorn' acquire huge profits and then to undertako a hopeless stern chase'after these profits. Ono or two unsophisticated profiteers might.be caught, but the majority escaped alto-, gether. Mr. Anstey admitted" that ho had been unable to understand Sir John Endlay's proposal to stabilise prices by withdrawing the sovereign and substituting «. gold certificate 'representing a varying quantity of gold.- The true remedy for high prices was a radical alteration of tho fiscal system. Under present conditions a great jnass of wealth wus excluded from taxation. This included 'at least ,£50,000,000 'of tax-free loans. > Tho taxation had to bo applied at somo other point, and if it were applied to tho" producers the inevitable result was high pricos. Then tho workers asked for increased wages, and so pricos went up again. Mr. Anstey condemned tho issue of tax-free loans at somo longth, and mentioned that a company in a largo war of business had paid its shareholders 115 per cent, 15 per cent, in dividend and 100 per cant, in watered capital. x A member: What company? Mr. Anstey: "I will tell you prtfa ely.As a matter of fact I was a shareholder myself." (Laughter.) Mr. Anstey blamed the Government for having abolished the mortgage tax. The mortgage now went free up to an incomo of i! 300, while the ftnuer had to carry the burden and raise' his prices accordingly. The burdens placed upon the producing Section of tho community weid far too heavy, and thoy could not fail to produce -high prices. These high prices had 'sent the price of land to a dangerously high level. One remedy would bo a "price tax" and the reduction of tho producers' share of taxation to the lowest possiblo level' • '.

Prices and Currency. Mr. W. D. STEWART (Dunedin-West) said he did not believe tno powers pro- - posed to Tie conferred upon the Boara ot i'rado would enable it to reduce prices to tiie extent some people seemed to expect. There was great virtue in public- : itv. and 'something- might- be efteoted by ■ tnnt means. No important reduction ot prices of home-grown produce would bo ' effected ' until tno Government arranged ; to discriminate between the home price Wd tho oxport price, by means ot- equalisation iunds, grants .from the public , funds, or some other device. ihe improvement of the means of distribution ' would help the people. He had been told by an expert that the pneo ot goods was doubled between tho ships side and the shop counter. A Having of from JO to 50 per cent, might bo effected by the improvement of means of distribution. The mere fixation of prices was apt to limit supply. Mr. Stewart suggested, that iu constituting the new board the Government should appoint an economist of high standing, as a, member. ihe value of the board's report on the coal trade had been due chiefly to the capable interpretation of figures \ £«**>?'• 3 : HiKht. Ileforring to tho stabilisation of price, Mr Stewart said that the scheme placed before tho House, by Sir John jj'indlav, who had explained its origin verv clearly, had been discusesd or year, support of cminont bankers. Ihe po I was that the prices of goods in any t«trv wero admittedly affected intimately bv tho quantity of prices in the couu-. trv All economists wero agreed that a stable currency would bo a » d °«* factor in allaying industrial unm,t am preventing hardship to persons with fixed salaries. Tho basis of a stabilised currency must bo a price index, assessed ou-v the prices of as large a number of different goods as possible. lho Empiio at present had a sovereign with a fixed auantitvof gold, and consequently of variable, value, since gold was a commodity subject to price fl™*™^; r " e reform, proposed was to give thotMicroiKii a fixed value, involving variation in tho quantity of gold contained in it. If tho index number showed that prices had gono up 1 per cent., the Government would know that the sovereign had fallen in value 1 per cent, then tho gold content of tho sovereign would bo raised 1 per cent, and the balanco ot prices thus maintained. The actual ourroncy would consist of gold certificate, and tho people holding these certificates would bo entitled to exchange them ior gold at tho price of the day., -H In d Keen pointed out that this might substitute speculation in .gold lor speculation in commodities. Professor Irving Pishor had suggested that this difficult) should bo met by a, small l>™ Ssa .S" charge at the Mint. The scheme had been studied by authorities .of.tho uiy highest standing, and its principles had been approved almost unanimous!). it held tho centre of the stage among per-

sons interested in currency in Britain and America. Tho present time admittedly was not opportune for its introduction,, owing to the exceptional conditions created by tho war.

The Gold Basis. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) insisted Hint tho scheino discussed by tlio pr(s vious speaker was unsound, 'l'lio banks would not hav6 the gold to meet tho gold certificates al'tcr thp index number had made a series of increases. Tho scheme was based on flio false assmnption that gold was tho l>asis. of credit. Nobody but tho hanker would have tho impudence to suggest, after tho experiences of tho war, that tho credit system had a gold basis. The gold basis disappeared at the outbreak of war. Gold was an inconsiderablo factor in the world's currency. Tho gold basis had never beon mcro than a myth. The truth about tho sehemo was that the bankers wero trying to induce tho world io pay moro for gold. The committees which had investigated Professor Fisher's plan in America were simply part of tho "international finance gang." Mr. Payne spoke of America's experience of tho "greenbacks" as legal tender in tho 'sixties.

Mr. Stewart: What do vou mean by legal tender? Inconvertible? Mr. Pavne; "Convertible info goods and service to the face value. There is no other way of converting a note. Yon can go to a dentist and get your teeth pulled, to a doctor and get your .leg sawn, or to tu lawyer and get rooked." (Laughter.) Mr, Payne added _ that the real way to reduce the cost of living was to reduce taxation. If ■ tho Government nationalised banking, it could buy up all war loan debentures cud war 1-onds with) State bank cheques, and so- lift the burden of interest from tho people; A State bank could pay off the war bonds and srvo the Dominion six or seven millions a year in interest. The nations were being asked to labour and save for all time to. pay -interest' on War debts. Yet everything" used and destroyed during the war had been produced by labour, while the war was over.

Practical Reforms. Dr. A. K. NEWMAN (Wellington Bast) said Mr.. Payne's idea seemed to be that it was a shame to tax the people as long, as the Government had access to a bale of paper and a printing press. ' Mr. Payne: Hear, hear. Dr. Newman added that Professor Fisher's book really was quite old and flyblown. It had been out eighteen months or two years, and there-were already newer theories in the field. The debate had become rather academical and had left tho actual faots. The Bill was a good one as far. as it but it did not go far enough. Britain had shown that Government could reduce prices of foodstuffs, and the present duty of the Houso was to face the samo practical issues. .There were plenty of practical measures that could be adopt : ed. The Government'could prevent any scarcity of butter. It could buy eggs in summer and hold them in cold storage till tho winter. It could standardise boots. The Government ought to face tho housing problem in a practical way. Dr. Newman said that tho House should at once' get down to business, and the first business .should be the reduction, of tho cost of living. He believed that it would be possible for the Government to do this. There had been profiteering for two or three years past, flie Bill might assist in the prevention of it, and he would support tho Bill. It should have been passed three years ago. But there was nior'o in this cost-of-living' question that mero profiteering.Th'e.peoplo wanted cheaper goods, and wanted them above all things. He believed that a Government '"with 6omo ginger and go in it" would have reduced tho cost of living long ago.. . Coal was ono example. Tho miner' worked hard to get colli, and the cost at the mine was i some few shillings a ton, while the' cost to the 'consumer -was ,£3 10s. Between thoso prices thero was room for much saving. Economy could be secured by organised distribution; that at present was out of date and wasteful.

"Whito Fuel." Tho Government had negleoted the hydro-electric power schemes; it would be ten years before tho Mangahao scheme was operating if tho Government went oh at the present rate. There was no good, reason why this work should not be completed in three years. This scheme would reduce tho cost of fuel, light, and transport in "Wellington. Housing in this city was a very grievous matter. The Government houses wero not cheap enough for the poorer workers, for rlie lowest rental was iss. Gd. a week. He thought the only way to give houses to the people would be by co-operation of Government and local authority iu much the same way as Ihcy were doins in England. Many people could not afford to pay mare than 12s. or 15s. a week at most, and houses at 225.r 6rt. a week were not accessible to tho poorer workers. He .hoped the Government would this, session bring down effective legislation. The Government should also see that, tho trusts controlling the people's fond should not be allowed to go on. The House 'ought' to .deal with these matters before dispersing, after soma vcars of no domestic legislation. It was idle to say' there was not - time. The Houso could,6it on Mondays and Saturdays, sit in the mornings to get the work through. Our tariff was very unfair, and revision would give relief to the peonle. He made an app?al to tho Government to do something'to help the temporary employees of the Government, who might be turned out of employment soon. These men ought not to be all turned out on to the labour market at onco.

About the Bill. Mr. R, P. HUDSON (Motueka) said that tho auccoss or failure of the Bill would depend on the personnel of the board, if the right "men wero appointed tharo wjultl be very good results from the Bill. Tho fixing of prices wafi an expedient, wbioh ought not to be tried except by experts Mr. B SEMPLE (Wellington South) said that the Government ought to have introduced tho Bill some years ago, and tho clauses-of it should havo been moro drastic in character than those in. this Bill. Ho declared that the cause of the social and industrial .unrest in tho world was a system of production for profit and not for use. Tho wealth producers or tho world were exploited by a parasiti* cal few, and this ,was tho cause of tho class struggle. It was not produced, aS was sometimes said, by the Labour agitators. ' . Mr. A. HARMS (Waitemata) urged the necessity for experts in ruitioular trades to give advice to the Board of Trad.e on ?questions of profiteering. He 6aid that tho local woollei mills had not been guilty of profiteering. Retailers. had sold New Zealand woollens at a high prioe to compensate for insufficient profits on imported woollens.' Shopkeepers were compelled to keep imported woollens because they could not get sufficient New Zealand made woollens.

Against Bolshevism. SIE JOSEPH WARD (Awavua) said he supported the Bill becauso ho believed that. Parliament should do : all it bould to prevent profiteering. Tho need of tho Hill in the • Dominion was apparent to everybody. The'need had not ' existed before tho war; but tho war had created abnormal conditoins, and had created a need for abnormal moasures, Tho people required protection from- exploitation. Tho rise in prices had not been confined to Now Zealand. It had been felt all over the world, and tho real cause was tho withdrawal of millions of men from production, and the stoppage of cultivation over thousands of miles of European territory. Districts that had been high. Iv uroductive for centuries past wero iitill out o£ cultivation. Unparalleled disorganisation had bee.i created. The result in New Zealand's case had been a marked increaso in prices duo to the purchase of supplies by famine-ridden countries. No local authority could have prevented tho rise. Tho conditions ihat had arisen could not bo overcome by abuse of public men. He was firmly of oninion that drastic measures were reouii'ed now for the public good. He was not against agitators, but ho was strongly opposed to exploitation and Bolshevism.

Air. Holland: Then you are against majority rule.

Sir Joseph AVard said every man who was opposed to murder and brutality, must bo opposed to Bolshevism. He stood for constitutional progress. He

wanted to sco tho full application, by constitutional means, of tho policy he had laid down some time ago, The Liboral Piwty ww pledged to that policy,

which, in his opinion, was a good policy, and a, strong policy. Ho hoped to see tho moderate workers assisting the country to make progress in a propor democratic way. He did. not believo m callins people names. , ~ Mr. Holland: Remember that the next timo you oall tho Labour Party Bolshevists. ~ Sir Joseph Ward: I did not call them Bolshevists. Mr. Jlolknd: You'insinuated it. Sir Joseph Ward: I did not. Mr! C. Ptatlmm (Duncdin Central): You are not ashnmed of being called a Bolshevist? Mr. Holland: No; not at nil. Sir Joseph Ward added that the foveroign could not return to its normal value until industry had been restored to a normal basis. He was not going to jump at anv new theories until thoroughly competent authorities had recommended a change in the basis of currency.

Not All Profiteers. Mr. T. A. 11. FIELD (Nelson) said iie approved of tho effort to stop pioneering, but there- were two sides to tho inestion. He quoted illustrations of imlorters who had lost money on their Ir.tnsnctions.

Mr. C. .1. TALHOT (Temulca) said lie would support tho Bill. Tho only fault about it was that it was long ovcidue. (Loft Sitting.)