THEWAK REGULATIONS

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 194, 12 May 1919, Page 6

THEWAK REGULATIONS

WATERSIDE WORKERS ASK FOR REPEAL DEPUTATION INTERVIEWS MINISTER THE GO.SLOW POLICY A deputation representing the Wellington Waterside Workers' Union interviewed the Acting-Prime Minister (Sir James Allen) on Saturday morning to nsk for the withdrawal of the War Regulations. Sir William Frascr (Minister for Public Works) and the Hon. A. M. Myers (Acting-Minister for Finance) were present. Tho deputation, which was headed by Mr. L. Glover, president of the union, consisted of some hundreds of waterside workers, who filled the old chamber of the Houso of Representatives. Mr. Glover said the members of the Waterside Workers' Union ■fjßlt strongly that the time had come for the repeal of -the War Regulations. Tho war was over,, and the Government- Tiad no right to continue the use of powers that had 'been tal;en, according to statements mndo at the time, solely for war purposes. A member of the union, Sidney Fonrnier, •had been excluded from the wharves under the regulations, and another member, William Parker, had been sentenced to twelvo months' imprisonment under the regulations on a charge of sedition arising- from the distribution of Rome papers. The regulations, he said, had been arbitrarily and vindictively put into operation in the case of Parker, whose alleged offence had nothing to do with the war.- It was a crime that an old man like Parkor should bo sent to prison. Mr. (Hover suggested that the regulations were, being , us«l in "class interest." \ . ■ ■

Mr. E. Canhn.ni said that the • "black list" of enemy firms had been abolished, and the Governinent ought not to maintain special war restrictions on the workers. The censorship had been removed from the but it had not been removed from the utterances of the workers, who were threatened all tho time with the very sweeping powers the Government had taken under the War Regulations Act. The mem'bers of the union did not all agree with .Parker, but they said he had a right to his opinion. The Ministers might say that they had law and order to preserve, but there was another side of the case. The workers had liberty to retain aaid they were trying to retain iti

Mr. A. Agneiv announced that as nn "industrialist" he regarded the Ministers as his servants and not as his masters. The War Regulations were simply a pon used by "tho master class against tho industrialists. If ever there had been a need for them, the time had passed. Parker had been sent to gaol for asserting his right to "freedom of expression." The regulations had not been used against exploiters, and they had not been used to der.l with influential people who sowed dissension by making false charges against bodies of. workers. Mr. Wright had been allowed to say that there wore 5M criminals' anion? 1500 workers on the Wellington waterfront. Mr. T. Brindle said thp injustice of tho present position was illustrated b> the fqct that members of the deputation, iu stating their claim, had been compel led to say tilings that a Court could construe as bavin? ii "seditious tendency."' The workers objected to tht regulations becanso they hampered efforts to better the conditions of Lnboui nnd wero a form of Pnissianism lvhicli many workers had crossed the seas, to destroy. They limited freedom of thought and expression, which w;re essential' a progress. The embargo had been taken off tho wharves,- and it should now bo taken off the workers. The Government could not 6top the development of ideas by putting men into gaol, but only hv bringing forward better ideas. He* was willing_ to iidmit that in framing the regulations the Government, might peihaps have been miiranted by "nod motives. (Cries of ■"So!") But the restrictions could not possibly be justified now. Mr.. ,T. G. Bruce said the regulations reversed the eld idea of British justice. A man was assumed to be guilty, and had hud to prove himself innocent. Tun Government had been able to penalise men without offering evidence against them. 1 iip workers wero hampered even' day, and their Press was hampered. '110 regarded the position as intolerable, and he hoped flio Government would take notice, because the workers could not remain subject to these regulations every day anil carry on their businesses.

Sir James Allen's Reply,

Sir 'James Allen said lie was glad to meet tho members of the union and hear their views. The waterside workers probably realised that the Government had been faced by exceptional conditions during the war. It could not be contended that conditions had yet reverted to normal. The exclusion of men from the wharves had been ordered fometimes on information that was confidenjal. Jn the cast of a man named Abbott the evidence had been shown to officials of the union. Voices: No! Never! Sir James Allen: That is bb. Yob must tnkc my word for it. He was warned off the wharf. A deputation asked me to do what I could for him. I did, and not him work in Government employ, inent. Toil have mentioned the case of William Parker. Parker was tried on a definite charge in a court of law, and the evidence has been published. lam not hwe to do what I believe to be harmful to Ne,v Zealand, and that w to create, or continue, a feeling of hostility between one class and another. I believe that the interests of New Zealand will bo best .served by making the conditions of employment for all sections of employees, proper and satisfactory, and by seeing that employers do their duty. Parker was tried in accordance with the ah' °f '"he land, made by Parliament All'adult personn in this country have the franchise, and they can elect' whom they choose. Hut the majority must nuo, and it is the duty of the minority to respect the laws by the majority: Parker was cor.viclcd for distriliuti"K a ka'.let of ii sedilion.-; nature." A waterside worker: "Question." Sir JniiH's , Allen: "Somebody says question. Of course, it is a question— a question that was submitted to the Court to decide." The Acting-Prime Minister read the leaflet, which advist-d workers to "go slow." lie did not beieve the majority of die men present believed they had any benefit to secure by going slow. The go-slow policy was more ruinous to (he workiin; cliifs than to anybud.v' el.se. since it clicked prouuclion, increased the cost of living, and made it more difficult for the workers to live. It v.-iis ruinous for the workers Hifinselvps, a, well as fnr the conn, try- . ihc Government ufiuld not interlere with the Court?. The solo way of protecting liberty was to set up independent tribunals to «o that the laws were obeyed.

Danfler fo Shipping. ■Mention had been made of the exclusion of ii man named Foiirnier from tho wharves, continued Sir James Allen. The position had been that there was a danger to shipping, and the Government had been compelled to take special precautions. (Cries of dissent.) "I say them was danger," (said tho minister. "I do not say from the wharf labourers. Them was dnnger, and thero -was actual damase to shipping, and some of you know it. The machinery of n ship was perloiisly interfered with, and there would have been <i;\ ; ;j!cr if she had ;;oin! to sea in that cnmjitioii. I do not remember the name of the vessel. (Voices: Tho Guanine.) In the circunistHnces, was it not proper, in the interests of the men t'oin" to sea, mul in I he interests uf trade am! commerce, that the Government should take stops to protect shipping and to exclude some people from the wharves?" There had been somo grounds of suspicion against Fouriu'er. On his arrest SO .303 curt ridges, 115 smaller cnrlridgi'S, and 15 revolver cartridges were found in his room, as well us .i lend hciuJed baton, n manifesto against conscription, an I.'W.W. membership'card, and other lilemturo, which seemed t« indicalo that I'Vurnier was not content to use moral suasion in suppoil of his views, lien wlio lu'd revolutionary and not revolutionary views did wot unci to possess such articles. The deputation had asked generally for tho repeal of tlio War Bemilatione. but

[ he did not think (he speakers had understood clearly what that meant. They hud merely indicated one or two regulations that wove distasteful to them. The regulations dealt with trade, and many other matters. The. "black list" had been justifiable, during the war, and he considered it was justifiable uow. (Voices: No.) "Do you want to trade- with tho men who killed your sons? (Uproar.) Well, let us divide ourselves into those who wish to trade with the men who killed our sons nnd those n-ho do not. Then there are war regulations which protect the property of soldiers and their dependants' Dp you want to repeal the regulations which protect soldiers against bankruptcy proceedings?" Sir James Allen added that if the members of the deputation let the Government know just what regulations were objected to he and the other Ministers would go into the position carefully. The Government, as representing the majority of tho people, mu.it decide. He liad ho doubt some of the regulations would bo repealed very shortly in any case. Mr J. Roberts asked if the minister had been told that tho ammunition found in Fournier|a room belonged to a sick soldier the man had nursed.

. Sir James Allen said the evidence had been cumulative, and in his opinion had justified tbo officers who administered the law. The regulations made it an offence to do anything wilfully or negligently to endanger a ship. He thought that this protection for people who went to sea ought to be continued in time of peace. . Voices: It is covered by civil law.

Aliens on the Wharves. Sir James Allen mentioned the regulation against the employment of aliens on the wharves. If the deputation wanted that withdrawn in order to make room for Germans on the wharves, then lie did not agree. ■ , Mr. Bruce: That is not a fair remark. You aro trying to leave an impression that we are wmiting to set Germans on the wharves. We came here for protection for our members. How many Germans are there on the wharves? How many are there likely to be? These regulations are being enforced against all our members. . , . „ Mr Roberts said the union wanted all necessary protection to be provided by civil law It wanted protection from "military martinets," who were driving some workers "almost to straight-out reV °Sir James Allen: "I am going to resent that 'straight-out.' They are not driving you." He was prepared to take the regulations to Cabinet. The desire of the Government was to protect the seamen, the watersiders, and everybody else. Hon A, M. Myers. The Hon. A. M. Myers said there was no justification in Not- Zen and today for any talk of class distinction The people of New Zealand had the fullest possible political power, and tho ma orifcy could rule. He believed in freedom of speech, but no u*cte«»Mp that it alone woe entitled to that pmiIce The more opinions wcro exchanged the'better. When people heard expressed an opinion with which they did not nVe they should not merely nssuroi. th\it tho opinion was wrong or dishonest. They should ask for reasons, demonstra. tion, or justification. He agreed with what Sir James Allqh had said about the goslow policy. When necessary work was not done, or was only prtrtally done, "od>: suffered. The steamer Bmnpji vas in Wellington with a cargo of coal, and he had allocated 1000 tons for dome* tic use, but not a ton had come of the ehip that day. The country was ( o0 0W tons short of coal. He would be very glad indeed if waterside workers could tell him how to increase the output of coal or make 2,000000 tons do the work of 2,750,000 tons. The position of the V ax Regulations would be affected shortly by the" conclusion of peace. Mr. Glover said Sir James Allen nnd shown him the evidence about Abbott, but in strict, confidence. Members ot nit Waterside Workers' Union had never expressed an opinion as to the yo-slow policy. They'could not be accused of it. Sir' James Allen: I did not accuse them. Mr. Glover, in closing the proceedings, remarked that if anybody should be blamed for going slow it was the Ixqvernment for not having a general election.