DEFENCE AFFAIRS

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 189, 30 April 1918, Page 7

DEFENCE AFFAIRS

fitting out of transports SERIOUS CHARGES MADE < RETURNED SOLDIERS The ( Defence Expenditure Commission Bat again yesterday for tho hearing of evidence. The chairman of tho Comtnission (Goneial Sir lioberfc Anderson) sat alone. Mr. Rhodes was absent in Auckland, and Mr.- Peter Earr was etill .unwell, 4 George Archibald M'Lean, of the firm of Gray and M'Lean, builders, • was t'lie first witness. He said that he had been engaged in' fitting up a certain one of tho transports in. which the Main Body had been taken from'this country. He Baid that ho had como before the Oomrojssion not to mako charges against any individual, but against the methods followed by the Transport Board. Whon his firm had fitted out the ship to which ho had referred, a complete cheek had been kept on all tho materials used on the job. Witness gave, an account of the system of ohecks adopted,- saying that the system was the same as that adopted on tho Clyde. Comparisons Invited. He invited tho board to look into the Comparative costs of his firm's work on the , and the cost of the ship fitted by.Campbell and Buiike at the same time. The cost-of the work done by .witness's firm -was about £4000, but as no check was kept, on the work it would have been easy for: him to have added ,■£2ooo or ,£3OOO on to his account. Even with this addition., his account would have been less than that of Campbell and 'Burke. He admitted that Campbell and Burke's ship took away a few more horses and men than the ship witness had fitted up,. Tho Defence authorities sent for M'Lean and for Campbell anjl' Burke to produce time-sheets, and the accounts of. the two firms were fully investigated. ; Witness had tried for . two years since thon to got contracts on transports, hut had been, unable to get the work. If given the work he could have saved the country thousands of pounds. Only, because of his persistence an writing to the board had' tenders , been at ..last called for this work, but the calling of tenders was.a farce, because the tenders were worthless jf.no check was. kept- on. the materials used. Firms w'eru simply asked at w.hat prices they would ' supply bolts and nails and .-'other material, and :supervision. Wit-

ness, put in tenders, :but knew, when he did so that it would be no. good.-. Ha felt all the tifiie.that ho would not get the work, "and .that ■ there were 6ome •underneath .forces somewhere. He could, if he had wished, liave put in lower , prices for supplies and labour, knowing that, as there was no check on either, he would have-been able to . swell • his charges by over-stating the quantities and the time woj'ked, and so have made up any deficiency. Ho did try later to i Eeo the tend;rs, but all he, could get from Mr, Walker was:."lt was a straight r go." Letters written to the Government on this matter.. had ' apparently been passed over, to-tho Transport Board to ; answer. The Lucky Firm, . Witness " stated that J 'he with other -builders' had made representations to have, the work more evenly distributed. For twelve or'eighteen months. Campbell and Burke's factory had be'on running all day,on. Sunday,fand he did not think, • as double' jktes had to be paid for all Sunday work, that it was fair that all this, '.work • should go to the one firm, while there were other builders ready-to-undertake the work in ordinary time. Witness said that he did not be. lieve that'-'-Campbell and "litirjee had .plant or'other facilities for doing this .work which lie:himself had no.t. He ask., ed the Commission to make a comparison, of the fitting up of transports by different firms, especially' the cost of the ! two ships fitted up for tho carriage of | the Main. Body, ono of them by his firm j and tho other by Campbell and Burke.' He had a suspicion also'that favouritism j was given also, to certain.mills in regard ] ' to,' the supply ef timber.- -He .declared i that tho two .vessels-to which he had j referred were fitted- out in exactly tho i same way. ' I > Other' Points. j The Commission ought to make inquirv. p-s to tlje" cost of painting of ships, and to take note of, the number of receptacles nnd paint brushes supplied. Inquiry' should bo niado also -into the wasteful practice which'had obtained of having one ship fitted out as a transport for the carriage of troops when there were other ships already, fitted! which had, been aN Jowed to leave the coast without, troops «t about the same time. He mentioned one or two alleged* instances of this sort of occurrence. Campbell and Burko had the work of building tho hospital on "time and line" nt Trentham, and also a job at Rotorua ut =£9000. Why could not an Auckland firm have had the Kotorua job, and so (have saved the expense of bringing men to the -work all the way from Welling, ton ? * • With regard to the constitution of tho Transport Board, he did Lot consider that the members wero any of them cap. I able of dealing with ship joinery work. 'As a matter of fact, when his firm fitted

B out the ship members pf the board were 'hardly ever on the ship, Witness said that bo wished to make uuiiplaint about <he part that drink had played in connection with work on tho ships. It was a serious thins to say, but ho mentioned it out of a senso ot C'lia 1 duty. He alleged that this firm kept drink on tjie job to entertain their friends—travellers looking for business. He alleged also that lie had seen contractors and members ,o£ tho Transport Board going into hotols together. Ho could not remomber which members of the board he had seen do this. Ho said that lie wished to givo tho facts to the public and to tho Commission in order that money might not in future be squandered and lost as it had been in the past. A Grave Charge. He had done his best to get sorao of the work, but he had been "up against a brick wall." If bo had got it ho believed that the country would have been saved a lot of money. It seemed to him that "a man's honesty is nothing more than a handicap to him,'" in trying to get transport work. There must be some collusion between Campbell and Burke and some members of the Transport Board. He could not-account for the continued preference for Campbell and Burke in any other way. Tho chairman: Do you sny that Campbell and Burke have been giving any remuneration wrongly to -members of tho board? Witness: I don't say that altogether, but I think the public can draw their own conclusions about that. Witness said he thought there ought to have been a man on the board who understood the work of ship's joiners, tho work that had to Be done on transports. The men on the board did not know much about ship's carpentering. The chairman: Do you think tho system has improved ? Witness: N0,,-1 don't think it has improved at all. The_ same people have ueen In charge of it from tho beginning, and no proper cheoks are yet kept i on tW time work on.6hips. ... He add- j ed that he was satisfied that he could j have saved the country much money if j ■liis system had been adopted. He could •have made his points much more strongly but that the other firms, who knew the facts would not come forward to give evidence. Witness was pressed to give the names' of the firmß, but ha would not, although ho did promise to thiuk over this mattor.

Training of N.C.O.'s. Sergeant-Major L. Stephenson, • Thirtyeighth Eeiniorcementa, said that ho had been in camp fourteen months, but had not- been abroad. He wished to draw attention first of'all to the waste that nent on in'the training of n.c.o.'s. A man went in ns'a, privateswith a draft, was selected as a n.c.0., and was carefully and well trained for four months. After that period a fullytrained n.c.o. bo allowed to transfer to mounted rifles or artillery as a private. He knew of .twelve or fifteen cases of this sort of thing, and he was ono sergeant-major in one company. Good infantry n.c.o.'s were allowed to transfer to artillery, and to go into the ranks'with that branch, and so the .£l2O or so spent on their special n.c.o. training was lost to the country. He mentioned the case of a man who had just left New Zealand, as a bombardier in the arlillory, after fourteen months. in camp, it had taken fourteen months to make the man a bombardier, whereas if he had gone into the artillery in the Beginning ho could have reached that Tank in four or five months. The training of n.0.0/s was not now so satisfactory as it usad to be. "Formerly the n.c.o.'s could get commissions, and thib was an incentive to them to work. Now, a man went into tho n.0.0. class with the rank of corporal, and many men ill the classes did not try to become efficient. Witness said that in the. Thirty-fourth Reinforcements there-had been many men sent away unlit. - The training of that draft was so light that it did not try 'out the unfit men. Many men in' the diVft never did a route march. There were no medical examinations. Not since he: had been in camp had a man in his company been medically examined. It seemed to witness that there was a general, slackness pervading the camps. The instructors were tired of their jobs; they had nothing to try for—no promotion in si|»ht; and they were quite safe from dismissal. Most of the instructors were now becoming lackadaisical. He did not-consider that any improvement could ba effected by having instructors returned from tho front, unless the men were given some batter aim to work for, some hope of promotion. Transports Again. ! Captain W. B.' Kirkwood, Secretary of the. Transport Boa?d for the past twelve months, was called. • The chairman submitted to'witness <i brief precis of the evidence of the witness ll'Lean. Captain Kirkwood ssid that lie had knowledge only -incidentally of the matters dealt with regarding the fitting out of the two transports referred to. These were Main Body sWps. There was no Transport Board, no Navy, or any organisation at that time. The Government said to tho owners: "We want the ships. Get them fitted out as quickly as possible." Now tho rystem had been altered completely. The shipping companies now did the work, as agents for the Govern, ment, and the check kept by tho companies was complete. lie lenew the system of accounting, followed, and was satisfied that it was satisfactory. There wcro three shipping firms, and they alt employed different firms for shipwrights' work. The choice of a shipwright to do

a piece of work was left to the com. panies. For tho past twelve or thirteen months no ship had been fitted out on account of the New Zealand Government. A ship was always fitted out to the instructions and specifications of tho Transport Board, but tho payment made by tho New Zealand Government was for tho carriage of troops only. With regard to the two Main Body ships mentioned bv M'Lean, no fair basis of comparison ot the cost of fitting out could be made. M'Lean's ship was a passenger 6hip, in which, say, the Muoking-rooms could be used for a hospital, tho social hall for some other purposo, and so on. AVitei supply, ventilation, cooking, and food storago wero all provided for. Tho other ship was a cargo carrier, and it had to be pierced from ond to end with ports and vontilation provided for. The ship had to bo almost rebuilt inside, and fitted with accommodation for a very large number of men and horses Tho work was much more difficult and moro expensive than M'Lean's job. Ho was,satisfied that in the timo availablo tho bestpossible had been done and satisfied also that tho country, had not been, overcharged. Repatriation.

Douglas Seymour, general secretary ot the New Zealand lieturned Soldiers' Association, said that ho wished to give evideuco on 'the suggestion that the work of . the Discharged Soldiers' Information Department should bo administered by local associations. He said that he was quite unable to commit the association to a policy in regard to the matter, for while fiomo local issociations could do tho work'and wero prepared to do the work others had not the personnel to do it. The responsibility, however, would have .to be on the State. Tho association would have to be agents only for the Govern, ment. The advantage tho branches of the association had was that soldiers returned came moro readily to the association than to tho Government. There were all sorts of men among the returned soldiers, and some wero inclined to adopt a somewhat tr.uculent attitude towards a State Department which they would not be üble to carry off in dealing with their own association. An objection to the methods of the D.S.I. Department, v:as that they made' inquiries through the police. It was sometimes tho experience of returned men that their first communication was a peremptory summons to attend at the police, station.. He would , ask tho Commission also to inquire as to the number of fit officers retained iu Now Zealand as indispensable for r.dministrativo ■ duties. The association had had, advice that a number ,of men were so held in Dunedin, but the association was not in a position to make inquiries. With regard to, hospital ships, it was suggested that the /personnel, for tlieso should be unfit men or partially fit men, and that the lit men now on those dutiie should be- released lor service at the front. .He suggested also that the soldiers' land settlement icheme of the Government should be organised more fiilly, and that the policy should be more definite and. constructive. He jwinted out difficulties in tha way of successful settlement of unskilled men, especially when the* land and stock were purchased at high prices. At present a settler had tho chances of making much money or making failure. He would prefer some 6ystem which would give the man a certainty of some return for liis labour on land, the Government retaining, owner-, ship of the land. Under this scheme'the Government have to bo sure that tho soldier to be settled "vas a, man likely to make some success of farming If a man lacked previous experience he be, required to undergo some training The Mufti Allowance.

Claude W. Batten, vice-president .of. the Now Zealand Soldiers' Association, spoke of the mufti allowance to returned men. When a man was dis-> charged ho was supposed to have in his possession two complete uniforms, two sets of underclothing, and a greatcoat. He was allowed to wear only the underclothing and boots after his', discharge. In addition he was allowed 305., and ho understood the value of these clothes was Jill The. allowance of 305.. was quite inadequate, and if an allowance was to be given at all it should be adequate. These uniforms were unnecessary. Two uniforms wore certainly not needed. Some might prefer to keep one. Ho would suggest that If one uniform were allowed the Government might be able to increase the mufti allowanco. But the kit whioh a soldior waß allowed to retain was not necessarily new. It was not issued prior to discharge, but was in tho man's possession at that time. Much of it might at that time be old. The chairman: Can you givo mo any reason why a man should get a mufti allowance? The forco to which I had tho honour to belong not give us anymufti Allowance—not a bob!

Mr. Batham said that lie could express no opinion on the because lie was present representing tho association. He' thought, however, that tho Government, by giving an allowance, had' declared that "one should be mado, and the association held that if there was to\be an allowance it should bo adequate It was impossible to get a serviceable suit for less than ,£4 or .£s.^ The chairman said that the association might, bo w i ser to to return ono uniform'and accept the value of it in increased allowance. Mr. Batten said that the association would not be prepared to bargain on those lines. . The commission adjourned until. 10 a.m. to-day.