THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 177, 16 April 1918, Page 6

THE HOUSE

The House Representatives ruet at 11 a.m.

The Finance Bill was received from, the Legislative Council at 11.25 a.m. Sill JOSEPH WAIID moved that theamendments be agreed to. Ho said, however, that ho would submit an amendment which he hoped would meet tho demand of the Labour members—that in any organisation of labour no labour should be compulsorily diverted for the private gain of individuals. Sir ,los(ph Ward said that to have inserted a provision in these terms in. the Bill would have neutralised its effect. Tho Government, however, had decided to introduce tho following amendment:— "All regulations made under this section shall be laid before Parliament within 14 days after tho making thereof if Parliament is then in session; and if not, within 14 days after the commence, ment of tho next ensuing session. If the House should by resolution declare that it does not csse-nt to any such iegulations, such regulations shall cease to havo any force or effect as from tho date of passing of such resolution or as from such later date as may be specified in the resolution."

Sir Joseph Ward said that 10 cno could tell what the state of things in Now Zealand might be in the cwirse ot the next few months, and it would be necessary to prepare for the organisation of labour, although he did not t.unk it would be" possible to make an organisation immediately. Sir. Parr: Your amendment met:n<? that nothing will be done for six months. Sir Joseph \Var<l said tliat this would not be tho case at all. Representatives of Labour would be consulted when the regulations were being

framed. If the regulations were made at once they would be immediately operative, but tho House would be asked to consider them when it met next session. In the event of the Houso dissenting tho regulations would be thereby Tepealod. He moved that the amendments bo agreed to, with the addition of the clause he had proposed. Labour Members Obdurate. Mr. J. M'COMBS (Lyttelton) said that if the regulations were made- in a fortnight they would become immediately opemtive, and tho House would have no opportunity of reviewing them for six months. In England similar regulations had been used to compel people to work for tho private gain.' of others, "his had led to such u state of affairs that they could not longer bo tolerated, and in England now workers were compelled only to work in munition factories. He spoke of a resolution of a meeting of farmers at Wnitnrn, demanding that labour be conscripted for farm work at soldiers' rates of pay. He opposed the adoption of tho amendments. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) said ho believed that the real purpose of tho clause was that workers should bo "taken by the scruff of tho neck and used for private gain." Already employers in some industries had becomo parties to agreements not to employ workers from other works belonging to signatories to the bonds. Ihe purpose of

these bonds was to enslave workers, and he insisted that this clause was for the same- purpose. No sane man would object to tho organisation of labour for Uβ safety of the State, but ho would never agree to the compulsion of labour for private gain. If lh o Government would do as tho British Government had done tho Labour members would be content. In England national service had been dropped in favour of a modicum of control over munition work. He would be in favour of national service nndor tho Crown, but not of compulsory 6ervice of workers for private gain. Mr, Luke and Mr. Hindmarsh, Mr. J. P. LUKE (Wellington North) said that it was the duty of the Government to press for the passage of the «lauso without the delay of a single day. Mr. Luke charged the Labour members with having obstructed tho ordinary business of the House in this matter, and his argument seemed to be in the direction of accusing men guilty of such action of lack of patriotism. Mr. A. H. HItoDMAUSH (Wellington South) devoted a little attention to tho member for Wellington North. "I won- &**," he said, "what the Prime Minister thought of liis latest recruit during that speech." Ho ridiculed the accusation of unpatriotic conduct against men who had merely insisted on discussing for a few hours this very important Bill. Mr. Hindmarsn asked if the Government would introduce a Bill very gravely affecting the farmers without telling them what was intended. He agreed that the country should be organised,

but it was ridiculous to assert that the Government's proposals for organisation must not' bo consideied and discussed by the people concerned. The Bill was not required for the dispatch of troopships. Mr. Miussey: It may be. Mr. Hindmarsk asked just what the Government intended to do under tho scheme. Were men to be taken from non-essential industries and placed on the farms? A Case for Caution. Dr. NliW'AtAiN said twit at tke risk of annoying ike memuer tor Wellington Norm n<3 wus going lo discuss tne Dili. It was almost an nupeitiuuiice inr a new member to lecture tne liouse in such a .way. All members were anxious to support and assist tlm Government! There was very strong feeling in favour of the clause in the country, but some m tuat support came from pu'oplo who were animuied by a deaire lor personal gaiu. Mr. Massey: 1 hope not. Dr. Newman: "It is so." He had heard of people who wanted to huve opposing industries put out. Mr. Massey: You should give instances. That is a very serioas thing to say.

J)r. Newman said lie thought the Prime Minister should make his intentions clear. The clause was giving the Government absolute power to do whatever it pleased as soon as Parliament, closed.

Mr. Mnssey: Whatever is necessary. Br. Newman said many members could not agree with the Efficiency Board's

ciissiScntion of industry. New Zealand was not making munition, and there was ia great deal of unrest in the country

to Government interference. The : House would bs satisfied if the Prime ; Minister would tell them what the Bill iwas intended to effect during the next ;six months. I More Powers Needed. The Right lion. W. F. MASSE Y (Prime Minister) said thai; ])r. Newman had made tho statement that there was diaBatisfaction with Government interference with the requisitioning of wool and so on. He wished to state in reply to that assertion that there was extreme satisfaction with the action of the Government in requisitioning articles required by the Imperial Government. If it had not been possible to make- that arrangement New Zealand would not have been able to carry on its share of the war. It had boen said that the clause had not been fully considered by the Houso. Ho argued that the House had already considered the matter very fully. The object ot the Bill was to provide for possibilities or oven the probabilities that might arise before tho end of the war. Mr. Payne: You have enough, power under the War Regulations. ; Mr. Mnssey: Wo have a great deal of j power under the War Eegulations, but our legal adviser told us that more i power was necessary. This additional power, he eaid, was in the clause under consideration. The clause was considered necessary wheu the Government had it under consideration some time ago. It was more than ever necessary to-day, and he made this statoment in view of the statement that would bu made to the House by the Defence Minister as soon as opportunity offered. To tlioso who said that the Bill was in the interests of farmers or of employers he would say that tho Bill would apply to fanners as well as to peoplo in the cities, and to employers as well as to workers. If we were to do cur duty to our country and to our Empire during the next twelve months it i\ould bo necessary for us to close down a number of non-essential industries in order to provide the necessary labour for other industries or to find the men required by

the Imperial Government for tho V'estcrn front Mr. Fletcher: Don't leave anything to the Efficiency Board! Mr. Masscy: The Efficiency Board has done particularly good work, but this matter will not bo given to the Efficiency Board to administer. What of Sport? Mr. Lee: What about non-easuntial sports ? Mr. Massey: I think that too much of the time of tho men of this country is wasted in what is called sport duringtho war period. In sayiug that 1 may say that i am not: a believer in a policy of sackcloth and ashes, but i do s&y wo are giving too much time to race meetings and to on. Mr. Massey, referring to angry words i in the House, said: "I do hope that theserecriminations will stop. I do say that at a time like' this, \vheu_ tho Empire is fighting tor existence, when tho best blood of tho race is being poured out, I do think we should endeavour to present a united front." (Hear, hear.) Industrial Organisation.

SIR JOHN FINDLAY (Hawkc's Bay) said that the ■ clause, properly understood, might optn a iiew industrial era. Other countries had found that industrial organisation could mean improved conditions of labour, higher wages, and larger output. The powers given v inder the clause, if applied in tho proper spirit, would help >iew Zealand to meet great and \ growing liabilities. The British Government had adopted regulations oven more drastic ftiian_tho Dominion Government proposed, and the results had besn vastly increased efficiency. New Zealand could look tot splendid results from the effective operation of a national service scheme.

Mr, M'Combs Moves an Amendment,

Mr. J. M'COMBS (Lyttelton) moved that tho following proviso should be added to the clau-ie:—"Providtd always that nny regulations made under this section fihall contain a provision that no labour shall bo transferred from niiy trade, industry, or occupation to tiny other for the purpose of private gain." The Government had said that tb'tre ivowld lio no private gain under tho clause, and should be willing to accept this proviso. The Prime Minister had even said that provision of the kind asked would be added to the regulations. Sir Joseph Ward: But )ou want to put it in die Act, which must be flexible. Mr. M'Comlw said the clause as it stood would stir up strife in the country. Hβ had sent ft telegram to certain Labour unions summarising the clause, and inviting them to protest. His telegram had said that tho Government proposed to "procure, exuct, and enforce national service" in any industry whether under the Stale or airy other employer.

Mr. Massey: is that all you sent? Mr. M'Combs: This is not an exact copy of what I sent. Jlr. Massey: Well, I would liko to know what you did send. Mr. M'Combs said if (he Government was not going to conscript Inborn - for private gain lot tlie> undertaking bo embodied in tho Act. The Government had already power to close a non-essen-tial industry and insist that every man should bo occupied in work of national vfiluti. AVhy did it want wider power? There were some farmers demanding that labour should bo conscripted . to work for them at soldiers , pay. These farmers were making war profits. Ho realised the importance and the value of national organisation, but he asked for the embodying in the legislation of tho

safeguards Hint Mr. Massey and the Efficiency Board had sni<l wore necessary. Proviso Unacceptable. Sill JOSEPH WARD said ho wished to put on record the statement of a great leader of the Labour pnrty, who had sat in the House wliilo the clause was under discussion. He began to rend from a letter, but Mr. M'Combs raised u point of order, saying that it was a comment on the proceedings of the House. Ho said he would insist upon the point of order unless the name were given.

.Sir Joseph Ward did not go on wifh tliD matter, except to twit Mr. M'Combs with being afraid to hear the statement. He said that the proviso would make the clauso of no effect at all. The proviso would make it impossible for the Government to take any steps regarding any industry or business without acquiring it and managing it, and this was too much to ask of the Government. Tho proviso would operate to the detriment of Labour, and would completely tie the hands of the Government, making any organisation impossible. He protested that sufficient undertakings of the Government's good intent towards the workers in this matter had been given, and that there was no good ground for (ho Labour members' opposition and distrust. More Objections. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) said that when the Government wished to do something atfcctihij farmers it called a conference of the interests affected. No such course had been followed on this occasion. Mr. H. G. ELL (Christchurch South) said ho cttuld oee nothing sinister in the clause, and he could not join in tiro opposition to it. He had always supported Labour and Labour legislation, and if ho thought there was 'inything intended tu the detriment of Labour nr.w he would oppose the clause with, all his energy. Mr. W. A. VEITCH (Wangamii) said lhat the amendment moved by the member for Lyttelton bad no such purpose or effect as was supposed. The amendment said in effect not that ihe clause would be inoperative ns applying to pri-vately-owned industries, but that workers could not bo transferred fiwn one position to another for the sake of private gain. He did not think tho demand for proper safegunrde was unreasonable, especially as Ministers did not appear to bc'oi one mind as to what was intended, and us Ihe Prime Minister had not the full confidence of the workers. Personally he vas at a loss to know what tho Government n.eant to do He vas not opoaed to national or-

°Dr. THACKER (Christchuroh East) said that the reason for the objection to the clause was that the democracy had not confidence to allow the Government to administer a drastic law. •Mr A Walker and Mr. A. H. Hindmivrsh spoke in favour of the amendment. The Bill Passed. A division on the amendment was taken at 8.15 .p.m., and the amendment was rejected by 54 votes to 9. Tho minority was composed of Messrs. M'Combs, Payne, Walker, Hannah, Veitch, T. A. H. Field, Glover! Jennings, and Dr. Thacker. _ Sir Joseph Ward's original motion was carried by 59 votes to 3. The minority on this occasion was reduced to Messrs. Paj-ne, Walker, and M'Combs. The amendments were agreed to. ELECTRIC POWER. At 7.30 p.m. the Electric Power Boaid Bill was introduced by Governor's Messnco and read a first time. SIR JOSEPH WARD explained that he bad made a promise to tho Southland Leaguo to introduce- this Bill in order that it might be circulated, and he was fulfilling the promise. The Bill would bo circulated among members after tho session. The Finance Bill was returned by His Excellency the Governor-General at 9 'Members sang the National Anthem, and the House adjourned at 9.10 p.m.