MOTUIHI INQUIRY

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 76, 22 December 1917, Page 10

MOTUIHI INQUIRY

HOW THE ISLAND CAMP WAS RUN .

COLONEL TURNER'S ATTITUDE DURING THE SCARE

GENERAL ROBIN CALLED

PRISbNERS'GUARD AND ECONOMY

By Telegraph—Special Reporter.

Auckland, December'2l. The Military Court of Inquiry investigating the escape of prisoners from Motuihi Camp was continued today. Lieutenant-Colonel Tprner was still before the' Court giving evidence. The president: On what clo «oil base. youf assumption that military police pati ok should bo unarmed?—'"'On .my experience as a ; commanding officer under peace' conditions and on active service. ./..'My idea; is that a military police patrol may wear side-arms, but is never armed with' a rifle. In my own regiment the military police were never armed, and my idea is that the term military police-would convey to any officer of authority to whom it was used tho fact that the men .vere unarmed. , Have you ever seen unarmed guards for prisoners of:.war.?—"Only at Motuihi^utnrMiav^:read>of' wmps- where prisoners' wire held only by. a few. civil police. " . I have had, ; no experience prisoners of 'war 'except- at Motuihi. The president : •From- the time you took over till the time of the scare on November 20 would your dispositions havo prevented the escape of prisoners if a launch had called for .hemr Colonel Turner: So long as -here was an armed guard.' If » cunning plan '■had been laid it might have succeeded It was-impossible to "keep the island under observation all. the time, it would have been possible for Mie prisoners to have been taken off even wmlo there'was an armed guard. - Tho' president: You thought there was no dancer of.this occurring. ■ Colonel Tumor: From my knowledge of the prisoners and the opinion I had formed of them, I was sure that such an occurrence would not take place. This was so until the See Adler men The president: Did you think when the,- arrived that a launch might come to take them Away?. .

Von Luokner Clad of Rest and Peace,

Colonel Turner: It was not in my mirid, but the fact: of: the introduction to the camp of tiyo adventurous leaders made, it more likely. I dont say that I changed-my mind at once, but I knew that I had two naval leaders on. the island. j? n Von Luckner came to the vsland no said :;'.'Well,'-I've.done my share. I am':glad; tb : : have.;rest and peace here for a' time.":" v : '■'> •• .. The • president: When'these men arrived did it occur to -you to alter your dispositions?—'''No,: it could not bo done without increasing the strength ot I mean from the point of view .of safety, leaving the,question of cost.aside? Colonel Turner: .1 did talk over those sort-of things, but came to the conclusion tliat no' 'change.'could be. made without :an'increase of expense. 1 did. consider • my .'dispositions, but-was 01 opinion that anv change won! ■ak : increase in tho. strength ot the detachment. and-further-iincrease in exagaiftSi/ ? had been frequently warned. The president: Having that feelin„, did not you think you should; have leported the;matter? . Colonel Turner- I did have compensations officially and otherwise with the O.C.D. on the situation.

v HaU no Misgivings. The..president: Had you any misglColonel Turner: 1 will say "No" to thai, sir, because I could not see what they would do if they,,got away. The president: /When there was a scare you mßde certa'in_ drastic altßratioAsV':'Why; did .jrott after Wo nigots co back to' normal arrangements r Colonel Tufher: Those, arrangemouts were.made to"contain, the prisoners .in the'barracks in case there should anv firing from the launches, which might cause them to rush to get away. The president: 'AVhy did you revert to the normal order two nights later. Colonel Turner: Because I was not advised that the launcn patrol was being continued. • The president: Did you not ask an} qU Sonel ? Turner: I did ring Tip District Headquarters. 1 torget what the answer was, but I think it was flere not coming to-night, cr somethin like that. - After that I did not think it ;iwas necessary to take these extra precautions, because so far as 1 v. as aware the patrolling had ceased I had no further advice that it was still coin" on, and I had no reason to suppose that it was going on. I was therefore of opinion that the extra precautions for containing the prisoner? were not necessary. The president: After the scare on November 20, did it strike you that anv attempt would be made to take the prisoners off the island from witColonel Turner: 1 had the opinion from what I knew, and' what I heard that .there might not be much in it. J had always the idea, that such a dung was possible, hut not at al. piobable. The president: Would you say most iß ffs le T,r« t r: IMi «- Ve, nie P presi(lent: Tbis is most import ant. 1 want to get at what was ir y °Coloiiel Turner: Yes, Imvill say extremely improbable. I still think so. The president: After the scare die tou think that an attempt to escapt in a launch from the island was pos. siblc? ■ ' ■ Colonel Turner: Do you mean « launch or my launch? ■ Tho president: I mean any launcn ai

all Colonel Turner: I did not think it possible that they would escape m my launch because of the precautions that were taken. Tho only chance that occurred was in'tho few minutes on the evening when tho escape was made. The president: If you had thought it possible you would have altered your pr CoToneTTurner: That is so. I did not think they would snip her up tho minute after I arrived. 7lie president: Did it strike you that there was nothing to prevent determined men from breaking into your quarters and tnkinc the sparking pint's of the launch? Colonel Turner: No, it didn't occur to mo. I, am t,'ie only man in New 7>aiind who knew those men, and cons&tfTO what, I know of my prisoners I ;*/. think any man would make tho iitemnt. My quarters were in full view of the guard room door and the sentry-on the night-heat. iistte president^...How ( , t far f , away„are vWmiarters fron^he'^u'kfd'room?:,t 'Tolonel Turner: Aboiit-.TO 'yards. The president: But on a "dark night you ran only seo about ton yards. Witness: I say the distance is /0 yards, hut that "is only an estimate, and the guard could he'ar. _ The president: But supposing you are

asleep in your 'jed, and these men como st-ealthily round? 1 Colonel Turner: All tilings are possible. I know that I can hear men m the guard room talking when I am in bed. On a dark .nljjnt the men on guard might not see figures round my house, but the guard could hear them. The president: You say you felt your prisoners would not attempt to escape. Did you feel the samo way about the two See Adler officers? Did you think they would make the attempt Colonel Turner: I never thought or such a thing. - The president: You thought that rescue from outside was out of the question, and that escape in your own launch was practically impossible, and the idea of overwhelming you on the island never entered your head?

No Idea of Being Overwhelmed. Colonel Turner: 1 never had an idea of being 'overwhelmed. The president: What was tho object of your dispositions?. Colonel Turner: The dispositions were not made with the idea of escape, but With the idea of keeping the prisoners under observation aild control. The president: Did you wish to keep them under observation ? Witness: Yes, in order that an attempt to escape could be chccked. The president: Did it ever strike you to placo a guard on the wharf? ' Colonel Turner: I could have used a hundred men if I had orders to protect that island properly. I do not consider that it was necessary to guard the wharf. Any part of the coast of Motuihi Island can be worked without tho wharf, which is only a ence.The president: But your launch was moored near there? Colonel Turner: I considered that a patrol on Tower Hill, would command more points, and I did not consider .a guard oil the wharf essential. The president: You had your launch jthere, and the men on guard some distsincG awav ? Colonel Turner: If I had thought it necessary to guard t!<o launch I should have put a man on the beach, and not on tho wharf. Wo have assumed that after 6.30 p.m. we have had the prisoners safely confined, and our guard at night has been confined to the barracks yard. ' The president,: The escort on _ tho launch and yourself were practically unarmed? /

Witness: Yes. ; The president: Don't you think there was a risk in that? Col. Turner: No, sir, because the two German prisoners employed, on the launch had been with me the . whole, time that I had been on the island, and my opinion was 'that they were thoroughly to be relied upon. My opinion on that point is not much shaken now. . Continuing his evidence, Colonel Turner said that six of the prisoners who escaped were guarded in huts on the island and not in barracks. The remainder wore in barracks. Occasionally two prisoners were allowed to use a small flat-bottomed mint, a little more than a box, for fishing round tho

island. Theso tiro prisoners were not among those who escaped. If a launch was at the island by day the dinghy would be on the shore, but it would be immediately alongside the beat or the outer hill patrol. It was a busy point on the island, constantly passed bv all those on the island. 'The president: An escaping prisoner of war is liable to be fired on? Colonel Turner: Yes. The president: Will you tell us how, under this svstem of unarmed police patrols, this could be done if a prisoner mado a dash? Colonel Turner: The system of police natrols was adopted after two andla half years of experience of most of the ™The president: And you have told us that in vour opinion there was no probability of an attempted escape. Colonel Turner:. Yes.

Ceneral Robin' Called. Ji'ajor-General Robin was the next witness called. The president: In July of ihit> jeai Colonel Turner says ho interviewed you in AVellingtou, and that you spoke to him about reducing the guard bccauso of economy. General Robin: ... . Tho president: Did you give Km any instructions? . "General Robin: The interview was quite general, and the subject was. the exercise of economy . throughout the whole system, including wo talked of how economics could be effected, mentioning' the guard, _ ?mong oilier matters, and the possibility ot introducing police patrols. I cd to him, "Why Mow out jim cut-and-dried military rule about the powers of the guards?" and we discussed adopting a system which nngnt enable us to get more out ofotho men theie. It was it genera] talk about the matter. He was to think it over, and discuss it further with the commanding officer of the district. Oil Novembci I interviewed Colonel Turner again. " Tlio president: Could you give us the fist of that interview? _ 8 General Robin: I asked ..uestions about some things, that the mister had had bis attention called to. You will find details in my report to the | Minister of November 23.

Report to the Minister

This report, which was read, dealt Dostlv with detail matters of rdmimsiration in the camp bearing on tho subect of economy. The following are :be only interesting passages of the ■eiiort:— Only once did it happen that a prisoner was left on the launch at {•light. The launch does_ not belong to tho Government, it is die 'private property of Lieutcnant-uol-onel Turner, in charge of the fi.iard oi' this occasion. When tho n.ght was so rough that the . anduig ■could not be effected at the little wharf, thev had to proceed to the sheltered side of the island, Micborini' on lee of same, until the weather abated. The commandant uses one of the prisoners to • run the launch, and the man is always under egcort of the other band on the launch, and is never left, alone. When waiting at tho depot at Dovonport he is under the surveillance of the guard at the detention barracks there. In the interests of economy the hours of portion of the guard were altered more on the nolice system. These guards wore"side arms only to obviate the carrying of a rifle for double tho ordinary t,oi£ of duty. Tho arms and ammunition are all safeguarded, and' are available in emernpjicv. Re visitors on _ passes: This"'concerns four married people viz.. Mrs. Langguth, Mrs. Hansen, Mrs. Stainzcr (whose husband is very ill), Mrs. Kron eldt, mi Mrs. Rindt. These visit the island about once a month. The> cannot carry parcels backwards antl forwards, but being able to convey verbal messncres T think consideration should be given to withdraw-

ing these passes. Tho Defence Minister's notes on this report were as follow:— The arms were not in my opinion safeguarded when I visited 'Motoiihi. I presume you refer to a later date. I think all passes should bo jyithdrawn .meanwhile, -'the president :' Was there any refer* ehM.to 'tho See Adler officers? General Robin: Yes; I asked about the position generally m view of the arrival of theso men, and ho said that he was quite satisfied and that_ tnore was nothing to be feared. In just a

general way I suggested that when ono felt safest was the very timo that one should redouble the efforts and precautions. Ho said ho was satisfied with tlie conduct of the prisoners and said he did not expect anything to happen. I would draw the attention of the Court to the fact that when I emphasise the necessity for economy I do not mean that it should be at the expense of efficiency, as any military officer should recognise." _ He added that in the course of this interview lie did not mention the plot to escape referred to as "the scare," as he preferred this to come to Colonel Turner through the officer commanding the district. He gave evidence of the scare consequent upon information recewed through the police, and the orders for a. motor patrol of the island. These precautions were not to he relaxed, but were to be maintained week after week in ease the attempt should dg mtiuG unexpectedly.

Major Lilley's Evidence, Major Lilley, Director of Personal Services, said that lie had been responsible for the custody of the prisoners if war. The place of internment for particular prisoners might be determui--3d by tho A.G. on his advice, or might )D suggested by tho Chief of the Genei al Staff, and such a suggestion would i-cnorallv be carried out. The question the 'transfer of a prisoner from Somes Island to Motuihi would be dealt ivitli by his office, but would not ori«nato there. It might originate in Jifferent,.ways, usually with an application from a prisoner himself. lne :ommaiider at Motuihi might correjpond ■ with him regarding the precauions he was taking for the safeguarding of the prisoners, but not necessarily Unless he was informed that District Headquarters had received a copy if the letter he would return the letter ;, for action" to District Headquarters it Auckland. , . , , , The president: Supposing he relt that he had not sufficient personnel tc ;uard the prisoners, to whom would lie iP Maior Lilley: I should think to District Headquarters, Auckland. He ought not to send an application ol this kind direct to me. The authority for additional personnel for the detachmcnt would bo obtained by the [Commandant at Motuihi through District Headquarters, and not by dircct lpplication to me. ' The president: Do you know of any instructions to Colonel Turner on taking over ? _ Major Lilley: No. • The president: You might say wny pou visited the island oil December 1] 1917. . Major Lilley: In consequence of a minute received hv tho G.O.C. from the Minister of Defence. It was in ;onsequence of that minute that 1 ivrote the letter dated November 27 to Colonel Turner. The matter appeared to be of some urgency, and therefore I wrote direct to Colonel Turner, orwardinfj. a copy to District Headquarters at Auckland. The matter caused me some anxiety up till Decern* ber. The letter I wrote embodied the roints brought up by the Minister. I -ame here on December 1 and went to Motuihi that day. Tho president: Do you remember ivhnt you said to Colonel Turner ? Major Lilley. Yes. I told him that [ had conic to discuss the whole matter as contained iii fay letter of fso-,-ember 27. Ho told me that lie had ilready discussed the noints with the Minister and the G.O.C. This altered my attitude, and I then adopted toyards Colonel Turner an advising attitude. I did not know what had been said. He showed we a draft of the otter ho was going to send in reply to my letter. I suggested that there . should bo an interpolation towards the end of the letter that tho introduction of tho bee Adler element on to the island had altered .lie whole aspect. AVe took the position by and large. _ I don t ■think ivc answered every point. I don t ,hink he asked my advice-on the gullibility of tho precautions he was talcng to safeguard the prisoners; in fact, [ can not remember that lie. ;.skod foi my advice oil the steps which ho might iako to prevent the escape of the pnsiners. Ido not remember lliat Coljnol Turner referred to tho :hflicnlt/y >f keeping the two See Adler olhcers .tnder close surveillance, hut cu this ■joint I would not carc to contradict Colonel Tumor's evidence. I lertainly iid tell liini that the responsibility for guarding the See Adler men, was lus affair. I remember distinctly saying ,o him that it was his "pigeon." In Vugust, 1017,' as far as T can remcmjer, I sugccsted to Colonel Turnei ihai he should have a subaltern offi:cr to assist liini. As far as I can •eineinber, the suggestion came from lie and not from Colonel Turner. On ,his Mint I think Colonel Turner was vrong in his evidence. AVo ciscitssed ;he question of appointing a fubsiltern ignin on Decemher J, and I . told lum ,hal. I would suggest that one be appointed. I discussed telephone coinliunication with Colonel Turner. 1 ,ol<l him that I considered he should lot be left "in the air" at any time. Re.. should lie in touch at all times villi the mainland, and not dependent ,n the telephone, alone. My .suggestion was that in the meantime, they should be in touch by visual .'-gnalling vith the mainland. I may mention bat. I also discussed this on December > with District Headquarters, rnd Disriet Hendmiarters agreed with my million. If Colonel Turner rn.uired signalling apparatus it would be his lutv to apply to District Headquarters : or it. The inquiry was adjourned.

The library of Dr. G. Ernest Morrison. of Peking, who was appointed political adviser to the Chinese Republic in 1912, was purchased by Baron Iwasaki. the Japanese millionaire shipbuilder, banker, mine and dockyards owner, for £35,000. It contains books o'i China in every language. The library will be transferred complete to Tokio, and will jetain Dr. Morrison's name. Dr. Morrison had begun this collection before the Boxer rising in 1900 and. it was during the sortie from' tho British Legation at Peking to cause a diversion, and incidentally to see if his house and library had been damaged that he got a bullet in tlio thigh. He naturally claimed compensation for the damage done by the Boxers. The library has been selected with creafc care, and, as is usual m such cases, has been a good inyn<-t-I ment. Dr. Morrison is an Austrol':'".

Sir .T. Madden. K.C.M.G.. etc., I.i<Mi'<>n-nnt-Governor and Chief Justice of Victoria, when delivering judgment in a case in which nil inferior substitute had bpnn pushed as "just as irood" ns SANGER'S FjOOTjATPTT EXTRACT, said with regard to the GENUINE SANDER EXTRACT: "Whenever ail article is commended to the public by reason of its Rood qualitv. it is not ptrmissiWo to imitate any of its features." When osim: a medicine it is "Bood miality" that too want, and SANDER'S EXTRACT has the endorsement and approval of tho highest Authorities. Inhaled, nnolM locally, taken on (sntrar or in wnter a., directed, SANDER'S EXTRACT is etiuallv beneficial because it is specially Tefined and prepared by Sander's process and contains no harmful by-effects. Use' SANDER'S EXTRACT only when you desire good and lasting effects; no ''just as good.*'—Advt.