M.P.& WAR SERVICE

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 30, 30 October 1917, Page 6

M.P.& WAR SERVICE

CASE OF MR. P. C. WEBB

PETITION BY HIS CONSTITUENTS

THE APPEAL DISMISSED

An. appeal for tho exemption from military 'servioe of P. C. Webb, M.P. for

Grey, was heard by the Third Welling-

ton Military Service Boa-d yesterday. iL'he appeal was made by constituents of Air. Webb's electorate,. and it was distaitssed. The buard decided that Mr. Webb should go intp camp on December 12. The board !onsisted of Mr. H. J. Bes. >i<sk, chairman, Mr. -M. J. Mack, and Mr. A. O'L. Comidine. Captain' Baldwin represented' the military, and Mr, J, AT Combs, M.P.,' appeared in support of the appeal. Mr. M'Combs said that he had laid an appeal on behalf of Mr. Webb's election committee, and ho produced tho Authorisation for doing so. The chairman: What is Mr. Webb's fltfo? Mr, M'Combs: About 31, I think. The military representative: Isn't Mr. .Webb hero? i Mr. M'Combs: No. I. can: 6end for him."

The" military representative: I would be as well,. I think. • The ohairman: He is eingle, I believe. Mr. M'CombsYes. Mr. M'Combs said that he had petitions from 2000 of the electors of Grey. •The petition "had been (done rather hurriedly," and since then he had received* a number of telegrams saying that there were-further signatures. The chairman: What is the ground of the petition; undue hardship ? Mr. M'Combs: It is stated there—public ,-Interest.' Mr. M'Combs said that Mr. Webb was the only member of Parliament who was ■a miner, and the only member expert in mining matters. Mr. M'Combs called John' Arbuckle, of Runanga, secretary of the New Zealand Coal Miners' AstO; ciation. . Captain Baldwin: Are there any miners In Mr. Seddozi's' electorate? 'Witness: No. Captain Baldwin: Any in Mr. Colrin's electorate? , • Witness: Perhaps one or two. Captain Baldwin: It comes to this: that ...a member of Parliament should, not go .if he-has special qualifications. Examined by Mr. M'Combs, the wit- . ness - then stated that Mr. Webb had worked in mines, and Was regarded by miners. x as one who thoroughly understood their needs. He had sgsured reforms for miners- and had his advice been taken the Huntly disaster wonld not have oconrred. At the last election •Mr. Webb's constituents expressed the • wish that Mr. Webb should remain here • t(j represent Ahein, and the. vote of the ' Soldiers in camp had been a 8 to 1 majority for Mr. Webb. Mr. Mack,: How do you. know, unless the figures have been published? , Witness: The figures have been 'published, in Hansard. Witness said that the provisions made .in the Minfe Act for the safety of miners 'had not all be provided. Captain Baldwin: It would seem strange that is iB still necessary to have a representative in Parliament to urge this Department to do its obvious duty. Hera is a statement that had Mr. Webb's suggestion been given effect to the Huntly disaster would not lsave occurred.

Mr. Considine: Then apparently the Government has not taken any notice of what lie said. Mr. M'Combs: The Government waited till after the disaster occurred, and it did in 1914 what he urged it to do in 1913. ■ Witness said that- miners frequently had to complain of faulty things in mines, and reports were made, but such reports did not roach members of Parliament. The miners made tlfelr representations to Mr. Webb, who, being a practical mine®, .was able to make other mendjers see the position. The Mining Act was as good as they now found it ylargely owing to-the efforts of Mr. Webb. Captain Baldwin said that in view of .statements made he wished to call a ■witness from the Mines Department.

Mr. M'Combs: Well, we have definitely stated it, and we are prepared to prove , CaptainVßaldwin: That neglect is going on still? Mr,(M'Combs: Yes.,' Captain Baldwin: Even though Mr. Webb is a member of Parliament? Mr. M'ComTJs: And'still pressing for it. This shows the need for a.practical representative in Parliament. ' There are thirty-five representatives of farmers in _ the House to . press the claims of farm-' .er6j ; an'd they do so. . < The ohairman: I hope they are there .to represent the wholo of tho pesple. ■ Mr. Considine: You are a practical ■miner? . ;Witness: Yes. Twentv years' experience here .and.in' Australia. Mr. Considine: Well, suppose yvu mako representations, will they not be carried out? Witness:' Not always. We ho.ro reports that are. not given effect to. ■ The chairman: Suppose Mr. Webb resigned his seat, wo lid the miners be •without representation?' Witaess: We would have to run the risk" of- not getting another man who has the confidence of the miners as Mr. Wobb has. . .Captain Baldwin: Is Mr. Webb the only man in New Zealand with tho confidence of the miners? ■ !. The chairman: You are not urging sectional representation, are you? Because if you are, the blacksmiths, the butchers, the bakers, tho carpenters, and the grocers should have it. Mr. M'Combs: Do you know that on many occasions when mining matters have been under consideration the Minister of Mines has sent for Mr. Webb? Witness: Yes. Captain Baldwin: How can you say? Why not call tlie man who sent for him ? Mr. M'Combs: .Who better than tho witness, who is an inspector and secretary of the Mjners' Union. Captain' Baldwin: Why not get the man who sent for him ? - • Mr. 'M'Combs: Messenger I Ask the ■ Hon. Mr. Mao Donald if he will come here. . ' The chairman: Tako the seamon. They have not a representative at all. Probably their occupation is the most hazardous of all. 1 Mr. M'Combs: Thero is Mr. Fletcher, Mr. Poole -— One of the board: Mr. Harris. ' Mr. Mack: Why shouldn't Mr. W.pbb sign the undertaking to, work in tho mines during the recess—the same as the shearers? Mr. M'Combs: As a matter of fact ho was making arrangements to work in ' the mines last Captain Baldwin: Do you want him exempted as a member of Parliament or as a mining expert? Witness: As a -member of Parliament .with his expert knowledge of mining. Mr. Mack: Is there any reason why Mr. Webb should not take tip your duties as a mining inspector and you could go back and -work in the mines? . Witness: The position is that I will be going back in any case, and Mr. Semple will be taking over my duties. Captain Baldwin: You say Mr. Webb ■ got practically a block vote of the miners ? Witness: Ye 3.. Mr. M'Combs: Do you know that tTr. I Webb undertook to look nfler Mr. Setldon's electorate during Mr. Seddon's , absence at the front? Witness: Yes, he did. The Hon. Mr. MncDonnld attended, but before he could be caller! he had to leave' for a Cabinet meeting, and the case 'was adjourned till nfternoon. In the afternoon Mr. M'Combs stated that Mr. Webb's personal appeal would be withdrawn. Mr. Webb had been reluctant. to appeal in person. Mr. M'Combs read tlie following telegram from Denriiston, which he said gave B good idea of the contents of other telegrams received:—"Miners appeal for tho exemption from military service of P. C. Webb. It is imperative we fliould have one practical miner to represent the miners in the House." The chairman: Arc a mnn's constituents bis master—his employer?

Captain .Baldwin: I was going to take that point! Mr. M'Combs: Strictly speaking, perhaps not; but the case is on a level with a case whero a district appeals for a doctor. ■

Tho chairman: Still, tha caso as to "employer" is hardly the same; The members of a district pay the doctor. Mr. M'Combs: If they get sick, but they appeal as a district, irrespective of that.

Mr. M'Combs said he wonld not like to think that Mr. Webb was less essential than a policeman or a minister of religion. The chairman (after further question-, ing): May we take it that, as far as Mr.' Webb himself is concerned, he is quite willing to go? Mr. M'Combs: Well, I may say that Mr. Webb was very anxious to organise that tunnelling corps that went away. The chairman: There may be an op portunity for him yet. The war may not be over for a long while.

Frank Keed, Chief Inspector of Mines and Inspecting Engineer of Mines, was called by Captain Baldwin. He was told that Mr. Arbuckle had said that certain statutory safeguards provided by the Mines Act for the safety of miners had not been provided. He was asked: Have you disregarded recommendations regarding the-safety of miners? Witness: "Never." Almost invariably he had supported recommendations by the inspectors. Captain Baldwin: Has the Department sufficient competent officers to look _to the safety of miners without the assistance of Mr. Webb?

Mr. I?eed: I consider our inspectors are competent, otherwise they would not be where they are. j Captain Baldwin: Are they men of practical experience? Witness: Yes. Replying to a further question, witness said: "I say that Mr. Webb is an experiepced man with a thorough knowledge of mining, and that he is a useful man to have in the House. Ido not say tha safety of the miners will bo jeopardised if Mr. Webb goes away, but J sny that he is a valuable aid to the Department in mining matters."

There was no other evidence, and the board proceeded to arrive at a decision. "We . see no reason," the chairman announced, "for granting the exemption. The app'eal'will be dismissed, and he. will be granted leave till December 12." MAY RESIGN HIS SEAT Mr. Webb, on being asked what he intended to do in view of the decision of the board, stated that his position was quite clear. He could not go to the front and at the. same time represent his constituents in . Parliament. He was convinced, and it would be very hard to shake his opinion, that tho miners ought to have someone in Parliament to look after their interests, and such being the case he would probably Tesign when the session was over in order, that his constituents might be able to elect someone el6o to 6peak and vote for them in the House when matters concerning their welfare were, under consideration.