SECOND DIVISION

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 23, 22 October 1917, Page 6

SECOND DIVISION

MEETING OF PROTEST LETTERS FROM PRIME MINISTER AND SIR JOSEPH WARD A mass meeting called by the Wellington branch of the Second Division League of Hew Zealand, was held in I.ho King's Theatre last evening, the seating accommodation being; weYt taxed. The chair was occupied by Mr. ]). Skinner, who was eupportod on (.he platform by Mr. R. A. Armstrong, president of the league, Mr. C. H. Chapman (secretary), and Dr. A. K. Newman, M.l'. Initially tho chainnan said that the meeting had been called by the executive of the league to protest against the Government having failed to make adequate, allowances and pensions for soldiers of the Second Division, who had to go to tha front, and their -wives and dependants. When the '.eague hml first approached members of Parliament they had been promised support, but Parliament had not gone as far as tho league desired. Hβ read apologies from the Hon. A. L. Herdman, Measrs. T. M. Wilford, E. Fletcher, and E. A. Wright, M.P.'e. Mr. Armstrong was called on to propose the first resolution, which was as follows:— That this meeting of citizens of Wellington, convened by the Second. Division League, cannot agree with the Ministerial statements which give rise to impressions of Hie possibilities of an early peace, and it urges the Government to resolutely refuse to be pressed by financial interests into any slackening of its duty to the cation, to tho wives and dependants of our soldiers, and to thoso who are maintaining New Zealand's honour in the field of war. Mr. Armstrong said that the Prinio Minister Tiad recently reaffirmed what ho had said at tho outset of the war to the effect that New Zealand would carry on to the last juan and the last shilling. The lost man was now well within sight, but what about the last shilling? They felt that that last shilling was weighing on some of tho politicians. When a young man, he thonght ho had heart disease, J>ut the doctor had told him that his heart was sound, and that ho was suffering from indigestion—tho hearts of the politicians were sound enough, but they wero suffering from indigestion over that last "bob." (Laughter and applause.) If they passed the resolution unanimously it might act as a tonic and teach them to know that equality ot' sacrifice must apply-to the whole country, even with the last shilling they talk about. A lady asked if they were referring to the interests of the Second Divisiion only.

Mr. Armstrong said that the motion referred to the interests of all soldiersgone, going, and those still to go. It was shocking to think that wives were being given a paltry 3s. a day and children 9d. per day asked for Gs. a day for the wife, and Is. Gd. for each child. Dr. Newman's Views, Dr. A. K. Newman said that the sneer going round was that tho Second Division league was cold-footed and did not want to go to tho war. With. 9500 married men of the Second Division who had already gone forward, ho could hardly conclude that they were the only bravo men in the Second Division. If ho wore a married man of military age he would think very seriously about uoins away without the Government provided adequately for his wife and children, and if his son, who had gone to tho front with his Wessjnsr, had been married, ho would not have gone without his wife and children being provided,for. As it was, the 9500 married men who had already gone were to be put on the same ground as the Second Division, and from December 1 would be given tho same allowances as the rest, it was the duty of every man to see that his wife and children woro properly and decently provided tor. There was plenty of money in .Now Zealand to make such provision. The mea who were to bo balloted for immediately would not go into tauip until trie uuu of March, which gave three months for medical examination, in order that a luiui miglit not bo placed in the position oi having disposed of his business, only to find himself unfit, lt was known that men were allowing their wives Us., and sometimes 45., on of their ss. a day—a I sacrifice that should not bo allowed. It was ridiculous to say that Is. a day was I enough pocket-money for a man on active service. A voice: Wliero can he- spend it? Dr. jS'owinau:- If you'd been there — The voice: I havo been there! (Laughter.) Dr. .Newman said that he, too, had seen tho boys in tho trenches and hospitals, and could say that Is. a day did not go far. Ho hoped that tho next session of Parliament would see tho fnd of the war. Tho first lot of the Second Division to go into camp wouid not be a large one, and the ' reinforcements would not bo as largo as they had sent in the past—it must bo remembered that the young men wore coming on every day, and as soou as they were twenty Voices: It's a enamel They're too young! Dr. Newman: Why shouldn't young; men of 20 go to fight? A voice: "They're too young!" "Is that what wo rear our children for?" Dr. Newman said that every nation iooks to her young men as the best fighting material. It should be remembered that they were given a full six months' training to inure, them to the hardships of fighting before they went forward. Xt may be, 100, that the war would end next year. A voice: Not while certain people are making profits! The speaker, continuing, said that speaking with a closer knowledge than most of those present, ho teiterated that it was possible that the power of Germany would be crushed before the Second Division got into action. All he held dear was with the Artillery in France, and ho hoped tho war ivouid end tomorrow. The resolution was carried with one dissentient.

Duty to the State. Sir. Armstrong then moved— That this meeting expresses lie strong disapproval of the failure ot Parliament to provide adequate separation allowances for the depen-. dants of soldiers, and urges upon the Government, in- the name of common iustice to those who have suffered and those who will be Killed upon m the future to suffer the breaking ct home ties for the protection of the State, the necessity of reconsidering the Uowuiees for soldiers' dependants Willi a view to bringing down a new scale in accordance with the piono"ils of the Second Division League, v?z Cs. per dav for Hie wife and Is. 01 per day for'each child such proposals in the opinion of this meeting S in absolute minimum iipon which the dependants of our soldiers I n decently maintain themselves. 1,, movin-'the above, Sir Armstrong J that tTw blame for making madeouata 'provision for soldiers' dependan s n on the Government and Parhaniont. Tie mcrntew were elected to attend to t\ dr ntereste, and if Hioy did not do „ t was their duty to call tlieirjtlenf,?on to it. The Stale was not a bogie to hi sooken of with bated brenth-it was tto people. So, said Mr. Armstrong, i niy particular class were to blame it Ztion They could scarcely do hat, te voto-17 to 7-of the other day, showed hat the Government was not inclined to vote itself out of office.

Letter from Mr. Massoy. After once more reviewing the proposil i of the Second Division,, Jlr. Mm6tro>>" rend U '° followil,g lMev lroln M,• Mnssey, dated October l'.h\Z sir.-! have to acknowledge the receiut of your letter of tho 18th instant, n which you ask by direction of your executive for an explanation ol the statement made Iff me •« Parliament to the effect that tho Second Division League "was not playing the game." Without admitting tho right of any organisation to call upon mo, or any other Minister, for an explanation of any statement, he

may have made, in tho House, or out of it, 1 am willing on this occasion to comply with your request. First of all, leL me say that I.fako no objection to your league approaching ilinistcra or members of Parliament by deputation; but 1 do object to what appeared to be coercive tactics which were employed prior to tho pensions leji3lation and proposals lor allowances beincr placed before the House of Kepresentfttves, and even since then, at a time when the finances of the Dominion, with a falling revenue and rapidly-incfoasin.q expenditure, were causing tho Government very serious anxiety. Tho Government proposals involve an actual expenditure for twelve months for wai pensions or .£{Bl.ooo, and .£1,157,000 for allowances, making" a total expenditure for pensions and allowances of Xl,fiH,oeo. It should also be remembered that this expenditure will steadily increase so long as the war lasts. "The estimated annual liability at tho end of September, 1018, for pensions at the present rates would be ,£823,000, an<l under the. Government proposals J; 1,063,000. Tho estimated annual liability for allowances at the end of September, 1918, at present rates, would be .£910,000, and under the Government proposals for wives and children, .£2)017,000. Arrangements have also been made, by the setting up of a Financial Assistance lionrd, for tho payment in cases of hardship of rent, interest, insurance, rates, taxes, etc. A widening of the regulations in i7»cam other directions is also contebipiiiied, and tho increasing of tlio maximum assistance from £2 to .£3 a ween. ±\o otuer country has ever made sucii liberal provision for its soldiers and tnuir dununcmnts ad Uua been made by 1 iXetv Zealaud.

"Tuke, lor instance, the case of a privato soldier witn nay at 355. a week, 21s. per week allowance l'or hie wife, and 7s. per week: tor eacu child. In sucii cases Uio soldier's allotment to his wife is irfuaUy not less than 21s. per week, uud very generally 2bs., so that & soldier's wife with ihree children should have in hie absence at least £3 Ss. per wui'k, besides the possibility of help from tho financial Assistance Board. In tiie case of a. private soldier's death his widow, if she nad thrco children, would receive at least £'A 10s. a week, and tho widow may he entitled to a further 15s. a week if her etandard of living justinea the extra grant. "I know perfectly well that no money payment can compensate for tho sacrifice that many of our soldiers and their relatives have been called upon to make, and I am certain that if it could be done with safety both Government and Parliament would like to make even better provision than that which has been made up to tho present. But what I object 10, and what I had in mind irhen 1 expressed the opinion that the league, apart from the Second Division itself, was not playing the game, were the attumpts that were being made to use political infincnSe and the implied threats contained in telegraJM and resolutions at public, meetings oi jjolitical punishment awaiting membera of the Government and members of the House who preferred to* act according to their own ideas of right and wrong rather than obey tho dictates of the league. This is what I think was not playing the game, and I am quite sure a large proportion of the public agree with me. "Yours faithfully, "W. F. MASSBt." Referring to Mr. Massey'e reference to leaving tho Second Division's claims to tho conscience of members, Mr. Annstrong said that tho Prime Minister should havo done that when he held four caucuses in the one day. •Hβ should havo done the same as he did in tho caso of the Licensing Bill, which he left to tho dictates of members' consciences.

"A Laudablo Work." Mr iTinstrorig then read the following letter from Sir Joseph Ward (dated October 2fl):— "Dear Kir,—l am in receipt of your letter of tie ISth instant and have noted the contents of- Bame. I am, of course, responsible to my constituents, and to them only, for any statements mado by me in the House, but, though it is not usual to reply to criticisms that may be sent to one, still your league has beou so active in the laudable work of representing what it believes _ to be the pension and allowance requirements of the Second Division, that I have pleasure in replying to your letter. "First, let mo say I did not etato at any time during my remarks that tho Second Division League was not playing the game. What I did say—and I made it clear that I was giving my own opinion only—was that if the Government, having gone in its proposals as far as it was possible for it to go financially, was to havo a pistol put at its head or was lo bo driven at the bayonet's point by tho men of the Second Division, .then it would be necessary for the House either to provide further increased taxation or elso to tell the Second Division to stay here. There is no change in the position that enables me to alter the opinion that I then expressed. I spoke without offensivenes3 of any kind and conveyed what, in my judgment, was, considering- all the other financial obli. gations, the actual position.

'I believe that no money value, however great it is, can recouipenao tor tko loss of individual life or the lives collectively of the men who make the supreme sacrifice, or, indeed, for a partial sacrifice, which means physical disabilities as the result of carrying on this war. Tho fact remains, however, that no country in the world could take part in war at all if the equitable money value of lives had to be provided, for the obvious reason that the financial burden would bo an impossible one. "The question the Government had to consider was how far it was possible to go to make full and fair provision for soldiers, their wives, and other dependants within the limits of tho financial, capacity of the country. The pensions' and allowances submitted by the Government to Parliament are admittedly the most advanced—and by that 1 mean the most liberal—in the world, and no one, certainly not mysolf, would grudge our doing a great deal more if there was auy royal road financially lo enable : it to be done.

"There is no such, royal road known to the world excepting by making the necessary provision either by further borrowing or by further taxation. The demand made by the Second Division League for increases in some directions in the pensions and allowances is at present beyond tho financial capacity of the country to meet without increased taxation or borrowing. The theory that we caa borrow another million or two for this purpose unfortunately cannot at present bo eutertained, for tho reason that the borrowing already made, with the authorities to-be used during this year, amounts to .£(17,335,000, and if the war goes on for another year after the end of July next it will involve further borrowing to the extent, as far as I can judge after close examination, of about .£40,000,000.

"As Minister of Finance I cannot in the circumstances—nor do I believe that any other man in my position would— lightly add further to the borrowing of the country, at least until we know where we are after the end of July. To givo the further amounts for which the Second Division League is asking means that they must be obtained out of revenue, and that can bo provided at present by taxation only, not by borrowing; and, in my opinion, tho taxation necessary can be got only by adding greatly to tho cost of living. That, of course, requires to 'be strenuously resisted by orory well-wisher of the country. "I have given you a brief outline from the point of view of tho Government of the heavy responsibilities upon its shoulders to make provision for carrying on our part of the great war, with the certainty that, at the end of tho war, some further millions—how many I cannot say —must be obtained to help to develop and carry on the affairs of tho Dominion under tho altered conditions in the interests of every class in thu community, which, of course, includes the members of tho Second Division and their families; ami it is inovitablo that at present there must be j considerable care exercised, not only by the Government, but by everybody in tho Dominion in allowing tho financial burden to become so great that extreme readjustments after the war may be forced upon the country.

"\Vitli the whole of "the members of the Government, and I am sure of Parliament, too, I am as ready as anyone clso to go as far as possible and do all in my power for our citizen-soldiore, present and future, but many things asked for, outeido those in which your league is specially concerned, are unfortunately almost impossible of accomplishment at

tho present lime.—Yours faithfully,— J. G. Ward." Mr. Armstrong pointed out that Sir Joseph Ward had referred to the work of the league as "a laudable work," and stated that he did not say that they were not "playing the game." If more money were needed to meet, their just demands, let additional taxation be provided, but r.ot so as to increase the cost of livinglot the Government take it out of tho wealth of tho country. A voice: Take it off the hire of transports!

There had been no threatening at any oi their meetings. They did not believe in threats, but believed in argument. 'J.'hero was no justice in the sweeping condemnation of the Second Division by tho Prime Minister. He spoke of "bargaining." What th«y had proposed was discussed fully, in open conference, and all they were asking for was a fair tiling. If bargaining meant obtaining propel' provision for tho wives and children of soidiers, then hjjjook no shame in eiich bargaining. Mr. Jfassey's statement about the leaguo was a distinct insinuation of disloyalty, and that 'hey did not want to go to the war.

A woman's voice: Well—some of you don't, you know!

If it came io let the Ministers hand in their salaries. (Laughter.) They must make their complaint now. They were in the grip of a military system, and once they go into uniform, the voices that are now raised ■will be stilled—ae 6tili as the member' voices after the famous caucuses of October 10. (Laughter and applua?e.) After dwelling upon the fact that no sacrifice of wealth could equal that of a man •who gives his life to his country, Mr. Armstrong said that the league had never done anything underhand, and had played the game right through. They were,' perhaps, in the position of Mr. Thomas Bracken, when ho wrote the lines—

Oh, God, that men could see a little clearer, Or judge less harshly where they cannot see; Oh, God, that men would draw a little nearer to one another, They'd be nearer Thee —And understood. Mr. C. H. Chapman, in seconding the resolution, recounted the good the league had already done, tho changes which it had helped to bring about in the fixed principles of Ministers; and besought all present to join tho league. Again the resolution was passed with one dissentient. ;"' ! ,

Between 7.30 and 8.15 p.m. ft string orchestra, composed of the pupils of Mr. Tanner, played a number of selections.