THE PUBLIC SERVICE

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3165, 17 August 1917, Page 5

THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PAYMENT OF BONUSES GIFTS TO HIGHLY PAID MEN THE COMMISSIONERS DISCUSSED In the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon the Hon. G. W. Russell tabled tho annual report of the Public Service Commissioners. ' Mr. H. G. Ell (Christchureh South) asked tho Minister what was tho attitude of tho Commissioners towards tho employment of n'etunicd soldiors in tho Public Service, and especially in tho Post Office. He believed that tho Department was employing very young' boys as lottor- ■ carriers, to tho exclusion of returned anon. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) asked questions about tho war bonus. His point was that tho Government root pay a bonus to men who with and overtime earned the sum of .£315 a year. Ho suggested that the rule should be that tho bonus be payable to all paid at tho rate of .£313. • This would allow men to bo paid for their overtime and receivo the bonus as well.

Sir Joseph Wand (Minister of Finance) said that (ho bonus of .£400,000 was absolutely defined. It waa to bo paid only to thoso receiving payment of not more than ,£315 a year. It would not be possible to adopt Mr. Voitoh's proposal. It would happen that men would receivo tho bonus who wero earning as [much as £50 or ,£GO a'year in overtime. ■Ho did not considor that there should •bo any grievance in the Servico about it. In tho opinion of tho Government, and certainly in bis own opinion, ,£315 a ■Tear, was a sufficient income for a man to livo upon. In tho working out of the grant of a bonus certain incongruities must occur. Mr. Lee: Nona of this money will bo lised for special service? Sir Joseph Ward: No. Mr. Leo: It was last year. Sir Joseph Ward said that none of the £100,000 voted had been given in this way last year. Sir John Findlny (Hawke's Bay) 6aid that ,tho principle of differentiation as between, married mon and single men should bo extended further. Tho man .with a large family should receive moro than the man with a wife and no children. Mr. R. A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) said : that he was in complete agreement with the meniher for Wanganui. He held that overtime was paid for extra work, and should not bo computed ns salary. He agreed also with the member for Hawke's Bay that there should be differentiation. Mr. W. T. Jennings (Taumarunui) also "urged the Government to adopt a scheme of differentiation. The Commissioners; Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) asked tho 'Minister how nuiwh longer tho Publio Service Commissioners' were to Temain in office. Ho believed they were appointed for fivo years.. Mr. Massey: I think it was soven years. Mr. Wilfoixl said he would like to know whether they wero going to be reappointed, or whether the House would have an opportunity of turning them out. His opinion was they wore a failure. Some members of the House might think otherwise. . Mr. Hornsby: Not now they don't. - Mrf Wilford said he did not think the f.ommissionera treated the casual men -'fairly. The practice had grown of employing too many casuals in the service, and they did not get the bonus. Sir James Allen: They do get it. Mr. Wilford: T know they don't get it. !And if every Minister in the Cabinet tells mo they get it I will still contradict every one of them. He also said that care should bo taken about giving bonuses to highly-paid officers under the plea of payment for "special services." Payment should be given for some specinl services, but not to officers,in receipt of '.£BOO or £M a year. These men conld well afford to do a little special work fornothing in war time.' Sir Joseph Ward: I have before me the case of an officer in the Treasury Who has been working overtime for four months. Ho is in receint of more than .£315 a year. If bo left- us: we should have to pay a man £fi<X> or .£7OO a year to do his work. Is such a man to receive nothing for his extra work.\ Mr. Wilford: That is one of the exceptions that proves mv rule. Mr, C. H. Poole (Auckland West) said that employees working overtime should get naid for overtime, and should not be deprived of their bonus in consequence.

A Protest Too Late. Mr. ,T. T. M. Hornsby (Wairarapa) said 'that lie would oppose the granting of bonuses or other payments to high-sal-aried officials as had been given last year. Tho House did not know anything about it when tho money was voted last year. Thero was great indignation in the country about 'these gifts. Mr. G. ,T. Anderson (Mataura) said that the speech of the member for Wairarapa would have been more properly made when the Supplementary Estimates were before the House last session. He (Mr. Anderson) had made as vigorous a protest against the item as ho could. He was going to vote against any man receiving more than .£2(10 a year getting a bonus. Certainly no single man earning .£2OO a , year should get a bonus. More assistance might with propriety be given to cadets and juniors in tho service who did not at those times get enough to keep themselves. The Men Outside the Service. Mr. C. .T. Parr (Eden) said that differentiation ought to l)e considered by the Financo Minister. As for the men in professional positions in the service, it was possibly true that they were doini iMi's work, but they should 1m propared to do it in theso iimes. Other professional mon were suffering. Hc'vcntnrcd to say that everv professional'man in the House was suffering by the war. Personally, his incomo this vear would not 1)6 half what it was last year. AVhilo professional men outside the service were suffering loss of income, professional men in tho service need not complain.

Whose the Fault? The Right Hon. W. F. Masscy (Prime Minister) quoted from Hansard to show fiat the Jnct that money was being voted lor special services was very fully ami clearly explained lo the House last year. A sum of ,£IOOO was voted, of which UI2OOO hud been spent. He justified the payment of extra monoy to Civil Servants j-„.. «yrn, ..-orV. Mr. Triir»* bad iw»i'-ed '.£2OO in addition in his salary of £INM. Mr. Homsby: Ho ought to, be satisfied with ,-CIOOO a year. Mr. Masscy 6aid that if the extra work had not been done by Mr. Triggs the Government would have had to pay another man at least ..-CIOOO a year. Mr. Young: Where does the war sacrifice como inF Mr. Masscy said that most_ of this extra work was done bv Mr. Trigss after office hours. Ho worked somo seven or eight hours' overtimo every day,, and hnd at one stare broken down so badly that his medical adviser sent him out of New Zealand for two months. Ho took full responsibility for having recommended the grants to Mr. Triprs and Mr. Reakes, two officers of his Department. Referring to tho differentiation proposal. Mr. Mii-«sey said that it would lead t/i eccentric results if carried to its logical conclusion. It would mean that men with families of seven or eicht should receive more pay than mon with families of three or four. Membore diflhcreed with him. but he insisted that this was so. Thero was no absolutely essential difference between bonus and ordinary pay in this respect. i About Mr. Triggs. Mr. E. M'Oallum (Wairau) said that tho Prime Minister had disclosed most unbusinesslike proceedings. He did not say for a moment that Mr. Trigg3 should not receive .€I2OO. Mr, Triggs was a very capablo officer, doing work worth perhaps much more than ,£I2OO a year. hut ho was paid by the Stale for a jnecial duty, and he was taken from iftat duty to do other work, while ftil! rfrawlng a salary as Commissioner. Mr. Triggs ought to havo been taken from his 'position as Commissioner and given

this.other post at a proper salary, .El'2oo a year,' i f necessary. Mr. Massey: Wo couldn't do it. Ho Is a statutory officer.

Mr. M'Callum said ho would not accept this. Ho protested against the position, in which members of l.ho House wore placed by thceo bonuses being given to high-salaried men without the knowledge of members, and against their visit. The Prime Minister said the matter was explained, but probably this wag in tho early hours of tho morning, when everybody was asleep.' Mr. Anderson: It was in tho afternoon. Mr. M'Oallnm: When nobody was T.ere. An lion, member: You. can't get out of it that way. Members' Responsibilities. Mr. Payne protested that mombors of tho Government wero not tho only men held responsible for tho expenditure of public money. It was all vory well for Mi'. Massey to say that he took full responsibility for tho payment of certain sums, but the Prime Minister was only trie representative of one electorate. All members of Parliament wero held responsible.

Sir James Allen (Minister ! of Defence) said that he hoped the peoplo *of ihe country would place responsibility where it properly rested. It had beon quite truly stated that tho responsibility for these grants was on tho members of Parliament, for Parliament bad voted tho money. Both Mr. Payne and Mr. Hornsby wore (resent when tho matter was discussed and tho vote passed. Mr. Payne, had advocated an increaso rf .£7oo—from JSOO to .£lsoo—in tho salary of tho manager of- the State Fire Office. Ho conld not protest against grants to high salaried men when ho advocated tho payment of .£7OO more to ono officer.

Mr. Payne: Ho is worth it to the State. Defalcations. Mr. G, Forbes (Hurunui) said that the discussion had shown to the Government that if the House was in -favour of grants to officers of the sorvice last year it certainly was not in favour of it this year. He went on to refer to cne or two paragraphs in tho report of tho Public Servico Commissioner on the state of tho Servico, which, ho thought, reflected on the Government. One was tho remark about tho delay in establishing a proper system of account-keßping in the Department. He noticed that the Commissioners complained becauso Hie heads of Departments had not introduced proper account-keeping methods. The Commissioners should have sufficient power to insist on theso reforms being mado. especially as there had been very heavy and serious defalcations.

Mr. J. A. Young vWaikato) also protested against rhe payment of bonuses to highly-paid officials. They wero doing special war service, but there were hundreds of peoplo who were doing special war servico for nothing, ajid neglecting their businesses to do it. Their case vrna not so hard ns that of the man who gave ud his £S a week to talce "five bob a day" as a soldier, and to take also the chance of being killed.

Commissioner System in Peril. Mr. A. H. Hindmarsh (Wellington Sonth) took tho member for Waikato to task for his talk about sacrifice. The member for Waikato had argued in the House that there should bo no sacrifico in civil life, as soon &s some of his constituents wero concerned as to price of butter-fat. Ho considered it "extremely mean" that members 6hould talk in this way under the guise of patriotism. It was "such snuffle-busting hypocrisy." (Laughter.) Ho contended that tho head of a Department should be held responsible when he did not control.his office well enough to prevent such lingo defalcations, extending over a period of years, as had occurred .recently. Such mon should be discharged, or Tednced to ihe status of errand-boy. He mentioned os bid cases tho recent' thefts in the Ment.il Hospitals and Mines Departments. He thought the Commissioners had done good for this country by urging the introduction of such a system of bookkeeping as would prevent the recurrence of large defalcations. He hoped the Prime Minister would bestir himself and not allow the system of Commissioner control to bo discredited. He knew there were memlicrs of tho House who were opposed to it. Mr. Tsitt: Hear, hear.

Mr. Hindniarsh: Of course I can understand a member who would have the 'Civil' Service stuffed with his supporters would be opposed to it. Mr. Tsitt said the Service had not been stuffed. Mr. Hindmarsh: Ob! Stuffed- Wasn't it?' Mr. Isitt: "\Vell, I never heard of it. Mr. liindmaVsh: You should have lived in Wellington, and then you would have known about It. He argued, in conchir sion, that democracy was not safo unless the Civil Service was protected from political influence. Australia had adopted' this system. Mr. G. R. Sykes (Masterlon) advocated a moro equitable distribution of the bonus, to give relief to men with families.

Mr. T. A. H. Field (Nelson) was opposed to tho payment of bonuses to men with big salaries. Mr. D. Buick (Palmerston) said that he was one of thoso who last year had opposed Hie payment of bonuses to wellpaid civil servants, and he was still opposed to anything of the sort. Mr. P. C. Webb (Grey) said that tho whole Service was opposed to tho system of Commissioner control.

Minister in Reply. The Hon. G. W. Russell, replying, said that every position that could be kept for returned soldiers was made available for thom. But ho could not entertain the suggestion that theso men should bo given work now done by messago boys. The education test had been modified, and tho ago limit abolished, as applying to returned soldiers wishing to enter the Service. . His own opinion was that .£3OO was a too high salary to bo supplemented by a war bonus. Members of Parliament received only .£3OO, and no proposal was made lo pay them a bonus. He considered the fimo had come when tho people of New Zealand should recognise their responsibility lo members of Parliament and increase the emoluments that attached to the position of a member of Parliament. Ho considered that members of Parliament, receiving . .£3OO a vear were being kind-hearted in advocating tho payment' of bonuses to civil servants receiving JHWO a year. Ho said that the problem of paying bonuses under somo differentiation scheme was by no means an easy one. Ho would bo very glad to have an investigation made- into a scheme formulated by the member for Mastorton. Replying o tho member for Hult. he said that the Commissioners had been appointed for seven years. Jlo had always'bcen opposed lo he appoint mont of Corumiss.oncrs but fte two years of experience ho had come to the conclusion that somo sort of Commissioner control would be necessary. He did not think it would bo possible to revert to control by the Ministerial heads of Departments. Some expert control of heads of Departments was necessary, outside of that which the Minister could exercise. His opinion was that some Minister would havo to be ••ppointed to accept responsibility for tho acts of the Commissioners, and to -.-xorcise a measure of control over them. It was not correct that casuals did not get tho war bonus. He thought that there were not .many defalcations in tho Service considering tho number of men emploved, and the huge revenues of the country. Some of the thefts had been perpetrated by officers who wore tho very men on whom the Department relied to detect dishonesty.