THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3140, 19 July 1917, Page 6

THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. The Nelson Harbour Board Empowering Bill (Mr. T. A. H. Field) was introduced and read a first time. ABDRESS-IN-REPLY DEBATE CONTINUED MINISTER DEFENDS BUTTER LEVY \ Tlio Hon. W. D. S. MACDONALD resumed th© debate on the Address-in-Iteply motion at,7.30 p.m. He spoke Hist of cue war. There were, he .said, somu -people in the country wlio thought that New Zealand had done enough. Ho would agree that New Zealand had done very well, but ho hoped that New Zealand would not cry "enough" until victory had been secured by xiritish arms. To draw back now would bo equivalent to hoisting the white ilag. ' He had risen to speak on the operaitious of the Imperial Supplies Departinout and other matters connected with produce. Tho Imperial Government had found it necessary to requisition most of our produce, and the fact that twentyseven millions of money had been paid out without any trouble with the producers showed that the arrangement was working well. 'The greatest difficulty facing us was the shortage of shipping. Our worst trouble now was the accumulation of produce awaiting shipment, but (he Government expected some relief shortly. The future of the country must depend on our exports, and if it proved to bo impossible to get proper service from the big shipping combines, the-country would 'have to consider the purchase ol ships. ./I'his was the opinion of very many people in the country.

The Levy. , The cost of liviug had increased l during tho war period. A good deal had been said by way of adverse criticism of the Hoard of Trade, but the matters this body had to deal with were of such a character that they must be handled cautio'usiy. Tho board had been severely criticised in respect of the butter levy. Hut if the Government had not intervened when if did in October, I<J!6, milk and butter would havo soared to famine prices, liepreseutatives of t'ho producers had him asking that they should bo allowed to raise tho price of butter to Is. Bd. per lb., and it was not to stop there. Mr. Wilkinson: What producers wero these ? Mr. Mac Donald: They were representative .men. I can't remember their names. Mr. Hindmarsh: Patriots! Mr. Mac Donald said that if the Government had done nothing the price of butter would have risen to half-a-crown a pound. Mr. Wilkinson: Nonsense.

Mr. Mac Donald said that the, Board of Trade had recommended as part of tho scheme for regulating tho price of butter the imposition of a levy on ail butter-fat. • Chorus of members; Oh, no. l'oui didn't do that. Mr. MacDonaid said that only a few Glaxo factories escaped payment, and some of these had been established lately. The agitation against the levy had been continuous, aud he was not sure that all of it came from the producers. He had already unnouncc-d that the levy account would be closed at the end of June. After that he did not know what wouJd bo done. Now the Government would have to disburse the •£253,000 that had been collected. And although tho farmers had hnd to give up \A. per lb. on butter-fat, instead of receiving the pre-war price of Hid., they would recwvefrom Is. Old. to Is. 7 7-Bd. per lb. So that the farmers were not being robbed, and tho money was going back to tho farmers. Mr. Wilkinson: Their own money. Mr. Mac Donald said that the money was going back into the industry. It was not taxation for revenue purposes at all. All the while the objectors had been protesting against the levy they had never made any single workable suggestion except that the Government should buy the butter at market price and sell it to the people at a reasonable price. The farmers demanded always to be iilowed to get the full market price without any restrictions at all. The board had done valuable work in connection with this levy -scheme. It hnd saved the consumers a great deal, and the scheme had worked well, although the price paid by the people was the highest they ever had had to pay. At any time it was open to the owners of the butter to reduce the local price. Mr. Wilkinson: Ton could get it for Is. 3d. the other, dav. Mr. Mac Donald: You could got butter at lower prices, but I sav that you cannot buy the best brands of butter for less than Is. Bd. Hero in Wellington you can get butter on the Quay for ts. sd„ but not the best brands. Fe declared that it was not true to say that the dairy in-dusti-y was the onl>' one that had been interfered with. A voice: What about beer? Mr. Mac Donald: "Well, wo have dealt with beer through tho anti-"s'houting" law." His last word was that the Government had no desire to do anything to promote disunion in iho country. More restrictions might yet be necessary. All would depend on tho number of men to be taken away from New Zealand.

Morß About the Class Tax. Mr. H. POLAND (Ohincmuri) congratulated the Minister on his speech, but said he sympathised with the Ministor v/lien he was defending the butter-fat lax. He protested strongly against the imposition of the levy upon the hardestworked, most frugal people in the country. He admitted that in later years the Now Zealand dairy farmer had not done so badly, but it was very wrong that this class should havo been singled out for this special tax, for the benefit not only of the poor people but of the rich people in the community. The Minister had defended the Board of Trade, but the result of the labours of this body was nil. The war would bo oeer before the board did anything. Ho strongly advocated more generous pay and allowances and pensions for soldiers.

The Reinforcement Question. The Government had not done its duty in the organisation of the people of New

Zealand for war purposes. Thousands of single men had been exempted because the Governinent had not taken stops to organise iudustry and distribute labour whero it was required. If the proper steps had been taken early in the war there would havo been no need to call upon Second Division men before tho middle of l'JlB. The sons of wealthy families had been exempted because tho Government had taken no steps to provide labour from non-military groups for essential industries. The fact was that the Minister of Defence had been doing two men's work, and he had been so keen to carry out the wishes of tho Imperial authorities in tho dispatch of reinforcements that he had sent forward far more men than were required. The Minister had gono far beyond tlie pledges of the Government. During the last twelve months N'ew Zealand had sent away men in advance of the necessary reinforcement rate, and the surplus had been used to create an extra brigade. An additional 4000 men had thus been placed in the firing line, and the result would be increased casualties and an increased actual demand for reinforcements. Australia had set out in 1916 to provide 16,500 men per month as reinforcements, and had found later that 7500 men per month would suffice. Sir James Allen: What has happened to their Sixth Brigade? Mr. Poland: I don't know anything about that. Sir James Allen: Well, Ido know. Mr. Poland: The Australian Government wore advised that the smaller number would suffice. Sir James Allen: They were not so advised. • They made tho change themselves. Mr. Poland proceeded to say that no family should be placed in a worse position than it! occupied to-day because its breadwinner had gone to fight for the people who remained behind. The pension rate should be brought up to civilian standards. Candid Criticism. Mr. G. V. PiJABCJS (Patea) said that he wished to reply to some of tne remarks made by the Minister of Agriculture. Referring to the butter-fat. levy he said that it was no wonder that tne dairy .farmers were protesting when a quarter of a million of money had be'en collected from them. Other produce had been taken trim farmers at less than market rates, but they had submitted because they considered that they were helping the Mother Country—helping to win the war. The desire of every fanner in the country was that the price of butter in the towns should be kept down, but it should be done on a proper basis. Me considered that the cost of keeping down the price should have been a cliarge on the consolidated revenue.

Mr. Mac Donald: They are all generous thai way Mr. Pearce adTO&itod tho raising at once of a local loan. He believed that money could be obtained at 5 per cent. One reason why the loan should be floated at onco was that men were afraid to invest money at present He was of opinion also that the war should be paid for with loan money, repayable in about 30 years. If an attempt was made to pay the war by taxation it would hainpor industry and eventually hit tho working man. He disapproved of the investment of fivo millions in the British War Loon. It showed that we had been taking too much in taxation from the people. It might be proper for us to havo a reserve in England, but the amount of five millions, seemed lo him to be too high.

Sir Joseph Ward: Not half enough, as a matter of fact, for what we have to do there. Mr. Poarce said he disapproved very much of the excess profits tax, which was inequitable. Ho advocated the taxation of luxuries, mentioning amusements, motor-cars, liquor, tobacco (especially cigarettes), and tea. The National Government had dono. nothing to keep down extravagance, and it was the prevalence of extravagance which was the cause of the six o'clock closing agitation. This early-closing demand was not being made by the prohibitionists, but by moderate men. Ho hoped that if early closing was carried the law would provido that the loss should be borno not by tho hotelkcopers, but by the owners of tho hotels. The laws of this country had oreated a hugo n'onopoly, and theso monopolists should bo taxed.

Mr. Brown: The brewers don't wmit to bo monopolists. Will you five .us tho law to allow us to have more licenses? Mr. Pearco: "The effect of it would be that your hotel property would drop about 80 per cent, in value. That's what you would find." He said that he would vote for six o'clock closing in order to stop extravagance. Ho never had approved of tho anti-shouting law, and results had j.ustified his opposition to it. Ho had heard a moderate man say that if there was one man in New Zealand who had carried it out he should be caught, and put in a museum. It was bringing' tho .law into contempt. Mr. Lee: No attempt is made to enforce it. Mr. Fcarce: I understand that .amo effort has been, made to enforce it. I don't blame the police. I say it is i.ot right to have a law on the Statute Book which it is impossible to enforce. Mr. Brown: Will you vote to abolish it? Mr. Pearco: Yes. I will. Mr. J. M. DICKSON (Chalmers) urged the Government to give early and adequate attention to the problem connected fflii the demobilisation of the troops. He protested against the butter-fat levy, and iisked the Prime Minister to' state without further delay that the tax »i-uld not be levied again. The people of tho Dominion, ho said, were demanding six o'clock closing of hotel bars, and he hoped the Government would not attempt to frustrate the popular will. The House Was entitled to a straight-out vote en the subject. Tho House rose at 11.15 p.m.