THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2842, 5 August 1916, Page 11

THE HOUSE

Tho House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. Tho Might Hon. W. F. MASS MY gave notice of his intention to introduce tlio Factories Amendment Bill- Jlo said tluit tho Bill was- n short ono of only ono clause, an<l ho understood that no amendments would be moved to it. Tho clause dealt with tho setting up of heating appliances in factories. "WASHING-UP" BILL. The "Washing-Up" Bill was received from tlio Legislative Council with amendments, the . acceptance of which' was moved by tho Prime Minister. Mr. STATHAM objected to the clause dealing with tho Green'lsland toll-gate, %it an, ainendmeiit that it bo'not agreed with was defeated on tho voices. LOCAL BILLS . MAN,GAWHERO COUNTY BILL. Mr. I{. W. Smith moved the second reading of tlie'Mangawhero County Bill. 1 Mr. G. V. PEARCE said that the Local Bills Committee recommended that this Bill be not allowed to proceed. The area concerned was hardly big. enough for a road board, and was certainly not big enough for a county council. The second reading 'was agreed to on tho voices. i' In Committee, Mr. Pearco moved that progress bo reported, which, was carried by 21 votes to 20, thus killing the Bill. / THAMES HARBOUR BOARD, i AMENDMENT BILL.- ■ Mr. T. TV. RHODES said that tho Local Bills Committee had been, so cruel to his political "babe" tliat he merely askpd for.'leavo.to bury it decently, and he„ therefore, asked for lenvo to withdraw it. Leave was 1 granted. '- HUTT PARK AMENDMENT. ~ Tho,-, Hutt- Park Amendment Bill, which i proposed to exempt tlio park from .the. paynient of rates, and which the Local Bills Committee had recommended ■ 6hould not be allowed to proceed, was rejected on the voices. ' Mr. Wili'ord, who formally moved the second reading,-said ho did not agree/with thn 'measure.

NAPIER HARBOUR BILL. When the House went into Committee on the Napier Harbour Board Empowering and Vesting Bill.

The Hoii. Dr. M'Nab, in charge of the Bill, said that tlio chairman of the Harbour Board had telegraphed that tho board would have to drop the Bill in consequence of the amendment inserted in Committee requiring the board to Greet a stop-bank along the right bank of the new .course' of the Tutaekuri River. Dr. M'Nab, therefore, moved to report-jirogress. Progress .was reported accordingly, which means that no more will be heard of the Bill this session. - f BILLS passed;

/Tho following Bills were put. through .all their.'stages, . and passed without amendment: Ohristcliurch Rating Agreements Enabling Bill (Hon. Mr. Russell);. Dunedin District Drainage and Sewerage 1 Amendment' Bill (Mr. Statham); Gisborne Borough Gas Bill (Hon. Mr. MacDonald); Waimakariri Harbour District and Empowering Bill. (Hon. Mr; Buddo); Invercargill Athenaeum Bill (Hon. Mr. Hanan); Auckland' City Parka Improvement and Empowering Bill (Hon. Mr. Myers); Wairau Harbour Board loan and : Enabling Bill (Mr. M'Galluin); Wliakatane Harbour Amendment /Bill (Hon. Mr. Mac Donald); Napier High School Amendment Bill (Mr. Brown). Methodist trusts bill.. The Rt. Hon. W. F. MASSE? (Prime Minister) moved the second reading . of the Wellington Methodist Educational and -Charitable Trusts Bill, which (ho said) was a non-contentious measure. It was aimed at permitting the l'rusts Board- to aim at an establishment to meet" tho needs of the children of those who were likely to lose their lives in the /European''war.' " ■ Tho'p'roposal was worthy of support from Parliament. Mr. L. M.ISITT (Christchurch North) said' that, the Trust was originally created by Sir George Grey for European and Maori' children, and this Bill proposed to extend tlie scope of tho Trust's operations. Tho Bill was put through all stages and passed.. ' -

POSTPONEMENT OF ELECTIONS

MANY STRONG REASONS

NO DISSENSION IN WAR TIME.

The Et. Hon. W. F. MASSEY moved tho second reading of tho Parliamentary Elections Postponement Bill, and explained its provisions. Erior to ' last general, election (he said) the question was raised - as to whether the elections should bo held. He. and his colleagues had some doubt as to whether tho elections should bo held then, but had at longth decided that they ought to go on. Ho thought now that the decision was a right oiie. Things bad changed considerably iu tho meantime, however. Tho war had developed in intensity, and a National' Government had been formed. He believed the National Government had been a success. (Cries of "No.") "Mr. Brown: Tho electors don't think so. .

Mr. M'Combs: They don't want to go to tho electors.

Mr.j Massey: Let me say this to tho honourable member: That if the National Government went to tho country at the present moment they would como back with a bigger majority than has been ever before accorded, to -any other Government. . •'

-Mr. Brown: You would never be heard of again:-' • 1 1 Mr. Massey said that, it would bo simply criminal, imder tho circumstances, to plunge the Dominion into a general election. If tho elections were held tho party issue would be raised, and be was very strongly of opinion that people should not have their attention and interest diverted from the great issues of the war to smaller local issues. If tho question of postponing elections. was to bo raised at all, it should-ho raised now. In New Zealand tho elections jnust be taken during the summer months and in tho slackest timo' of the year for everybody. That slack time was during tho months of November or Decembor._, There was another reason for- postponing elections. Already 50,000 men had letfc 1 New Zealand to figV.t for tho Empire, men were still gojug on. At the end of tliis year over 60,000 men would have gone. It was truo that some wero coming back, but only a small number.' Up.wards of 5000. had arrived up till now. Ho believed wo could go on sending away 2500 men every month until tho end of tho war, oven if it went on until tho end of next year. Could honourablo members suggest that under such circumstancos tho elections should be held at tho end of next year? Ho considered that thero wero sufficient reasons to induce honourablo members to voto for tho Bill, which was being looked for by thousands of people in New Zealand. It was announced that tho elections in England wcru to bo postponed, and although tho reasons for postponement might not bo so strong hero as in England, ho thought they wero proportionately as strong. Tho Liquor Poll, , Mr. A. S. MALCOLM (Clntha) said that a peculiar feature of the Bill was that it would postpone Snot only tho elections, but also tho local option poll. This would mean an enormous gaiu to tho trade; in fact it might mean tho life of the liado. Ho appealed to tho Cabinet to hold tho scales evenly and not to take advantago of tho fact that tho House was practically in tho hands of tho Cabinet. . What ho suggested was that if such an. enormous benefit was to bo gTanted to tho trade, an equal advantago also should bo given to those'in favour of tomporanco reform. Ho asked that tho Cabinet should not forco tho position. Mr. Massoy: We do not want to forco anything. If members aro not in favour of tho Bill, wo will withdraw it.

Mr. Malcolm said that probably members thought that tho postponement of tho elections was necessary, but ho asked that Cabinet should consider his suggestion that some concossion should bo granted to the' temperance party. , Mr. ,r-. VIGOR BROWS (Napier) said that ho was not (joing to volo to increaso tlio term for which lie had been elected. Onco tiiey started extending the Parliamentary term, whe-ro wero they to cud? A,.member: Make it a lease-in-per-petuity! Mr. Brown, referring to Mr. Malcolm's roimirks regarding.tho local option poll, said that the -trado was losing mojiey. Mr. lsitt: And yet they £o on with it! Now or Next Year. Mr. G. V. PEARCE (Patea) said that if reasons- in favour of the Bill woro needed it had been furnished by the speech of the member l'or Napier. Ho would vote ior the Bill. He stated also that ho was absolutely free to vote for a four-years' Parliament. Ho 'had told his electors at every , meeting lie addressed that at the first opportunity he would vote foiv a four-years' Parliament. He did not believe that even in- ordinary times peoplo wanted elections every three years. Mr. G. WITTY. (Riccarton) said that thero was no hurry for the Bill. If. the war was still going on, tht Government could bring down tho Billnext session. What was the need for haste? He.stated that the peoplo wore by no means satisfied with the administration, of the National Government, and were not willing that they should continue in office for two more yoars. ' Hi} would support tho Bill if it were necessary next year,' but he would not support it now. Ho would ask the Prime 'Minister to postpono the Bill until next year. Questions to be Faced. The Right Hon. SIR JOSEPH WAMD said that he was sorry that there efhould W any difference of opinion about tile Bill. : Ho had been consistent on this question. He had been opposed always to tho holding of an election during the war. .Daily' some homo was getting news that sonio m6mber of tho family was either killed or wounded.. Was it to bo put forward as a. proper proposal. that when so many peoplo wero grieving the loss or serious hurt of men near and dear to them a general election should be held? If' postponement was . to bo made, it should be made at once.- If it were not every member of Parliament and. every contending candidate would havo to set to work at onco organising for the election which it was assumed .would take place next year. He would not' bo willing to vote for a postponing Bill' next year. He did not. believe tho ■ peoplo wanted an election, and he could not understand how anyone could bppose it. Referring to the point raised by the member for Cllutha, he admitte'd that from maiiy poin,ts of, view it was desirable that_ the poll should bo taken on the licensing issuo. But if this poll .were taken, so much dissension and excitement would be raised that tho general elections might just as well go on too. Mr. Malcolm interjected that in view o'f tlio'valuable concession. given to'tho trade, something should be done by the Government to hold the scales even.

Sir Joseph Ward said that ' this was a 1 question deserving of consideration. The Government would next week advertise for a loan of eight millions sterling. This fact alone should convince those members who were asking that things should go on as usual that we were living in abnormal times. , No member.in tho Houso could say that tho Government would not have to borrow the same amount next year,, if the war still went on. Every honourable member must know that the present was not a time, for, disturbing the wholo trade' of the country, and generally causing the excitement and dislocation inseparable from a general election. Our aim should be to maintain steadiness. Indeed, if the war went on for eighteen months longer flio question might nriso as to whether the life of Parliament should not'be extended still further. What he would bo strongly opposed to in normal times ho was strongly in favour of now. Reasons for Postponement. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christcimrch North) said he honestly believed that it would bo. wrong to the country to hold tho elections as usual. ]f his constituents thought the elections should be.'held, he could not'lielp that. Ho would give his whole-hearted support to tho Bill. Mr. Ct. J ANDJvitSON (Mataura) said he would'vote for tho Bill. If a party Government had been in office ho would have voted to givo tho people a cliauco of saying whether they were satisfied with their Parliamentary leaders or not.- But tho National Government was now in office, and it would not be wise to put tho Ministry out of office on tho oil ciiainjo of getting better men in their plades. He urged tlie Government to consider tho advisability of reducing the hours for tho of. liquor, in view of the iact that an extension of term for one year was beiug given to the trade. Mr. E. NEWMAN (Rangitikei) said he would hare been satisfied with tho pro-' posal if the condition were attached tliat. in the event of the war ending in six months the Bill should bo made inoperative.

Mr. Massey: Brilain and Canada are postponing their elections. That is a, sign that the war is not going to end just yet. Mr.-.Newman said that it was the opinion of some critics at Home that the war would end-suddenly in six months or so.

Mr. Massey: You must give time for tho men to get back. Mr. Wilford: Hear; hear. But you can do that nest year. „ Mr. Newman said that he would sunport the Bill. ■ Ho urged tho Governuient .to confiider tho plea made By Mr. Malcolm for some consideration to tho people' who wanted to Teduco tho sale of liquor. Ho had ahvays been of opinion that the liquor poll ought not to bo taken at tho samo time as the general election, and perhaps this- would bo a good opportunity for making a beginning,' Ho would suggest this to the Government. Mr- H. G; ELL* (Christcluirch South) said ho <lid not believo a general election should be taken in war time. We had no Tight/ to hold an election while so many of tho electors were out of the country fighting for tho Empire. "A Most Awkward Position." Mr. It. A WEIGHT (Wellington Suburbs) sajd he was opposed to the Bill. Members of tho Honso were in a most awkward position. The House nad refused to postpone ■ local elections, iind now it appeared that members were going, to support tho postponement of tho elections in which they wero themselves interested. He maintained that it would bo possible to deal with this Bill early next session if necessary. Was it right that when tho electious were still a year and a half ahead the House should talk about postponing them? He assured tho Government that the temperance, people would strenuously oppose tho postponement for an indefinite period of tho local option poll. Ho hoped tho House would vote to defer consideration of the Bill until next'session.

Mr. A. HAEEIS-(Waitemata) supported the Bill.

Dr. A. K. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said ho did not like tho Bill. It put members in tho most unsatisfactory position of having to vote to remain in Parliament for a longer period' than that for -,vhich they were elected. Many poople 'coveted their positions, and ho believed that, under tho circumstances, they had no right to extend their tenure of tlie joys of being- members of-Parlia-ment. There was no doubt that many peoplo wero not satisfied with tho National Government, but ho believed that if an election'were hold most members of tho.-Government would be re-elected, find 6omo of tho smaller fry in tho Houso would lose their seats. There wero many men away from New Zealand on active scrvico. but there wero enough here to go on with an election. He did not think the Government should deny to tho peoplo the right to voto on tho liquor question. His chief objection to tho Bill was that ho did not wish to voto to retain longer than the timo for which lie was elected llio emoluments of offico. Tho Hon. .T. ANSTEY (Waitaki) said ho would vote against tho Bill becanso ho could see no reason why the Bill could not bo brought down next session, when, it could reasonably be expected, they should all know much more about what was really necessary. , Liquor and the Postponement. Tho Hon. G. W. RUSSELL that tho remarks of at least ono honourable

member had. been a . little offensive, doubtless not intentionally no, in suggesting that ihoro was somo relationship botwoeu tho postponement of elections and iTio liquor poll. Tho liquor poll had j lever even been, .mentioned in Cabinet as a factor in tho question postponement. .The lion, nicmbcrior Clutlm had been gloriously indefinite as to Iho nature of tho concession ho thought Parliament could make to tho Prohibition party as a quid pro quo for tho extra time given to "the trade.' His speech was perfectly nebulous on the point. The solo reason actuating tho Govern-, ment in this Bill was the desire not to see members reviving political bitterness directly tho House rose next year. That would l>e disastrous to tho country and to the National Government itself. Mr. A. H. HINDMARSH (Wellington South) said that there was no reason why this Bill should not bo postponed till next' year, and therefore jig would voto against the Bill. Mr. T. A. H. FIELD (Nelson) said ho would vote against this Bill because ho was opposed to tho principle of postponing elections. ■ Mr. J. CRAIGIE (Timaru) said that lio did not see why the Houso should dseido now whether Parliament should have another year or not. The last speakers in the debate wero Messrs. M'Combs, Payne, Walker, and Okey. Mr. Okey supported the Bill, and all tho others opposed it. The Bill Passed. Tho second reading was agreed to by 10 votes to 10. Following was tho division list: — Ayes (+1): Allen, Anderson, Bollard, Buddo, Buick, J. M'C. Dickson, J. S. Dickson, Ell, W. IT. Field, feasor, Glover, Guthrie, Haiian, Hanis, llcna.ro, Herdmun, Herries, Hunter, Hudson, Jsitt, Jennings, Mac Donald, M'Nab, Malcolm, Mander, Massey, Myers, 10. Newman, Nosworthy, Okev, Poland, Pomare, R. H. Rhodes, Russell, Scott, Stathom, W. Stewart, ' Sykes, Thomson, , Ward, Young. . . . Noes (16): Anstey, Craiffie, T. A. 11. Field, Fletcher, Himlmarsh, M'Combs, 'Dr. Newman, Payne, T. W. Rhodes, Talbot, Veitcli, Walker, Webb, Wilford, Witty, Wright. ■ - The Bill was committed forthwith, reported without amendments, read a third time, and passed. Tho Houso adjourned at 1 a.m. until 2.30 p.m. to-day. The Prime Minister announced that it might not bo necessary for tho.Houso to. sit this evening.