THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2828, 20 July 1916, Page 6

THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. Mr. R. A. WRIGHT (Wellington South) gave notice to ask the Minister of Education when ho intends to appoint, the school nurses, promised by him while the Education Estimates were under, discussion. Leave of absence for the remainder of the week was granted to Mr. W. A. Vcitch, on account of illness. AUDIT OH PATRIOTIC FUNDS. Sir. .T. T. Jf. HORNSBY (Wairarapa) asked the Minister of Internal Affairs whether he would remit the charges being made to patriotic societies by the department for the audit of their accounts. As much as nine or ton guineas was being charged 'to some societies. The Hon. G. V/. RUSSELL said that by tho War Funds Act it was provided that the audit of all war funds should be under the control of tlie Audit Department. It was impossible for the ordinary Government auditors to overtake tho work.- and consequently the audit of patriotic funds was being done by outs'ido officers, who were paid the ordinal-) fees, bused upon the number of hours actually worked. He was sure that the House would not ask that the Government should pay for the audit of pati-iotfc societies'- accounts with State money, especially as these societies held two millions of money. He would inquire if more was being charged to tlie societies than tlie Government actually had to disburse; and, if so, ho would see that the extra amount was at once paid back to the societies.

WEEK-END TRIPS TO HANMER. Dr. H. T. J. THACKER (Christchurch Eost) nsked the Prime Minister whether he would bring before Cabinet the question of giving week-end concession tickets to Hanmer. At present one of the grievances of tho soldiers at Hanmer was that none of their friends could come to see them. It f.ost now 2Gs. to go ..from Christchurch to Hanmer. The Right Hen. W. F. MASSET said that the matter was one. for Cabinet, ratlier than for any individual Minister. He would be very glad to submit the request to Cabinet. He. would point out, however, that the train did not run all the way to Hanmer. In this respect it was in a different position from Rotonia. to which week-end trips were already allowed. MILITARY SERVICE BILL. AN INCONCLUSIVE CONFERENCE. The report of the conference of managers of the two Houses regarding the dispute as to certain clauses inserted by tho Legislative Council in the Military Ser.vice Bill was brought up by tho minister of Defence. He stated that a number of tho amendments had been agreed tA. but that the conference had been uuablo to agree to others. Amongst tlie amendments upon which the conference had asreed was that providing for the appointment of n I-'inal Appeal Board. As an argument in favour of such an Appeal Board'it had been urged that without it there might i>o a lack of uniformity in decisions. owiri<* to the existence of a number of Military Appeal Boards. Oil this ground it had been argued that, there should be a final Board of Anneal, but it was not intended that the yisht of appeal from decisions of tho Milif n rv Scrvicn Bo.i rd should be allowed without restriction. The right of appeal would lie allowed only in cases in which the Militarv Service Hoards thought it should lie allowed. The conference had been unnble lo a.s to the new clause inserted by the Council providing that religious objectors should be exempted from military service.

Ho moved that the report of tho Committee be agreed to, and that a further tonfercnco be asked for, tho managers for the House at such conference In be tho Prime .Minister, the Hon. W, H. Hcrries, and Mr. Crnigic. Mr. A. S. MALCOJiM (Clutha) sai« lio presumed that the value of the Military Service Boards would lio in tlicir local kuowlcdge. Ho thought that at least the chairmen of the Military Service Board should meet in Wellington. Mr. Allen: That will bo done.

Mr. Molcolm thought that this plan would bo more satisfactory than the proposed appointment of a Final Apjeal Board. Tho motion was agreed to.

CENSORSHIP OF FILMS. Mr. ,7. V. BROWN reported the determination of. the A to L Petitions Committee on tho [letition of J. J. L. Burke and others asking for the establishment of a censorship of films. The report was that tho petition be roferretl to the Government for favourable consideration, and that legislation be introduced immediately in terms of the petitioners' request. "OMNIUM GATHERUM" BILL. Tho War Legislation Amendment Bill was introduced by Governor's Message and read a first time. WAR PROBLEMS

SIX O'CLOCK CLOSING ISSUE DEBATE ON THE QUESTION When the second reading of the War Regulations Bill was callod on, Mr. J. T. M. HORNSBY (Wairarapa), raising a question of privilege, asked that tho ladies' gallery be cleared, in view of the character of tho discussion likely to ensue on the Bill. Mr. SPEAKER said lie bad given, instructions to the orderlies at the doors that ladies desiring admittance should be informed that this Bill was coming on, and that it was not desirable that, they should bo present. Apparently, his instructions had been misunderstood. He had no power, however, to order the clearing of tho ladies' gallery. By this time, however, tho women in the gallery, a very largo attendance,, as it happened, wero already, moving towards, the door.

Mr. J. M'COMBS (Lyttelton) protested that Parliamont was proposing to legislate for all tho community, and (lid not propose to allow representatives of onehalf of tlie community to listen to the proceedings. . ' Mr. .SPEAKER pointed out that he had not ordered the ladies to leave, and that ho had no power to do so. It was left to the taste of the ladies whether they withdrew or not. (Hear, hear.) Presently, not one woman remained in the gallery, but soon afterwards live women eame in, and sat throughout the' proceedings. Enemy Trading. Tlie Hon. A. L. HERDMAN, moving tho second reading of the War Regulations Bill, said that it was purely a War Bill, btft it contained a good deal of; controversial matter. However, it was framed with the idea of doing justice to the whole community, and he hoped that no section would make use of tho Bill to advanco its particular political propaganda. The Bill asked Parliament to empower the Government to deal with tho control or the sale of liquor, and to deal, also, with' prostitution. and venereal dinease. The Bill provided for tho making of regulations to prevent enemy trading. In this matter it was of the utmost. importance— and lie hoped honourable members would realise this—that the Dominions should all follow the line of .policy defined by tho Imperial Government. It was of importance that due regard 'should be paid to the necessity for remaining friendly with nsmtral nations, and especially those neutral Scandinavian nations close to tho doors of England. He believed that a very great and difficult task had been achieved by British statesmen in defining a policy upon- which the Navy could act to stifle German trade, and that they had earned a reputation for justice and fair dealing which centuries of criticism would never destroy. (Hear, hear.) The steps taken by the Imperial Government to destroy enemy trade had been effective. Ho detailed the evolution of the present policy of the British to secure the complete commercial isolation of Germany. As showing the effectiveness of the isolation lie mentioned that for the seven months preceding tho war America imported from Austria and Germany .624,800,000 worth of goods, and that for the months March to September, 1915, exports from these countries to America had dropped to ■£4,400,000. And included in this latter total were jC3,000,000 worth of goods which were allowed to go because they had been already paid for. Mr. Herdman went on to detail the steps taken in New Zealand to stifle enemy trading.

Six O'Clock Closing. "Now, Mr. Speaker," he continued, "having dealt with matters that really do affect.tho safety 9f the Umpire, I propose now to deal with a matter which does not affect tho safety of the Empire, but which is of purely local importance. I refer to six o'clock closing." Mr. Isitt: Oh, yes, it does affect tho Empire. I'm afraid you are a heretic. Mr. Herdman said that lie hoped the House would deal with the Bill in a fair way, and that no. honourable members would endeavour to use the' Bill to advanco their political proclivities. The Government was concerned in the preservation of good order in tho community, and its desire should be to maintain good order without interfering unduly with the rights ol' otlier peoplo. He wished at the outset to make this point-that since the outbreak of war an election had been held. At that election tho question of whether licenses should continue was referred to tho people, and the people" expressed tiieir opinion on tho matter in a very convincing fashion. He wished it to be remembered and generally understood that tho election was held after the outbreak of war, when there were soldiers in camp, when forces were being sent from New Zealand. The war .was in full blast at the time the people expressed their opinion on the question, and they expressed it quite clearly. This being the case, individuals had acquired rights in this country, had acquired property, had invested their money in a business under the belief that they would be entitled to carry on a particular business for three years without molestation. Under these circumstances it would, he said, be a gross injustice if Parliament were to curtail those rights, for if Parliament curtailed the hoars for tho sale of liquor, it would deprive the licensee of his property. If tho House wished to curtail tho hours of sale, tho only fair thing to do would be to compensate tho licensee. Ho had been informed that in England, where hours had been curtailed, tho hotelkeepers had been compensated.

Mr. Isitt: No. They have the right to apply for compensation, but they haven't got it yet.

Mr. Herdman insisted that if hotels were going to be closed early, Parliament should give compensation. "And," lie said, "goodness knows what you are going to pay if you close the hotels at six o'clock." Preservation of Order. lie was interested specially in thifl question us Minister in charge of tliu Police, and ho was interested becattso ho wished to have good order maintained in Wellington aud elsewhere while tho soldiers were going about. He had come to the conclusion that the best way to maintain order was to leave the hotels open as now until 10 o'clock. The police hud found dilliuulty in dealing with slygrog shops, ami there was provision in the Bill to enable the police to deal with these places. At present tho polico had no power (o enter these places without warrant. That power would be takeu tinder the Bill. The police wanted power to prevent women from goinjf into hotels to get drink. He was informed that women often got into hotels, met soldiers, procured liquor there, and took the ioldicrs with them to their establishments, where the soldiers consumed the drink and became intoxicated. Jf tho Government were giveu power to cope with the sly-grog evil, and to keep women out. of hotels, the policc could deal with the. iH'esent difficulty. In fact, ho did not admit that there was any difficulty ut present. existing. In view of tho number of soldiers that had been in the City during tho war period, it was a matter for as-

tonishmeut that so little drunkenness had occurred. The good conduct of the soldiers was veiy much to the credit of the young men of our community. In view of this, why disturb the present condition of affairs The priucipal argument advanced iu favour of early closing was that this wus necessary to protect the soldier. Was he to understand, then, that when a man put on a uniform lie required the special protection of the State? The people who wanted to close hotels at six said that when the soldier put on his uniform he was not to ho trusted. Ho denied this most emphatically. The evidence was that the New Zealand soldier had comported themselves in a way that was a credit not only to New Zealand, but to tile British race. He had, however, issued instructions to the police that they must exercise the greatest care in the, supervision of public-houses. Ou his instructions the Superintendent of Police in Wellington had been going round the hotels personally, acconipanicd by a senior officer, in order that this work might r.ot be left to a constable. Superintendent O'Donovan had had special opportunities for observing the conduct of the men, and he had reported most favourably upon it. Mr. Iferdinan quoted at length from the Superintendent's report.

To Discipline Licensees. What- they ought to. do, he improve matters was first for the Government to have power to control sly-grog selling, secondly to prevent women from getting drink in hotels, except when they were lodgers or women belonging to the. family of the licensee; and thirdly—it was proposed in tho Bill that- shouting should bo prohibited, although ho himself was uod very entlmsiastic about it it was an enormous concession to the Prohibition Party. Iu addition, he proposed when the Bill wa£ in Committee to introduce a new clause which give the police power—a power which they ought always to have—to call "upon a licensee at any time to go before a licensing committee to show cause why liis license should not be cancelled for .misconduct. ~ , Mr. Hornsby: Will anti-shouting apply all over the Dominion' 1 - Mr. Herdiuan: Oh, yes; you can t select one place and neglect another. He repeated that he thought the police should have power to hale a licensee before a committee, and then that committee should be enabled to give the licetise to. some reputable man. . There were hundreds of hotel-keepers who desired to conform strictly to* tho law, but theref was a small section, who would not do this, and therefore the Government should have the additional power ho indicated to maintain discipline. Mr. Isitt: Why don't you endorse the license? ■ Mr. Herdman: Whats the good of that? What you mean is to close the hotel, but I won't do that. We should be able to eject the unruly liotel-koeper and replace him with an orderly man. Mr. Herdman conclude by expressing the hope that the Bill would be discussed without undue feeling; Mr. L." M. Isitt asked if the Minister of Health, would outline the regulations he intended to make in regard to venereal disease. Mr. M'Comfe asked what the subclause relating to industrial organisation meant. * The Hon. A. L. Herdman replied that the significance of this was that it might possibly, happen that tho Government might have to take over an industry and run it. This gave the power to do that as they had in' England. He did •not think it would be necessary in New Zealand, but this -gave the power. , The Secret Scourge. The -Hon. G. w'. RUSSELL (Minister of Public Health) said tlmt this question of venereal disease was so important as affecting tho military, tho civilians, the women and the children, that deep consideration was required for its treatment. That venereal disease was deeply planted in. the country was shown by'the, fact.that, in the six months ending April, 1916, SS soldiers in Featherston and 191 at Trentham were taken to hospital suffering from gonorrhea. During the same period three were admitted at Featherston - and four at Trenthdm suffering from syphilis. Other forms of venereal disease accounted for six at Trentham, making the totals 91 at Featherston and 201 at Trentham, or 292 for til© whole period. Eleven of these' were Teturned soldiers. ,A return also showed that on a quarantine station in one of our- -harbours 90 soldiers were segregated, having contracted the disease mostly at the camps. These were being held till they were cured. Very few of these were returned soldiers. The question he now put to the House was whether these men should be segregated while the women who had communicated the diseaso should be allowed to remain at large and'enmesh _ other innocents in their meshes. Soldiers were no more susceptible to these diseases than civilians, and it was known that the civilian, population was affected to a similar degree. Mr. Russell went ou to say that venereal disease was practically unknown till Columbus returned from America, and it was ■ generally thought that some of the crew brought it back from there, and since 'then it had been endemic throughout Europe. The Contagious Diseases Act, when it was in force in New Zealand, had resulted iu a marked improvement in Christchurch in tho public health, but he did not propose to ask for a - renewal of that Act. He advocated the segregation of women, but also the segregation of men. who were known to be promiscuous in their relations with women. Some ; women s associations had protested against the prospective action of Parliament, but he asked them to ; trust the combined wisdom of the 'Police and Health Departments, as well as of the National Government, which had the highest respect for womanhood. Ho proposed to ask that the "one-womau" brothel should be placed on the same level as brothel with more, than one occupant. His sccond proposal was that every woman suspected of lending aft immoral life should, on a charge of vagrancy, be detained and examined, and if found to be diseased should be detained until cured. In the samo way with men, every man who was a vagrant and diseased should bo detained till cured. In regard to clandestine immorality the problem was very difficult, but he proposed that it should be made a criminal offence for any person not « legally qualified medical man to treat . venereal disease. _ lhis would prevent quacks from getting to work. The speaker went on to speak at length upon the necessity of an educational campaign "throughout tho country in relation to this disease. He Iralievod that in this campaign he would be supported by medical men and the Press, anil he would approve of lectures by male and female doctors to their respective sexes. Finally, Mr. Russell said he could assure the public that a verj careful examination of all tho returned troopships had been made, and the evidence was all against the assertion that any of the more horrible forms of venereal disease found in the East had been introduced into New Zealand. Mr. Russell made it clear that the only persons he proposed should bo segregated were prostitutes and males w no were known to be promiscuous in their relations with women. I lie procedure would be as follows—(1) Arrest as a vagrant without lawful means of support: (2) conviction; (:)) examination; (4) it found diseased, person to be held till cured. All other persons, as, e.g., casunl or clandestine prostitutes, who were diseased, but who had lawful means of support, would not bi> liable to airosl\ but would 1)0 able to obtain free treatmeat at hospital clinics. From Nine till Nine. Mr. 'I'. M. WIT,FORD (Hutt) said that ho proposed to retain his opinion upon early closing until he saw the form the suggestions would tako in Committee. Ho personally believed in Stale control, and thought that in war time tho National Government might have had tho courage to do a big Uiing and take over the control of liquor. He did not believs in local option. He was in favour of a straight-out vote on liquor or no liquor, on a 55 per cent:.'majority. Unfortunately, however, lib had no hopo (Tint there would be any measure of State "OMtrol estaljlislied. He had heard nothing among members about six o'clock closing. There was a good deal more discussion of this question outsido of this House than wiiliin it. TIo was of opinion that hotels were open much too early in (lie morning. He thought hotels i should not bo opened beforo 9 o'clock in tho morning, and as he thought twelve hours was long enough in the day for (lie hotels to bo open, ho would endeavour i when amendments wero beinjr moved to

vote, if the opportunity offered, for hotels being opened from !) a.m. to 9 p.m. But ho did not agree that there was any da-uilkenne.ss among soldiers justifying tho demand that had been made for restriction of hours. He realised the need, for dealing with tho problem of venareal disease,, but he did not agree with all the Minister's proposals. So far as the anti-treating clause was ' concerned, ho would be delighted to vote for it. Ha could not say any mora if ho spoke Cor half an hour. Demand for Efficiency. Mr. C. H. POOU; (Auckland West) declared that tho Altorney-Goneral had shown by his dexterous special pleading that he was a partisan on any question relating to the salo.of liquor. He could assuro the honourable gentleman that the Uill was not going tnrough without some effort being made to improve it. Tho Bill, he thought, should contain some provision for early closing. He, emphasised the importance of the fact that over four millions per year of the country's money was being spent in liquor, to the detrimont of our financial efficiency. He was of opinion that the-' liquor business, which was a very pro- • business, was over-capitalised. Hence the demand for extravagant com-. pensatiou. He denied that tho demand for early closing was being made on behalf of, or in respect of, the soldier. It was nothing of the sort; it was a demand for national efficiency. Mr. ,T. T. Jr. HORNSBY (Wairarapa) said that the people of the country weredemanding that the groat wasto that was going on should be modified. The demand was not coming only, from Prohibitionists. Many people who were not Prohibitionists were asking now for a reduction of waste, nc believed that tho liquor traffic would yet have to be taken over by the State. He 6poko strongly against the proposed regulation of prostitution as tending to degrade womanhood, and said ho would oppose it with all his strength. A Medical View. Dr. H. T. J. TIIACKER- (Chrislchurch. East) said that tho remarks of the Minister of Public Health were good and thorough, but they lucked practical know-. ledge. The war would probably go far to clear up tho position with regard to alcohol and venereal disease, and if this were so then many lives would not have been lost in Tain. He denied that the soldiers needed any special consideration. They were able to look after themselves,.' but if early closing on even anti-shout-, ing were carried the licensees would be--entitled to compensation. Referring to venereal discaso he stressed tho importance of education rather than the imposition of restrictive legislation. The first s'tcp should be to teach physiology to the dhildreu as soon as they were ready to understand sex mutters. They should not l>o frightened, but merely educated. QuaclS should be repressed 'firmly, especially the huge display advertisements in tho newspapers. Two-thirds of the young men of the country who went to ruin through venereal disease were sent there through quacks. Ho entirely agreed t'hat there should be no difference iu iho treatment of a diseased man or woman. Infected persons should be segregated till cured. Mr. J. CRAIGIE (Timaru) supported the anti-shouting clause of the Bill as promoting temperance, which he would always support. He claimed thai on a referendum the people would close the hotels at 6i.t o'clock by a two .to onei majority. Tile people wore at present, wasting" .£4,000,000 a year, and this national \\aste should be stopped. ' Mr. A. HARRIS (Waitemata) strongly favoured early closing and anti-shoutinc as being efficacious war measures. Mr. L. M. Isitt moved'the adjournment of the debate, and the House tosb at 11.55 p.m.